Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Curious_Case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256900#Comment_120256900

That's a graphic of the areas of concern.

Perhaps you'd like me to post the 1,000's of words that followed it.

Particularly --

"Ukraine will never run out of 155 mm ammunition―there will always be some flowing in―but artillery units might have to ration shells and fire at only the highest priority targets. This would have an adverse battlefield effect. The more constrained the ammunition supply, the more severe the effect.

As an offset, the United States has provided 105 mm howitzers and ammunition―36 howitzers and 180,000 shells. Because these shells are lighter and have a shorter range, the number of howitzers and shells will need to be very large to provide an adequate substitute".

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256900#Comment_120256900

EU have an army now?

Oh, 1/10 for "Woke Chopping Block."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256055#Comment_120256055

Your profile here on boards probably have a shorter lifespan than a russian soldier in human wave attacks in Bahkmut at the moment,good luck

Gatling

No fighter jets for Ukraine until after the war Ben Wallace.

Poland is weighing up sending mig29s because the Ukrainans are already trained to fly and maintaining them

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1626919270864064514?s=20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257073#Comment_120257073

Makes sense,it takes years to train a pilot on a modern fighter,and Ukraine needs them now.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257077#Comment_120257077

It doesn't make sense though. The training will take a fixed time, the end of the war in unknown. He's basically saying no jets to defend yourself during the war. Absolutely nothing to do with training time-frames etc...

He just doesn't want western jets shooting down Russian jets over Ukraine.

Dohnjoe

Haven't posted one of these in awhile, extraordinary footage as always from this war

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1626692954072010770

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257115#Comment_120257115

Or they don't want Western aircraft being shot down by Russia over ukraine,

Which makes a hell of a lot more sense it would be a huge propaganda coup for the Russians to twist the narrative to Nato jets were coming to bomb Russia

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256825#Comment_120256825

I have seen a lot of talk about ammunition, but nothing about barrel wear and the situation regarding the manufacture and replacement of them.

Australia and France have entered an agreement to have a french company Nexter ramp up production of 155mm shells for Ukraine using explosives provided by Australia, for delivery in first quarter this year:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-31/france-australia-to-supply-ukraine-with-artillery-shells/101909512

Australia has 46 F-18s that are surplus to requiremenst, of which 30 are airworthy. They were due for sale to a US company, but that looks likely to be a dead deal. I suspect Australia doesn't want to give them away, so perhaps the EU should offer to pay something for them to lubricate a deal.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257161#Comment_120257161

By all accounts the Australian F18s were bought by Canada and US firm's several years ago ,the Canadians bought 18 and the rest when or are going to private aggressor squadrons with contracts awarded by the Pentagon

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257077#Comment_120257077

Poland has been vacillating on that Mig-29 transfer for almost as long as the conflict has lasted. I think they keep flying this kite in the hope of a backfill deal where the US gives them something better, for free. Greece are playing this game too, with very little donated to Ukraine but hints about parting with old tired stuff in exchange for free better stuff.

As for training pilots, there is a lot of nonsense being spouted by Rishi Sunak and Ben Wallace as an excuse for them not providing the 30 typhoons they actually don't need and have slated for retirement - 10 in storage and 20 in service. That stuff about not having enough for current needs is a blatant lie, like the pilot training nonsense.

The pilot training taking years is for peacetime and is partly because the UK have insufficient resources due to running down their military. Years is a valid period if you are talking about training pilots from scratch, but it is utterly wrong in the context of training already experienced pilots. 3-6 months is the figure suggested by a Colonel heading a US National Guard F-15 squadron that has trained with Ukrainian pilots and aircraft since the mid 90's and knows their capabilities. Some Ukrainian pilots have actually flown their F-15s.

