Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Homelander

Lol. At first it was "USSR was a pioneer in the space race, you think they can't make a washing machine".

Suddenly it's "The EU is still buying Russia fuel and lads here are worried about if Russia can make a washing machine".

No-one gives a toss what Russia can or can't make, they're just correctly pointing out that Russia is in a rather serious spot of bother with lack of access to essential western tech and will, in fact, be unable to produce a lot of modern technology, military or civilian, low end and high end.

"Russia can, for various reasons including cultural/societal, bear the sanctions well enough and the west is hurting more relatively speaking" is an opinion I can accept.

"Russia is a technological leader and more advanced than the west in many ways" is utter Hitler Bunker April 1945 level delusion.

declanflynn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294600#Comment_119294600

Jesus wept

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294049#Comment_119294049

FFS! Go back to 'English for Russian Bots' class - you're trying to refer to Comical Ali. Is it just me or does anyone suspect we're being allocated the dumber 'bots'? Bit insulted to be frank.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294459#Comment_119294459

I'll say it again, they'll shrug. They might ask, be told and then dismiss it as nonsense and just shrug again.

wassie

Article in todays Irish Independant on sanctions effect on Russia by Josep Borrell Fontelles - the European Commission’s vice-president, in charge of coordinating the external action of the European Union

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/have-eu-sanctions-hurt-russia-since-it-invaded-ukraine-heres-the-truth-41814337.html

Given its paywalled, heres a few highlights (sorry cant copy full article due to copyright)

2/3 of advanced tech is imported from the west

Some may ask, do these sanctions really have an impact on the Russian economy? The simple answer is yes. Although Russia exports a lot of raw materials, it also has no choice but to import many high value-added products that it does not manufacture. For all advanced technologies, it is 45 per cent dependent on Europe and 21 per cent on the United States, compared with only 11 per cent on China.

Oil industry

Its oil industry is suffering not only from the departure of foreign operators but also from the difficulty of accessing advanced technologies such as horizontal drilling.

On China

As for the alternative offered by China for the Russian economy, in reality it remains limited, especially for high-tech products. To date, the Chinese government, which is very dependent on its exports to developed countries, has not assisted Russia in circumventing Western sanctions. Chinese exports to Russia have fallen in line with those of Western countries.

Food crisis

These sanctions do not in any shape or form target Russian wheat or fertiliser exports, while Ukraine is prevented from exporting its wheat by the Black Sea blockade and destruction caused by Russian aggression. So it’s clear that the responsibility for the cost-of-food crisis lies with Russia, not the EU or these sanctions.

Basically finishes by saying since the West doesnt want to go to war with Russia, it will respond with economic sanctions (which comes at a cost obviously), but the sanctions starting to have an effect which will only increase in the coming months.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294417#Comment_119294417

I flew in Antonovs and Illyushins in the 90s, Im plenty aware what Russia aircraft industry was capable of and not capable of with limited access to western tech. Cue the conspiracy theory guys on here go mental when they learn that.

No "conspiracy theory guys" required. This is really simple: Just like the Soyuz system those antonovs and illyushins(the former being made in Ukraine) were products of the Soviet Union, an entity that was significantly more self sufficient than Russia today. They were their own economy essentially, buying and selling mostly to each other and with limited access to, nor particular want of western tech. That is not the Russia of today or of the past twenty years. Their internal Sukhoi Superjet family uses French engines and avionics(and was still outdated by about a decade). Their latest Sukhoi airliner that was about to go into production had even more western tech involved, so that's a bust for the foreseeable. They could rattle up engines without too much trouble(so long as they avoid western licences) though it would take time, but the avionics, similar to the electronical bits and bobs in the humble modern washing machine, are quie simply currently beyond them. Even their military stuff uses Western tech now. And when their internal systems aren't the most reliable, well an Amazon bought handheld GPS doohickey can be gaffer taped to your top flight fighter bombers dashboard..

