Russia - threadbanned users in OP

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340035#Comment_120340035

Not by much though, would putin have invaded while trump was busy downsizing and trying to dismantle NATO? Before NordStream 2 was mostly complete or while most countries were locked down in a pandemic? (those are also reasons why the equipment being there couldn't have happened) but you'd be looking at the likes of Kazakhstan now and looking to what they should be doing (given how impotent the russian army has turned out to be against an organised smaller force).

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339969#Comment_120339969

Well it's for certain that had Biden told Putin at some point during the massive buildup; 'I hope you aren't planning on doing anything rash, I have given Ukraine 4 nuclear weapons and the means to deploy them.' The invasion never would have happened.

The US's fixation and obsession with non-proliferation is partly resposible for this situation in the first place. The easiest and cheapest way to protect Taiwan against China would be to do the same, in secret and only announced as a last resort.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339461#Comment_120339461

its a shame they dont get alot more as well

cnocbui

https://global.espreso.tv/british-intelligence-explains-importance-of-damaged-a-50-aircraft-in-belarus-for-russia

The Belarusian opposition sure pulled of a coup with that strike.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340017#Comment_120340017

Shifting geopolitical realities,lol yes Russia invading Ukraine,Georgia and Moldova should be realities enough

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340080#Comment_120340080

It's a big country and western AA wouldn't have the same range as Russian ones. AWAC's on the Polish border help, but ideally Ukraine would need one themselves.

But yeah Imagine all the destruction that could have been prevented if western AA was delivered to Ukraine as fast as possible.

IRIS/T, NASAMS, Patriot and soon SAMP/T.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340035#Comment_120340035

No they pretty much weren't arming the Ukrainans with anything other than a few humvees and a few counter battery radars,

It's a myth unfortunately

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340065#Comment_120340065

Could have been received in Poland by Ukrainians ,not necessarily deployed to Ukraine proper ,

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340110#Comment_120340110

Yes unfortunately it could have prevented alot more damage and casualties

But i really hope they get to shoot down most of the ballistic missiles where Russia have the upper hand at the moment

Drones and slow cruise missiles doesnt seem to have such an impact anymore.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340017#Comment_120340017

That is interesting if he was not even invited, I believed/thought he had turned it down (and "snubbed" Biden) but that may have just been pro Russia disinfo (!) They cling desperately to the small number of pathetic "friends" they have around the world + particularly trumpet Hungary, because it is in both the EU and NATO.

It is understandable in hindsight depending on what was discussed, because if Orbán were present, I expect a full report of any decisions taken and exactly who said what at meetings between the leaders behind closed doors would be made to the Kremlin.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340112#Comment_120340112

https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2022-02-03/nato-member-states-arms-deliveries-to-ukraine

Pretty clear in that article that it was a lot more than a few humvees.

Igotadose

https://www.victims.memorial/

A website showing Ukrainians killed by RuZZia in Putler's war. Use a browser that translates to read their stories. Civilian and military victims. F**k RuZZia, Putler and all their defenders and enablers.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340124#Comment_120340124

There will still be issues with S300 launches from Belgorod as I can't see Ukraine installing a patriot system so close to the border. But each AA system installed means Russia need an even bigger launch of drones and missiles to try overwhelm Ukraine's AA, something that's taking Russia longer and longer to stockpile.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340112#Comment_120340112

Between 2014 and 2019 USA sent $1.6bn of weapons to Ukraine In late 2017 US companies were allowed to export weapons to Ukraine (meaning Ukraine paid for them), I don't know the total value of exports. Javelins were delivered from April 2018 onwards.

To say they were not arming the Ukrainians is false.

The post I replied to seem to suggest that if more arms had been provided to Ukraine prior to 2022, it would have prevented the invasion. This is nonsense for the reasons mentioned. These arms deliveries must have congressional approval, it takes months to approve then even longer to get the ball rolling. It's all public knowledge. If Russia got wind that tanks etc were headed to Ukraine, they simply would have moved their invasion forward.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340223#Comment_120340223

might've been more had Zelenskyy done that favour Trump asked him to do (j/k, it was a perfect call)

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340110#Comment_120340110

One of the reasons the Ukrainians cite for wanting modern western aircraft is for air defence agaianst missiles. They view them as a highly mobile air defence platform that can be rapidly positioned in under an hour to places that might take days to relocate ground based systems to.

They deploy their existing soviet era planes whenever missile attacks such as yesterdays happen and they have had noted success in shooting down Shahids and some cruise missiles, but they believe they would have considerably greater success with planes with more advanced radars and weapons.

They have commented that the Orcs have been routing their cruise missiles to follow low terrain routes such as rivers, presumably with them flying just above their surfaces, in order to avoid exposure to the small handful of modern air defences Ukraine now have for as long as possible.

