Russia - threadbanned users in OP

WheelieKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681639#Comment_120681639

Okay.

briany

Going nuclear in any way would affect Russians in the vicinity as badly as it would Ukrainians, number one. Number two, it wouldn't make for any kind of victory, just more of a strategic stalemate, but one which would drive a wedge between Russia and the few important allies it has.

WheelieKing

Apparently the flooding makes that region a lot harder to cross for Ukraine, thus freeing up Russian units to defend other areas. It's a calculated but ultimately disgusting move.

NATO need to react, the UK and France have already sent or agreed to send cruise missiles, the US and Germany should do the same now.

I guess it's a combination of wanting to throw up a roadblock for Ukraine - whatever resource they need to divert to managing the flooding is resource they can't use on the frontlines - and Russia simply being arseholes. It's surely an eventuality that Ukraine planned for so I don't see it affecting things greatly.

From the bits I've read the biggest obstacle for Ukraine at the moment is the sheer volume of landmines that Russia have already placed and continue to place further back from the frontlines. It sounds like Ukrainian intelligence have a very good idea on the locations of most of them but knowing they're there and avoiding them in a fight are two different things.

Mormegil

Timeline of what the Russians were saying about the Dam.

https://twitter.com/VolodyaTretyak/status/1666015265971118082

zv2

Kherson

https://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1666030358150643712?s=20

zv2

Kherson

https://twitter.com/PierreCrom/status/1666030261417521153?s=20

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681246#Comment_120681246

What part West of the dam could be used for a counter offensive prior to the demolition ?? ... I don't see many issues geographically with the counter offensive now that the dam is blown.. other then Russian trenches being flooded

zv2

More fire in Mordor

https://twitter.com/Sergey_Hodor/status/1666029886002151426?s=20

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681570#Comment_120681570

1. The Russians order an evacuation of civilians on the left bank months ago.
2. That water supply was already shut off to Crimea for 8 of the past 9 years.
3. The ZNPP is currently shut down and in a cooled state. No doubt it still needs cooling water but the Russians have played loose & fast with it already.
4. The counter-offensive is happening right now. Ukrainians hindering that by blowing the dam, causing untold damage to their country, just because they might be able to gain an advantage in several months is just absurd levels of mental gymnastics.

Furze99

Russians just adding more billions to their rapidly increasing reparations bill.

If I was a Russian citizen here, I'd be getting worried as you'll be on the hook yet.

briany

Ukraine will need to show restraint in the wake of this dam's destruction and flooding parts of Kherson. It would be a secondary hope of Russia that, apart from trying to shrink the front line, flooding Kherson might push Ukrainian high command into a rage and push for reprisals, committing forces intended for the counter offensive in a hasty way. Obviously, Ukraine is aiming to strike Russian occupying forces at some point soon, but it must be in a calculated way.

zv2

Today's numbers are very telling

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681570#Comment_120681570

Explain the raising of the level behind the dam to record levels in advance

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681135#Comment_120681135

Except for the fact that the Russians placed explosives on the dam last October, so unless Ukrainian sent commandoes in to blow it, ( extremely unlikely ) or shelled it, ( which would have been recorded) then the only possibility is that the Russians themselves did it. And they are more than capable of committing war crimes ( which this is) as we have seen multiple time's in the past!

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681782#Comment_120681782

What do you recon that some event organiser over at the UN is looking at the news and is now bricking it thanks to the cr*p-tastic timing of what Russia just did....

200mg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681827#Comment_120681827

Easy thing to fix make it a 2 hour long reading of russian war crimes in russian.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681827#Comment_120681827

It's kind of perfect really. It encapsulates the mealy-mouthed nature of the U.N. in a single tweet.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681230#Comment_120681230

You think that Putin is not capable of giving what you call "Tall Orders" Timmy? When he gave the order to invade, which was a tall order or extreme magnitude, he's capable of giving any kind of order. And as for harming Russians? When has that ever stopped him before? Putin cares about Putin and no one else.

saabsaab

It looks like Russian escalation for two main reasons

1) To delay an offensive in the area and distract Ukraine and others from it.