They got so far behind in this technology. The Soviet Union going belly up in the 1990's did not help one bit. The 90's was when all that stuff really exploded worldwide and unfortunately Russia, Russia's resources and ordinary Russians were busily being raped by a small gang of criminals, as usual. Then putin took over consolidated the criminals into the ones he liked and squeezed out the rest, gave more scraps from his table to ordinary Russians and gave them a sense of pride again they thanked him for it. Understandably too. Any Russian living through the shítshow of the 90's sees Russia since putin as a golden age by comparison. Any other narrative is a hard sell, especially to that generation.

But you still didn't answer those simple questions. "They built outdated stuff in Soviet times FACT!" is not an answer, but you know that of course. So it's easier to avoid and push the oul "without Mother Russia you're all going to freeze this winter you decadent western pigdogs! stuff. Again it's the all too basic Russian spin.

Curious_Case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294213#Comment_119294213

Ah, so it's ok for you to reference Russian "space exploits" but you don't want to hear about US "space exploits"

You disappoint me, I thought you'd venture down the Von Braun route

Trivia blowing my mind? hardly

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294621#Comment_119294621

Actually he/she's one of the better ones I've come across. Started off easy, tried to look "reasonable", but when pushed the mask slips all too easily.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294641#Comment_119294641

Oh they're working alright Wassie and the sure sign they are is the same sanctions are damn near all Russian media and Russian sympathisers talks about. And they're all running from the exact same script too.

They're hurting you worse! If that was the case surely they'd want that and say nada? They try to garner sympathy with this. Oh but we love our ordinary westerners and you're the one's suffering, it's your corrupt leaders we hate. And Americans. War mongering NATO bastards etc.

The Chinese will help us! When the evidence on the ground shows nope, beyond buying the oil they can't offload elsewhere at knockdown prices. Another popular one is that Russian oil is being transferred in the middle of the ocean to get around sanctions. Yep.

Russia economy is strong, just look at the Rouble! When the fact the Rouble is so strong proves the sanctions are biting.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119292552#Comment_119292552

And for the Russian side, the list of donor Country's and the amount donated is........??????

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294878#Comment_119294878

Well Putinbots would be quick to point out that Germany is donating millions per day for Russian gas and they have a point there. For a nice change. Germany's political class have been compromised, that's pretty sure at this stage.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294627#Comment_119294627

I agree, though I can easily see a scenario where their children and grandchildren will be asking them in future decades "What the hell were you guys up to in 2022? How did invading Ukraine become 'normal' and even justified?".

realdanbreen

Shocking images of Russian savagery on BBC news just now. May the lot of the Russian in hell.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295971#Comment_119295971

That should be "rot" in hell., every single one of them and their apologists around the world.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295971#Comment_119295971

Yes, I was watching. Fergal Keane investigated how eight men from the 'territorial defence' in Bucha were shot in cold blood wearing civilian clothes. Incredibly, one of them survived by faking death and Fergal interviewed him. The BBC also unearthed CCTV of the men being led to the scene of the execution.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296028#Comment_119296028

Yeah, that was grim watching the parade knowing what was going to happen. Full on Nazi stuff.

Bring on the meteor, give the coach roaches a chance. We've blown it.

denismc

Iran has announced it is discounting the price of its oil to compete with Russia in the Chinese Market, Iran exports about 700,000 barrels of oil a day to China vs 1.5 million from Russia.

It will be interesting to see if a price war develops on the back of this as the Arabs send oil to China as well.

The cheap Russian oil may have to get cheaper.

I notice oil is down about 8% today.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293862#Comment_119293862

But maybe not so slowly....a quick disposal of Putin would do two things, One, leave the US free to devote its attention 100% on China and Taiwan, and second, a quick ( or at least, within a decent time frame) it would maybe make China have second thoughts on Taiwan?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295136#Comment_119295136

Doubt it. By having nukes Russia is pretty much untouchable internally. Their system has been designed to lead to where it is. There's arguments about the absolute state of politics in the West but we're being steered in a negative direction by bad actors. For Russia it's a feature, not a bug.

