Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Akabusi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962936#Comment_120962936

That is not true.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962936#Comment_120962936

Land is land. But could be to force Ukraine to move forces away from the South to counter this.

Virgil°

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962936#Comment_120962936

I doubt its to make gains. Most likely its to bait Ukranian reserves away from any upcoming push in the south.

edit: snap

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963051#Comment_120963051

What’s not true??

Its widely reported on all news channels and sites.

Akabusi

To add to my previous post I think you might mean Kupyansk which is over 100km from Kharkiv.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/10/europe/kupyansk-ukraine-evacuation-russia-intl/index.html

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963070#Comment_120963070

Ok sorry my mistake.

My original question stands, is there any strategic advantage in capturing Kupyansk?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120960546#Comment_120960546

That's the whole point, they want to be identified, and I think that normally, in videos like these, the spokesperson calls out his on name, rank and unit. Maybe going public, they hope to get some protection? I don't know...you never hear any follow up videos. But one or two videos of what happened to ones who refused to fight, and got leaked out, shows some pretty grim and harsh treatment being meted out, including death threats.

Igotadose

Drove past this today, on holiday in the PNW. Mildly relevant to this thread:

Slava Ukraini

jmreire

The slightest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961313#Comment_120961313

Furze99, we have had this discussion before, and recently I again made the point that any westerner who is judging Russia through the eyes of western society, is on the wrong track, right from the beginning. Don't you understand? Russia under Putin ( and even long before Putin, back to the USSR days) is one gigantic mafia terrorist state, with world wide tentacles. You will have seen videos of how the North Korean monster Kim Jong Un controls North Korea. He controls not just what and when they eat, sleep and drink, he controls what they think. Putin has not quite reached that standard of depravity yet, but he's trying hard. I spent several years living and working there, and believe me, unless you have experienced it, you would not believe the level of control the state has over its citizens. And all done under "The Constitution and Law of The Russian Federation ". Anywhere, anytime, anyplace, you can be stopped by armed Police and your papers demanded. And they better be in order. And even if they are, that does not mean you are off the hook. As I heard one man whom had been stopped for a " Document Check" and was issued with a fine, protest why are you fining me? and the policeman replied " there's 400 pages in the Russian Law book, want me to open a random page? " So the unfortunate paid up and shut up. The slightest protest will be met with swarms of police in minutes, and those involved will be bundled into police wagons, and non too gently either. Putin cannot afford any challenge to his authority, so he cracks down hard when ever any kind of threat appears. But maybe at some stage, when the body count reaches critical mass in the republics, then you might see an organized resistance. There has already been the stirrings of resistance in some of the provinces at the mobilizations. But a break out like the 1916 Irish Rising? No, I doubt it very much.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961540#Comment_120961540

The hotdog stand owner you mentioned had a few thousand heavily armed and equipped battle hardened troops behind him, and took down several aircraft that were sent to stop him, after which all resistance stopped ( except for trench dug across the road outside Moscow.) No one interfered because everyone thought it was a coup, and were waiting to see which side would win. Even the police had left Rostov, the main military base in the region when Prigozhin appeared. Even Putin fled. The population of Moscow is roughly 12 million, so say 1.2 million takes to the streets....just how likely you think that this will happen? Putin has cracked down hard on protests so far, even protests where many thousands took to the streets. The protests have never been successful in Moscow or other Russian cities. A military intervention by one of the Silovicki or Oligarchs private army's might work, and that's a likely end for Putin, but the citizens rising up en masse? I doubt it very much

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961787#Comment_120961787

And they are the lucky ones that made it out.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962664#Comment_120962664

No, its not like that. Large Nrs (of Russians if thats who you mean? ) do know what is going on, just that they are powerless to do anything about it, and as you say also there's the problem of no one to coordinate it. But there's plenty here on boards who have never been to Russia, and really haven't a clue about it or how life is lived there, and then make the mistake of comparing it to life in the west. Big mistake, a very big mistake.

Akabusi

I see Microsoft have now decided not to renew licences in Russia.

https://ground.news/article/the-end-of-microsofts-software-in-russia-americans-wont-renew-licenses

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961440#Comment_120961440

Defending ruSSians of not protesting because dictatorship, fear, yada yada, as well as defending them at all is frankly quite dumb nowadays. For your memory refreshment - they organized themselves in masses in a very short time to support regime in May. Even in Ireland around 1000 ruSSkies organized for themselves a sh1tshow in May. So, if they wanted to protest, they could, they just dont want.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962637#Comment_120962637

Churchill and Chamberlain comes in mind

RoyalCelt

Watching a lot more footage from both sides the last few days and while massive losses for Russia and Ukraine I'm convinced Russia is suffering more.

It's depressing watching changes on a map and how slow Ukraine are at taking territory but it's clear that Russia is throwing bodies at the breakthrough areas to stop it at all costs.