Western aircraft with look down, shoot down radars would probably improve their detection and interdiction of these threats sigificantly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340184#Comment_120340184

Thats right,and i dont think Russia have to many hypersonic missiles and ballistic missiles in general left in stock either,because they need western electronics and parts, and are very expensive to produce.

RoyalCelt

The reason Putin didn't fully invade in 2014 was because of the world cup. He didn't want to risk losing the right to host it as it was going to be his biggest show of power. I believe this event alone bought the Ukrainians some much needed extra years.

Not sure what to make of the latest missile strike. Is the use of hypersonic missiles and admission they're running low on their regular stock or were they growing frustrated at the amount getting shot down?

In any cases another month and they'll be no more cold spells until next November. I wonder will Russia build up their stockpiles for more massive barrages next winter or continue to burn through stocks over the summer?

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340406#Comment_120340406

I think he was also building reserves for the economic war and building European dependence on Russian gas.

In one way the timing was very fortunate, if the us were still in Afghanistan, the us electorate would have much less appetite for funding Ukrainian defense.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340406#Comment_120340406

No I think his fear in 2014 was that a full scale invasion might prompt the west into action. He did not expect to get away completely with what he did.

Basically in 2014 Obama sh!t the bed. Biden wanted action against Russia back then, Obama decided on scantions only.

The lack of any other form of Western resistance emboldened Putin. When over the next eight years Ukraine failed to politically walk into his fold he decided on the invasion last year.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340223#Comment_120340223

No .

1.6 bn of security assistance,not all of that means weapons, training, communications systems,IT systems,some vehicles,counter battery radars and smaller equipment like NVG,

1.6 bm over 5 years doesn't equate to a lot in the bigger picture

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340385#Comment_120340385

They have ballistic missiles,not hypersonic missiles, all of the missles deployed against ukraine so far have been cruise missiles and ballistic missiles,the hogepodge of air defense systems is one of their biggest issues vs the lack of patriots isn't the biggest problem,none of the systems are multilayered and integrated with each other, it's why were seeing people on rooftops with manpads, trying to shoot down rockets,

Fighter jets won't solve the problem either, they need more radars and systems that are actually integrated into each other and a command and control centers who can identify and prioritise what's to be engaged and whats not

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340017#Comment_120340017

There's an interview with Gary Kasparov on YouTube discussing the war in Ukraine, and he's 100% anti Putin, and always has been. He wrote about Putin in 2015 and warned about what he was and what he would do if he was not stopped, and it all happened as he foretold. In the interview he also mentions Orban, and other supporters of Putin, China, Turkey, Venezuela etc. But specifically Orban because Hungary is both an EU and NATO member, and he says that in future, the EU at least, if not NATO, must have the power to remove any members who are not abiding by the EU Charter. But for now, immediate sanctions must be applied by the EU. in every way they can be applied.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340734#Comment_120340734

Anything above mach 5 is hypersonic,even if its only midcourse or burnout in the terminal stage,and kinzhal is capable of mach 5-8

NASAMS,IRIS T,Patriot and others are all connected trough NATOS link 16

And yes any air defence system is as good as its radar,but trough link 16 this can be more efficient

And the more radars,the better layer of defence

Hypersonic missiles needs to detected early to have any effect

jmreire

Wen I hear any mention about that Russian convoy, I drool at the thoughts of a squadron of A10 Warthogs' bearing down on them.... by the time they destroyed the first mile, there would not be any crews left in the remainder, they would be long gone, and watching ( and listening, the sound from the A10's cannons are something else, and much more terrifying than a bomb) from safe distance, well away from the road. Imagine you are in a vehicle back a back from the lead tank, and you see these Warthogs starting their run, and the destruction of the vehicles in front, and know that they will be coming for you next.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340745#Comment_120340745

What NATO needs to do is remove its voting system to majority vote,and not unanimous vote,or else someone will always take advantage of it to gain their own political gains,thats got nothing to do with NATO whatsover.

And members should be easier removed when they dont play by the rules or atleast punished somehow

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340930#Comment_120340930

And ditto for the UN security council which has been shown to be utterly inept as regards the current situation. Not capable of making a squeak with how they are structured.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340801#Comment_120340801

Link 16 is a data link and secure communications,

It's a not radar or air defense systems ,

Some of the defenses in men standing on roofs or mounted heavy machine guns on the back of jeeps or other vehicles,

They need systems that can detect and engage before missles make land from the blacksea and along the border with Moldova

AerLingus747

the ultimate **** you would just be to give them a feed from the Aegis system...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341089#Comment_120341089

Yes link 16 is used to send target coordinates and early detection amongst defence systems,meaning Patriot and Nasams can share target coordinates trough their radars with eachother and others,and they can even guide eachothers missiles towards the target.

And those on rooftops with manpads and machineguns are for slow moving drones