BorneTobyWilde

Ukraine should take out he gas pipes going to EU, Then say, '' no need to argue about that anymore''

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294459#Comment_119294459

I don't think the Russian top dogs even imagined Ukraine holding out for more than a few days ... The invasion force was merely ceremonial , then they though just weight of numbers would get them over the line in Kiev .. there wasn't really a plan for what happens in the event of a long slog , or more to the point after a long vicious conflict ...

Say my name

https://twitter.com/minna_alander/status/1544210600938463232?t=FbwKR_sR88mKSd-dji31ag&s=19

The thin red line is getting thiner because of Ukraine.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119294995#Comment_119294995

Yup , it's going to take Germany ( and others ) a few years to pivot away from Russia , and it definitely seems as if some in their political class are still resisting the change , but once Russia started restricting gas to Germany a couple of weeks ago that was the signal that the relationship was irretrievably bust - implying,hinting generally painting out what COULD happen is one thing , but once Putin pulled the trigger and restricted the gas to Germany that's it , the line has been crossed , and in honesty though it'll hurt ,Germany is resourceful..

( Even if they were unbelievably naive in their energy policy )

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296237#Comment_119296237

It seems they are also completely immersed in Russian nationalist / Putinist propaganda. Invading a large next door neighbour and causing mayhem and destruction seems the most natural thing in the world to them. They believe their own propaganda and lies about Ukraine being a Nazi terrorist state and the 'anti-Russia', to the point where waging war and killing tens of thousands of them is not even seen as controversial.

It's been said numerous times here but it really is a basket case of a country - fit for the psychiatrist's couch.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296237#Comment_119296237

That and assumed only the very top was rampantly corrupt. Take these huge tank storage areas pick clean from the back leave the stuff in the front untouched. repeat that with everything.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296217#Comment_119296217

I'd say they thought about it .. but would it have made much difference, ? What's Russia able to do/buy with their gas money now that they wouldn't be able to do if the pipes were "broken",

And they'd have played into Russia's hand by effectively forcing Europe to take a side , with Ukraine being the blackmailer ,and noble Russia able to ride to the rescue ... So the 2 nordstream pipelines would have been flat out ( I assume that was part of the reason for the timing of the invasion)

Markcheese

I don't believe their military is any where near as good as the Russians thought , but also it's not as terrible as a lot of western commentators are saying ,

Their initial logistics were shocking - but most units only found out they weren't on excercise on the first day of the conflict , and yeah they live in a kleptocracy..

But they've managed to get their best troops to the Donbass - and supply them with staggering amounts of artillery shells ,

The tactics are crude and brutal - they take a lot of logistics ,but they have slowly taken ground , ( and used expendable Wagner group recruits and Donbass conscripts as Cannon fodder ) , shows the Russian military is not incapable of learning ..

mcsean2163

Just reading this. .. https://mate.substack.com/p/siding-with-ukraines-far-right-us

Wonder what the experts here think and what they think of Obama's take from 2015

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/politics/obama-said-to-resist-growing-pressure-from-all-sides-to-arm-ukraine.html

But the president has signaled privately that despite all the pressure, he remains reluctant to send arms. In part, he has told aides and visitors that arming the Ukrainians would encourage the notion that they could actually defeat the far more powerful Russians, and so it would potentially draw a more forceful response from Moscow. 

Manic Moran

Isn't the point of deterrence to very much encourage the notion that they could defeat the opposition?

ZenNature

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296449#Comment_119296449

great idea, lets just in typical American military style ignore how that has worked out in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Vietnam , Cuba , a latter day expansion of China etc etc

Front of class of the American military academy for you , a gift for ignoring reality whilst sounding sophisticated.

Morning shift started?

The more relevant example was when the US helped a collapsing Russia help defeat the Nazi’s.

or, maybe that was a mistake too… possibly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296511#Comment_119296511