They keep flooding the frontline trenches with mobilised reserves who get picked off by Ukrainian artillery and drones. They've about 2 more months to hold out so the question is can they keep throwing bodies to plug the holes for that long.

At the current rate that would be about 30k reserves dead so in reality they probably can. I wonder will Ukraine be happy to just bleed them as much as possible before settling for another winter where they'll inevitably be better equipped come next spring with western fighter jets and Abrams.

At least during the winter they Will be able to hit more Russian long range target's now that they have long range missile's from France and the UK and hopefully Germany and the US by then.

Assuming next year from May to October we see the war playing out similar to how it is now just with Ukraine having more of an upper hand including a bigger artillery advantage by then. I'd guess Russia could be looking at losing around 100k men to hold the southern frontline for another year.

Seanmadradubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961183#Comment_120961183

Or to put it another way, if you act like a dick people won't want anything to do with you.

technocrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963702#Comment_120963702

Another explanation could be the uncomfortable truth for some here that the majority of the public actually support Putin and the war on Ukraine.

Also the silence from Russian expats living abroad is deafening except for those that’s are openly supporting Russia whether it’s in Germany, Ireland or at the podium of sporting events!

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963890#Comment_120963890

lol.

That's certainly a way to put it, but not really representative of my point.

pixelburp

If Russian state TV and media constantly tells you that Ukraine is a Failed State full of Nazis and Paedophiles, then it's not a huge leap to speculate that there's actually a healthy degree of support for the war. In the absence of a free press, or basic digital connectivity to give you credible dissenting opinions, it's easy enough to cultivate a solid buy-in into the "three day" invasion.

But then, I'd go further and speculate that the further you get from a military family with sons fighting in Ukraine, the more support rises. Easier to maintain a belief in Russia as some benevolent interventionist entity when you're not burying an empty coffin, or hearing the scuttlebutt from comrades and other doomed boys in the trenches.

Seanmadradubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963917#Comment_120963917

"I meant that in every society, people who go against the socially accepted narrative or acceptable opinion are more often than not ostracised and for the want of a better word "cancelled"."

We're a social species and like all social animals we need rules regarding behaviour to keep our societies together and survive as a species, you should count yourself lucky that you live in a time and place where being "cancelled" is what happens, in days of old you would have found yourself banished from the village or tribe, which was in reality for most, a death sentence.

The whole "anti-cancell culture" thing is just people wanting to act like dicks without any comeback, and that will never happen, it's too much part of what we are as a social animal, and essential for our very survival.

strathspey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963702#Comment_120963702

Actually, just like all Germans where collectively vilified after the WW2, also white South Africans during the years of apartheid, I'm very comfortable in castigating all russians for not speaking out, call it guilty by association. russians, no matter where they live, should expect to be despised for at least a generation following on from this war!

zv2

???

https://twitter.com/MCTothSTL/status/1689917842685067265?s=20

Become Death

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964013#Comment_120964013

Again, you seem to have picked up on a singular word "cancelled", one which I admitted was not a great word, and run with it and misrepresent what I said.

There are plenty of reasons to disagree with socially accepted narratives or to question authority other than "wanting to be a dick", but often, if you do, you have people admonishing you, disowning you, discrediting you or your lifes work or insulting you. While these outcomes pale in comparison to what happens in Russia or North Korea etc, it's still indicative of similar tactics being used.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964026#Comment_120964026

Certainly there'll be far more scrutiny of a post Putin Russia unlike the general optimism that followed the dissolution of the USSR.

After 9/11 the US got too cosy with Putin, bbq with Bush at Crawford ranch as allies in the war on a noun.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962120#Comment_120962120

Unfortunately not always the case. Assad still going, Maduro, Lukashenko, the Burmese Junta, Mugabe was there until his 90's, the Kim dynasty in N Korea has been there for 3 generations. If an authoritarian leader can keep control of most of the military and the security apparatus they can often stay in power indefinitely. There is little or no threat to Putin's leadership in Russia.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963890#Comment_120963890

The people being ostracized in Russia are the ones standing up to injustice, not defending it. And even in the west, people are sometimes ostracized simply for speaking the truth (women who point out that being female isn't a matter of feeling, but biology). Each case is different, it's far from simplistic "the good guys are popular, the dicks are cancelled"

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963898#Comment_120963898

I've met quite a few Russians abroad who oppose their government. They often volunteer to help Ukrainian refugees or host them. Unfortunately it's the Z idiots who tend to make more noise in public, while the better ones often focus on action.

Though it's true many seem indifferent and silent and that's hard to excuse

Seanmadradubh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964045#Comment_120964045

I just gave the reason for that kind of behaviour. If people never questioned or disagreed our societies would never progress, just count yourself lucky you don't live in a time where you could have been burned at the stake for saying the wrong thing.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120961183#Comment_120961183

Not making much sense here I'm afraid. I don't see our government having many similarities to Putin's regime.