2) To 'up the ante' as the loss of the water puts the nuclear plants depending on it in danger. Putting more pressure on Ukraine and Europe especially to make a deal.

Economics101

When Hitler was well and truly on the ropes, he often odrered the wanton desctruction of cities and other assets. This was for no sound military reason, just lashing out by a regime full of evil and hatred. Fortunately some of his generals did not go along with this, otherwise Paris would have been torched.

What has happened to the Kakhova dam would seem to me to be similar/ It is largely an act of lashing out by someone who knows he is beaten, but who only wants to go down making as much desctuction as possible. That kind of mentality carries obvious risks of going nuclear .

Brussels Sprout

There are 3 actual possibilities here:

1. The Ukrainians blew the dam
2. The Russians blew the dam
3. The dam failed without either side specifically targeting it last night

I personally think that #1 can all but be ruled out for reasons already given.

I think #2 can very much be ruled in given past Russian actions in this war.

I don't think #3 can be ruled our entirely but it'd be a coincidence for it to happen right now, in the middle of the night, right when the UAF are beginning their counter-assault.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681922#Comment_120681922

One other possibility,

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681629#Comment_120681629

When it comes to committing war crimes and monstrous atrocities', there's nothing they are not capable of doing, or depths to which they will not sink to. Putin is a monster, surrounded by monsters.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681733#Comment_120681733

The ZNPP is relying on emergency diesel generators to keep the reactors cooled and water pumping.

IAEA representatives at the site have already commented on the danger of the situation, and the fact that if the ZNPP reservoir falls below 12m then pumping water is impossible.

No counter offensive is happening that involves the reservoir, other than those scouting missions in the estuary islands months ago. The Ukrainians arent idiots and have learned from their previous attempts to cross the reservoir and land at ZNPP. They will not try again - though once the reservoir has drained and dried they can send many small groups to the opposite shore undetected.

This war will not end in a month, or two, or three. Having plans to make the russian positions left of the Dnieper harder to defend is forward thinking.

Seanmadradubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681712#Comment_120681712

I think this shows without doubt why the Ukrainians were not responsible, for the whole of this conflict they have shown they don't want to destroy their own cities or harm their own people.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681813#Comment_120681813

The dam was damaged and inoperable with no staff for months - the record levels were due to water releases from dams further to the dnieper.

This was reported on at the time also

fly_agaric

Idea of Ukraine blowing up major dams on its on territory does run into same issue as the other "cunning" strategies posted about before (like Ukraine exploding dirty bombs to contaminate the land/water etc. and blaming Russia for it).

It is their own country they are messing up and they want to live there post war, the soldiers carrying out orders may be from areas that get ruined for these clever strategic purposes.

Ukraine is not a piece of a map in a real time strategy computer game.

Despite the "Ukraine is Russia" propaganda, the Russians can ultimately go home and throughout the war the attitude coming down from the top (Putin and his gang of murdering pirates) has been if "we" can't have Ukraine to bully, exploit and rob, we are going to ruin it!

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120681674#Comment_120681674

Mine fields are a standard protection for defenses, and as such they are planned for. You can be sure that General Zaluzhny the UA CIC has made plenty of provisions for eliminating or at least reducing the threat they pose.Tactics and counter tactics is the name of the game, and he's very good at it, as he has well proven by now.

Seanmadradubh

"I am calling environmental organizations and activists, animal protection organizations and activists to action! Severe damage has been caused to the ecosystem in the South of Ukraine and the whole Black Sea and the Sea of Azov regions. Animals, birds and fish are dying in large quantities."

This is what is really getting to me today. Bastards.

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1666037418233823232?cxt=HHwWgICwhY6N-p4uAAAA

Mullinabreena

There's no doubt that the Russians blew the dam. Anything else is just Russian propaganda.