Russia - threadbanned users in OP

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978536#Comment_120978536

Except that its standard operational practice for Putin's hordes, as has been already proved many times in Ukraine.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979066#Comment_120979066

Had a similar experience in Nha Trang in Vietnam... absolutely horrible people

RoyalCelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978991#Comment_120978991

When Roboytne is fully secured they should move laterally as they'll now be attacking other fortifications from the side and behind. Easiest way to move the entire frontline up instead of attacking head on everywhere.

After Roboytne falls they'll have broken through about 7KM on the road to Tokmak with about 19km left. This is a Town the size of Navan and the Russians are throwing everything at stopping the approach.

IMO unless Ukraine attack laterally now and move the entire frontline up it will expose them too much to counter attacks and reduce their options for moving forward.

pixelburp

This thread has really taken a ... I dunno, a dark & cynical take in trying to basically prosecute and analyse Russians as now not just complicit, but "terrible people". I don't think there's an intent towards dehumanisation, though there sure is an attempt to hold all of the population to blame for its problems, and maybe people need to take a step back and consider the language and perspectives here.

Russia is a deeply complex country and while ostensibly presents as broadly "Western" adjacent in its ethnicities, history, architecture etc. and so on, it couldn't be more different from what grew into the liberal and social democracies West of the Danube. It missed so many of the social and cultural revolutions that created the societies we live in now - and is the base of why I believe it's a moribund state, lurching from one autocrat to another 'til the inevitable collapse.

The war in Ukraine has shown a groundswell of support for Ukraine, and seems like most here want them to prevail against a demonstrable antagonist an hostile power - but I'd also suggest we take a breath and stop trying to rationalise an end-point where Russia become actual Orcs rathe than only metaphorical ones.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979671#Comment_120979671

Highlighting the majority of a nationality are horrible people doesn't make it some sort of de-humanisation exercise.

There is a really easy fix which they have no intention of doing.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979753#Comment_120979753

Highlighting the majority of a nationality are horrible people doesn't make it some sort of de-humanisation exercise.

LOL. I mean, that's precisely what you just did in your reply. All Russians are horrible people: what do you think that entails when you say that?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979753#Comment_120979753

Claiming the majority of a nationality are horrible people is exactly a dehumanisation exercise.

Its literally the same stuff that the Russian state (as distinct from russian populace) claim about Ukrainians.

RoyalCelt

Just want to add Roboytne is probably not as liberated as I originally claimed but it is getting closer.

Akabusi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979671#Comment_120979671

I wouldn't get caught up on it, with each atrocity that Russia commits, anger builds and it is hard not to lash out. The bad behaviour wherever they go also doesn't paint a good picture. I have some experience having visited Russia on three occasions, the last time back in 2019. Back then I talked with my Russian colleagues about Putin, the message from them was they felt helpless and were just trying to get on with life as best they could. Another Russian colleague who lives in Germany despised what Putin had done to her country and was the main reason she was living in the West. I think honestly we all know there are so many decent people in Russia such as that man being sentenced to 1.5 years for holding a sign - he may likely be mobilised and if so I hope he can get to safety with the Ukrainians.

Just on my times in Russia, apart from the bad roads and driving outside of Moscow I was always well looked after and did feel safe. Moscow was a wonderful city to visit to see its historical landmarks and getting around was easy by using the underground. I was always apprehensive about handing over my passport when entering the industrial complexes but no harm came it was always handed back to me when leaving. It a real shame that Russia never got a proper shot at as a functioning democracy.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979753#Comment_120979753

thats enough internet for today

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979787#Comment_120979787

Yes you're quite correct but isn't that what always happens after a protracted period of conflict.

My personal attitude to ordinary Russians has hardened in the past 12 months. I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt for the initial period of the war but there can be excuses after a while that they don't know what they are involved in. Whether they support the war openly or just keep their heads down, they are all complicit in facilitating it to continue.

Same thing happened after WW2, for my fathers generation Germans were viewed with great suspicion.

Kalyke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980009#Comment_120980009

Thats a jump of 3.5 percent. Wow.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978711#Comment_120978711

"Both sides"

There have been a high number of reported cases of Russian soldiers and mercenaries committing murder, torture and abuse against Ukrainian POWs (and civilians). It's systematic and commonplace.

In contrast, the cases of Ukrainian soldiers committing these offences are few and isolated.