If this source on Reddit is correct, they certainly were about the UK spares, then there are plenty of aircraft that could be supplied:

There is plenty of Aircraft Ukraine could acquire UK recently retired 30 Eurofighter Typhoon tranche 1, Germany doing the same with their 30 tranche 1and looks like Italy and Spain will be retiring their tranche 1 Typhoon too, about 100+ tranche 1 Typhoons all up.. Germany also has about 90 Tornado jets they are going to retire, France has about 140 Mirage 2000C they are going to retire

I suspect the real issue is cost - giving away billions worth aircraft that normally would have been sold is hard ask. I am sure some hybrid financing deals could easily be worked out if there was sufficient will.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120256900#Comment_120256900

Have you heard of South Korea,Israel,Australia and New Zealand,i think they have some ammunition manufactures too,and are not in NATO.

And NATO have ramped up production in the US,Germany,Norway,Sweden,France,Italy and Czech republic.

Russia however is running low on ammunition too,and have cut back daily rate of fire because of it,they used 20000 a day in the beginning of the invasion,but now its only 15000 and by March probably only 10000 per day.

And have started using old stocks of degraded soviet era ammunition thats 40 years old

And you will be lucky if it fires or explode in the barrel.

And offcourse Ukraine have taken out several ammo depots allready as well and will continue to do so,same with ammo supplies.

You dont have to worry about NATO,you should worry about Russia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257115#Comment_120257115

It takes years to train a pilot on a fighter jet to proper NATO standard,in wartime it might be shortened,but not to same standard.

And its no use sending fighter jets with pilots thats not properly trained.

Its got everything to do with it and same goes for maintenance crews as well and proper maintenance facilities as well.

Gatling

@cnocbui I think your taking an opinion of one pilot/commander and applying it across the boards ,

A limited number of Ukrainan pilots have in the US along side US aircraft,

The Ukrainan only have a few qualified mig29 pilots and they already lost a few of them,

For instance the UK has a number of typhoon aircraft in storage,those are used for spares and canibalisaton to keep their operational aircraft flying,you give 30 modern aircraft away you then have to take a similar number of aircraft out of service to cover that loss which in turn reduces their cover by 60 aircraft,of which they barely have 100 flying operations and aircover over the UK ,

None of this is as simple as your making it out to be ,

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/will-the-uk-send-combat-aircraft-to-ukraine/

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257227#Comment_120257227

Yes and no. The 46 planes I am talking about are what's left currently after the Canadian purchase deal concluded, which it has. The private agreesor deal hasn't happened and is highly likely to have fallen through because the deal was predicated on them securring contracts with the US government, which they failed to do, apparently.

The planes are still in Australia.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257360#Comment_120257360

It was reported earlier that the Chinese would be submitting a plan to end the war in Ukraine around March.

That's nice of them,

Wonder if it involves putting Chinese peace keepers in occupied territory of Ukraine

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257371#Comment_120257371

Not seen any reports that's says it didn't happen,or the deal fell through,by all accounts the aircraft were to be delivered to the states over a number of years .

According to the Australian airforce they currently only have 24 F18s

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257378#Comment_120257378

Guessing their "peace plan" regarding Ukraine will largely leave Ukraine out of the discussion and carve up the S and E Ukraine for the Russians minus a little bit for "compromise". Russia will feign interest, Ukraine will rightfully say "not a chance", Chinese will walk away with the optics that Ukraine don't want peace.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257303#Comment_120257303

I completely understand the training argument, and ground support etc...

But that's not what Ben Wallace said. He said they won't be handing over any aircraft till after the war (if training starts after the war ends) then that's years after that.

Absolutely nothing to do with training. If Ukraine has pilots already trained on western aircraft to NATO standards etc... The UK would give them aircraft.... But only after the war.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257494#Comment_120257494

There is also other reason such as the typhoon is geared towards low level close air support, it's also not designed for rough ground take off and landing along with the cost of maintenance and support facilities,

It's not a simple case of here 30/40 of our best aircraft go fight the Russians with them a month later the majority are lost or out of service then what, give them another similar number leaving themselves operationally screwed if anything else happens outside of Ukraine,

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257525#Comment_120257525

I'm just going by what Ben Wallace had said.

