Russia - threadbanned users in OP

RoyalCelt

https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1697241583198883887?t=aio0LxeaRRbI_TIeRtFnXw&s=19

Sounds about right. Ukraine getting 50 to 60 aircraft would be huge if it happened before next summer but if this war goes on into 2025 you'd like to think by then Ukraine would have a fleet of 150+ western aircraft.

And factor in they'll probably lose 10+ from accidents or Russian attacks etc.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052138#Comment_121052138

There was a user, an aussie, unfortunately threadbanned, who shared an article on F18 jets Australia were thinking to donate to Ukraine. Does anyone knows what came out of it at the end?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-28/australia-not-giving-ukraine-military-support-needs-retired-jets/102529920

Sleepy

I'm no expert but I'd assume that's because more and more of the NATO standard 155mm guns are being brought to action (Howitzers and other self-propelled 155m guns seem to form part of almost every aid package Ukraine are sent), more crews have been trained in their operation (the US were/are delivering this training in Germany IIRC), the crews are becoming more accurate as they become more experienced with them and counter-battery fire seems to be a key factor in the strategy of the counter-offensive...

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052138#Comment_121052138

Also, worth keeping in mind that the first ten or so aircraft will likely never touch down on Ukrainian soil, or at least not until after the end of the conflict. If UkrAF command is smart, they'll use those to set up an operational conversion unit in one of the western nations in order to have their own training pipeline.

and yes, it's worth repeating that there will be significant training required. Whilst a lot of Ukrainians sent to train on F-16s will be "current" on the main fighter and trainer aircraft currently in Ukraine's inventory, and know all about how aircraft actually work, stall speeds, etc., they will not be used to the F-16s cockpit layout, or the the underlying operating concepts. The cockpit layout and the peculiarities of the F-16s flight characteristics are easily taught, especially to seasoned pilots. A few weeks of ground school and simulator sessions, and most experienced pilots should be able to transition to the real aircraft.

The operating concept is a different matter. I may have touched on this before, but given how rapidly this thread is still growing, it's worth repeating. Western pilots in general have a lot more autonomy in planning and carrying out their mission compared to what pilots brought up along Soviet or Russian principles would have. As such, they're expected to be much more aware of the tactical situation around them, and able to adjust quickly. The F-16's entire cockpit layout is designed around it, from the HUD to the large displays, the information that is available to the pilot, and the ability to integrate the aircraft with other F-16s, to the massively increased visibility and reliance on HOTAS controls. You don't fly and fight this aircraft so much as you "manage" it, whereas on the MiG-29 or Su-25, you'd have enough information to get to your target and deliver your ordnance, and that's it.

This much wider perspective, the wealth of information and the tactical freedom going along with it will be the biggest advantage for Ukrainian pilots, but it'll also require a massive shift in the operating philosophy, from mission planning to actual combat. If Ukrainian pilots can handle this change in operating philosophy, and to be honest, I'm pretty sure they will, then even these relatively simple F-16s can be a massive boost for the Ukrainian Air Force.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052192#Comment_121052192

I did some reading on that at the time and a lot of the info I could find on-line was that most of those F18s were already end-of-life or extremely close to it i.e. they'd have been death-traps due to the airframes being well past their scrap-by-date.

EDIT: Healthy dose of salt required, mind you, half the sources I found were on Twitter!

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052007#Comment_121052007

BOTH the west and Russia have been made paranoid by Cold War terror. The Russians had their own version of Duck and Cover. They built nuclear bunkers all over Russia. The west was terrorized by the imminence of MAD. Nuclear weapons are unhealthy in more than one way.

RGARDINR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051158#Comment_121051158

There is but I don't like if someone is posting say Russia make progress somewhere and post a link showing this there called a Russian bot etc. There is 1 sides here and I like to get as much information as I can. If crap is been posted call it out but if someone posts something about Russia making some sort of progress and that's all they post let them as we have about 50 others here who will post Ukrainian successes here and we can réad that but I do like a bit of balance here and not just all one sided.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121051858#Comment_121051858

Sometimes I actually think some of the more hysterical, paranoid posters who accuse others of being pro Russian bots when they post a "Russian propaganda" link from, say, the BBC, are themselves Russian bots set up to discredit the pro Ukrainian side as being all fanatical and intolerant. In the same way in the run up to 2016 election the Russians quite cleverly set up fake pro BLM accounts merely to provoke strife and paint both sides as fanatical.

Though in reality there are probably very few bots here, just a mixed pool of perspectives and approaches and some who lash out at any perceived difference of opinion. At the end of the day 99 percent agree on the causes and ideal outcome of the war, the bickering is mostly over secondary issues like will Crimea be retaken or all Russians guilty for Putin's actions.

rogber

Confirmation of the Pskov attack, Russians vowing revenge shows they are rattled.

Would be really great if they could hit a decent target in Moscow or Petersburg, but probably too much to ask

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66675108

mike_cork

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukrainian-counteroffensive-pierces-main-russian-defensive-line-in-southeast-9441e204

More of a positive tone from the WSJ on the counter offensive

wassie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052192#Comment_121052192

Sounds simple - but much has talk has already been made of the use of F16s over FA18s, including differences in payloads and combat radius as well as pilot training.

One of the issues is that these retired Aussie aircraft are the older (upgraded) F/A-18A/B variants. Despite what the article suggests, the design of these upgraded 'classic' variants is still significantly different from the F/A-18E/F 'Super Hornets' that are currently in operation and would have technical challenges in terms of maintenance just to get these planes operational again.