Don't compare or paint any form of false equivalence between the two, or attempt to "both sides" it.

zv2

Another Russian speaks out

https://twitter.com/PixaAre/status/1691371441214685184?s=20

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979913#Comment_120979913

That has been my experience too generally. Once you get used to "the how things are done here" ( especially the police presence) Its fine and I never had any problems, even wandering around Moscow at night. If you want to get from A to B just stand on the footpath with your arm extended, and pretty soon a car will stop, you make a deal with the driver, and off you go. It was a small cash enterprise operated by ordinary Russians driving their own cars, as distinct as the official taxi service. I'm not sure if that system is still in operation now though.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979787#Comment_120979787

There's a key difference though.... the Russian's give us copious amounts of empirical evidence to support this claim that they are horrible people.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980176#Comment_120980176

Brave woman!!! And you can be sure that she's not the only Russian thinking like that. People like her terrify Putin, and that's why he cracks down so hard on the slightest protest. He knows very well that he does not have the full support of the Russian people, even the ethnic Russians, never mind from the Republics. I hope that she will be OK, but I doubt it some how. Those kind of truths hurt Putin. Image if it was repeated thousands of times, across Russia? People speaking out about how they really feel about him and his illegal war in Ukraine?

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979777#Comment_120979777

calling people horrible isn't de-humanising... as much as you really want it to

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980333#Comment_120980333

Your exact words were: "Highlighting the majority of a nationality are horrible people"

Do you seriously not get why talking about a majority of a people as being inherently horrible might have a dehumanising context, by way of a sweeping generalisation? By your own words you want to dismiss a majority's population with a pejorative. "horrible people" - not exactly a winning endorsement or suggestion most are ... well, good people. What's your definition of dehumanisation then if you think you're not being thus?

If you can't see how that can be rendered as dehumanising then I don't think we're gonna get anywhere - but honestly, it backs up my point that maybe there's not much of a thread here if folk are gonna use it as a launchpad to condemn the Russian people en masse.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980353#Comment_120980353

Ok Ok ... All Russian's are great !!!

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980176#Comment_120980176

She should win the humanisation awards 2023

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980411#Comment_120980411

Standing up and speaking out like that in Putin's Russia is an act of bravery, and she deserves an award for that.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980407#Comment_120980407

Well if you're just going be childish, then that's that. I had presumed I was talking to an adult at least willing to discuss the point, so that's my error.

If you wilfully refuse to consider that maybe talking about a whole population with pejoratives might kinda underline the point - or even respond when I asked what you consider "dehumanisation" just to give some sense of context - then that's your problem, not mine. Would you speak that way about, for instance, Nigerians? The Irish?

The point stands: this thread's gone to shít if people are just openly sledging Russians, whether being collectively horrible or somehow complicit in the invasion.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980437#Comment_120980437

I just re-humanised them, and you're still not happy.

AerLingus747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980428#Comment_120980428

She won afternoon tea with Putin.

zv2

Like something out of Mad Magazine

https://twitter.com/PatriaeFilius/status/1691341828363083776?s=20

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120980442#Comment_120980442

Like I said, I mistook you for wanting to actual talk seriously, so my bad. You're obviously not serious.

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120979671#Comment_120979671

Yes 100%

I can understand the sheer disgust and revolution with much of the stuff Russia has done since they invaded Ukraine.

But I would draw the line at dehumanising an entire nation because of it. Not every single Russian is responsible, and there are some brave Russians who have made a stand against it, loosing there freedom, risking there families, and more.

So much easier to sit behind a phone or keyboard here to say what we like about whats happening without those risks.

nacho libre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120978703#Comment_120978703

Not really. They were doing the same in Grozny during the first war. Their Soliders were seen as cannon fodder in that war too. Those thinking ordinary Russians will rise up and overthrow Putin are living in cloud cuckoo land. Look what has happened to the general that was seen as sympathetic to Wagner. In a society where the security services are all pervasive few will have the courage to speak up, those that do will fall out windows, be posioned or spend years in hell hole prisons. It's not like protesting outside the Dail, where the worst you might encounter is bemused Gardai and members of the public. If change comes in Russia it will be through a cabal of senior military and security figures having had enough of war. The detention of the butcher of Syria was a clear message to others who might be thinking of rebelling, but it could still happen if Ukraine makes significant progress in the next 12 months.

TheValeyard

It's interesting that Liev was hit heavily last night. Wonder is the AA placed in more central locations or just low on ammo.

The UAF are advancing, all be it very slowly. I'm curious that if they break through these lines, does Russia actually have the organised manpower and equipment for the second and third defensive lines or it is more for show.

Currently I think it's remarkable how UAF are able to advance without the air support that's badly needed