He simple could have said they won't hand over aircraft as the aircraft the UK could supply would be of no use in this war for Ukraine. Or they feel Ukraine wouldn't be able to use them efficiency or Ukraine has no runways that they can use etc...

Especially after all the talk about training Ukrainian pilots and seeing what aircraft they can deliver to no aircraft until the war is over. He could have at least said until Ukraine win the war. Ya know a little motivation.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257543#Comment_120257543

Several MPs have suggested gifting tranche 1 Typhoon aircraft to Ukraine.

Tranche 1 Typhoons are currently planned to go out of service in March 2025. The Ministry of Defence says withdrawing the aircraft “enables the reinvestment required” to keep the rest of the Typhoon fleet flying until tranches 2 and 3 retire in 2040.

Justin Bronk says that while at first glance it might be appealing, there are significant practical limitations with donating tranche 1 aircraft. He says Typhoon aircraft are not optimised for the low-level flying likely required in Ukraine, as they have limited abilities in attacking ground targets from the air.

Typhoon is also not designed for short-field landings on rough surfaces, meaning they would need a relatively smooth runway and require considerable maintenance and support, meaning any base could become an easy target for Russian missiles..

The offer to train Ukrainian pilots has drawn attention to long-standing issues with fighter jet pilots in the UK.

In 2019, the National Audit Office found students taking longer than expected to complete training; fast-jet pilots took an average of 7.1 years to be trained rather than the Ministry of Defence’s optimum time of 3.9 years.

When he first became Defence Secretary in 2019, Ben Wallace told the Chief of the Air Staff his number one priority was to improve the fighter jet training pipeline: “there is no point in buying planes if there is no one to fly them. It is incredibly important that we get those pilots.”

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257387#Comment_120257387

The 24 you mention are planes currently in service and they are superhornets, not original F-18s which are what I am talking about. Originally Australia had 75 F-18s - 57 single seaters and 18 twin seaters. Canada bought 25, which started arriving there in Feb 2019.

Leaving 50, of which it seems 4 are being retained for museum display. The deal to supply Air USA inc with the remaining 46 planes arose in 2020. It's now 2023 and the deal looks to be dead. The company has changed name to Ravn Aerospace. Visit their news page and there is nothing: https://www.ravnaero.com/latestnews

Besides there isn't a hint of news of any contracts being signed, so Australia can still do whatever it likes with them.

Gatling

More on Poland and their mig29s we will send ours only as part of a coalition of aircraft but we won't be sending out F16s ...

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1626703304448176129?s=20

TheValeyard

Seems the Jets are another tank situation. Everyone waiting for someone to make the move first.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257845#Comment_120257845

But only as long they are older Soviet aircraft,

Nobody is giving up F16s , Typhoons ,or F18s .

Holland had 24 f16s in total but it's been suggested they pony up these, where is the rest coming from and why would the get rid of their only fighter jet leaving with F35s which aren't dogfighters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120257494#Comment_120257494

It doest matter if it for the war or after the war, pilots still need training,regardless

Like i said,training takes a few years atleast,and it doesnt matter if Ukraines pilots have been flying f15 or f16,Eurofighter typhoon is a totally different bird to fly alltogether with mainly european radars,avionics and missiles.

cnocbui

I suggested weeks ago that even if countries didn't want to supply fighters, they should at least start training Ukrainian pilots on them, in case it was realised they needed them in a hurry.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/02/18/7389941/

Ukraine should try a different tactic. Offer to buy Australias 46 F-18s, then start asking for financial assitance to help with the purchase.

20Wheel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258297#Comment_120258297

Something tells me that nobody in the real world is listening to the suggestions on this thread.

One guy on here was saying that he hears the voices from unreal tournament in his head when watching Ukraine war footage.

Another wanted ships to have balloons flying over them, with carbonium strings attached so that a plane flying overhead would have its wings cut off.

Those are verifiable posts in this thread, just referencing what has previously been said.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120258441#Comment_120258441

Lol