But at the end of the day, it would be the US to be the ones to give the permission (again the article suggest otherwise but there is no evidence to support this claim).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052284#Comment_121052284

Actually the opposite. It has been well documented that because the Aussie FA18s have been used primarily on land, the frames are in very good condition, as opposed to the US Navy counterparts that suffer heavy stress associated with repeated fast, sharp naval aircraft carrier landings.

Fighter aircraft frames can be extremely durable and can easily have operational life spans of 30-40 years. Whilst the frame are solid, generally there would be a number of complete system upgrades required to refresh the aircraft over its life to keep it operational.

Beasty

Back on topic everyone

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052481#Comment_121052481

I don't think it is too much tbh. They've shown they can now hit deep inside Russia again and again with western help i think it's only a matter of time before we see something very very big indeed from Ukraine in regards military or intelligence damage to Russia. Let's see what happen but it looks like the tide is slowly turning in Ukraine's favour after a tough summer.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052765#Comment_121052765

Too right.

Onwards and victory for Ukraine!!!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121050989#Comment_121050989

I thought it was fairly 'armless meself

Say my name

It appears Belarusian air defense tracked the Ukrainian drones over it's air space but the military has orders from Lukashenko not to interfere.

Perhaps. Or with the fog of war a smear campaign to drive a wedge between him and Putin.

http://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1697279835683312032

Polar101

Or maybe they didn't have anything to shoot them down with.

Say my name

Now Putin killed Prigozhin because Pri's mafia controls the military food supply. 😄

http://twitter.com/lyssafella/status/1697299038306283776

Say my name

Windows are closing in Russia at the end of the month. Darth Putin may get creative.

http://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1697309970893590674

Akabusi

According to telegram, Pskov under attack again tonight.

storker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121053907#Comment_121053907

In Russia when Windows crashes it takes you with it.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054150#Comment_121054150

Gives a new meaning to "Blue Screen of Death"... 😬

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121052192#Comment_121052192

Good article that. I found the following interesting though:

"The F/A-18 has some advantages over the F-16 for Ukraine's purposes. First, it is a "navalised" fighter, meaning it has a strengthened undercarriage that would allow it to land and take off from rougher airfields (and potentially roads), unlike the F-16 which requires highly maintained airfields. This would give the Ukrainian air force more flexibility and increase the chances the aircraft would survive longer in combat. In more remote locales, these jets would also be more difficult to detect when not flying."

The bit I've put in bold is what worries me about the F-16 and deploying it to Ukraine. Does Ukraine have the air defenses to protect the F-16s when on the ground, plus the airfield's runways, when they are deployed at some stage? Because I'd say it's highly likely where ever the F-16s are based will inevitably attract Russian attacks to degrade their capability.

macraignil

Report that Ukraine has troops now fully trained in using US Abrams tanks and the first ten are due to be delivered by mid September.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/31/ukrainian-soldiers-complete-training-abrams-tanks-00113668

RTE rather bizarrely running a nice quirky tourism focused documentary about a motorcycle trip though Siberia shot in 2020 but seriously … it’s might as well be an ad for Visit Russia.

I get the production team put a lot of effort in and had no idea the war was going to be a thing, but really RTE … maybe park it for a few years ?!

Akabusi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054202#Comment_121054202

It's RTE, are you really surprised at this stage.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054098#Comment_121054098

That's just showing off at this point. Still, I'll drink to it.

briany

With Ukraine now trying to breach the Surovikin line, is it safe to assume that the armour they had accumulated up to June is all now in play?

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121054175#Comment_121054175

Honestly, I don't see the mentioned issues with the F-16 as problematic. While yes, the MiG-29, the current mainstay fighter in the Ukrainian inventory, can shut off her front air intakes and open intakes on top of the fuselage to take off from gravel strips, other aircraft in the Ukrainian inventory don't have this feature, and are equally as vulnerable to debris on the runway as the F-16. This by extension means that runways and taxiways need to be cleared of debris regardless of aircraft type.

As for the landing gear, yes, the F/A-18 is a carrier fighter, which means its landing gear is designed to handle extremely hard landings. However, the F-16 isn't exactly a prima donna either. This aircraft has operated of highways and auxiliary airfields as well, and is operated in some pretty tough environments even today. From what I can see, a lot of these supposed issues about the sensitivity are overblown. The F-16 will require about as much care and airfield preparation when operating as the Su-27, which is already in Ukraine's inventory.

The one thing that is a concern, as you correctly mentioned, is the vulnerability to air attacks while the jets are on the ground, as they will definitely be a priority target. However, I do believe that this can be mitigated by basing the aircraft west of Kyiv, thus putting Ukraine's biggest concentration of surface to air missiles in the path of any potential large scale missile attacks. It is also worth noting that between their pre-war inventory, Patriot, IRIS-T SLM, SAMP/T, Hawk, Avenger, NASAMS and the ability to launch Sea Sparrow missiles from their Buk launchers, Ukraine actually has more surface to air missile systems available than they did at the start of the war, while having to cover a somewhat smaller area. Also, once more, the access to NATO recon assets comes into play, because you better believe that Ukraine will hear about any bomber or missile launch as soon as NATO recon or ELINT/SIGINT assets detect it.

Akabusi

We now know cheap drones have changed how wars are going to be fought for the foreseeable, it will be interesting what the US come up with in this aspect. Do they improve on the switchblade or start again or maybe come up with ways to defend against them. Probably all of the above and they have no better testing ground than Ukraine.

Right now the Gepard might be one such defence against the Lancets and the Russians own FPV drones. I know they are doing a job protecting against the Shaheds but would some be of use at the front lines as part of the offensive? The KA-52s would probqbly be the real danger to them.