Russia - threadbanned users in OP

m2_browning

People Before Profit

I present to you two stories

Then

https://www.thejournal.ie/people-before-profit-zelenskyy-speech-5731397-Apr2022/

Now

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/1122/1417930-palestine-dail-motion/

I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402470#Comment_121402470

RBB is a useless ponce

Polar101

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/status/1727380357824286770

But.. what about America?

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402061#Comment_121402061

Furze, when they stop in front of the apartment block that you live, in broad daylight, climb up the 10 floors to your apartment, making plenty of noise, break the door down, terrify the wife and kids and whoever else might be in the apartment with you, grab you and bounce you down the stairs and into a paddy wagon with other "refuseniks" already loaded, and that's it. You will do exactly what you are told. And guess what? All your fellow residents in the apartment block (and the surrounding blocks) will not even open their doors to see what all the commotion is about. Because they know exactly what is happening. They've seen it all before, many times. No one will call the police or make any kind of official complaint. And that's Vladimir Putin's Russia. Feeling suicidal? Publicly (or even privately under the present circumstances) all you have to do is criticize Putin or his war. Russian military is (or rather was) full of people who tried criticizing the either war or Putin. Russia is a terrorist state, and its known worldwide as such, but long before it got to that state, it first became a terrorist state at home, in Russia. While some undoubtedly do support Putin, there are many who don't, so don't go painting all Russians with the same brush. Some people seem to have an awful problem getting their heads around what Russia is like. Because they've lived their lives in Irish / Western society with it laws and democracy, they assume that the rest of the world is the same. It's not, and not by a long shot either. We've all seen what happened to Prigozhin (and many more) when they crossed Putin. Imagine what he can do to you, your family, your friends, your Neighbours, in fact anyone who is connected to you, even passing acquaintances or even complete strangers you sat beside on the metro???

Well, that's Don Putin's Russian Mafia.

Say my name

https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1727387456612253766?t=cVORGNMilCJbtEGElO3e6A&s=19

World's worst Russian drivers - military edition.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401750#Comment_121401750

Whoever replaces Putin will have to be King Rat. Thats what they saw about the barrel of rats isn't it? Put 20 or 30 rats into a barrel or cage, and when the last of the food is eaten, they will turn on each other, until the last surviving rat will be the Big Boss. There's supposed to be 27 so called private armies in Russia (just like Prigozhin's) Be interesting to see who the King Rat will be. Whoever it turns out to be, he will not have anything like the resources that Putin had in Feb 2022. And I'm fairly sure that will play a big part in what the successor can do.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403018#Comment_121403018

Well, there are pretty bad accidents on the roads in Russia, and that's in the height of summer. But in winter, aside from the atrocious driving conditions, The Vodka often makes up for no-functioning heaters, draughty cabins etc.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121401750#Comment_121401750

I think the interviews on 420 only work to a certain extent - no-one is going to say "I really hate Putin and am actively plotting to overthrow him". They are more likely to say he's such a great president. It's good entertainment, but we're not going to find out what most people really think.

That being said, the "rural" Russian types definitely come across as real Putinbots.

m2_browning

https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-viktor-orban-threatens-to-blow-up-eu-ukraine-policy-european-union/

That’s the face of someone being fisted by Putin ^

Anyways can’t the EU return the money destined to Ukrainian aid to EU countries based on their net contributions (which would rule Hungary out) and then those countries just happen to transfer it to the better Europeans to the east

Pa ElGrande

A lot of men die in war. In Ukraine there is a growing wall of the dead. In Russia, the list grows as well, this is from a cemetery somewhere in Russia.

Родина помнит : Motherland remembers.

Афганистан : Afghanistan

Чечня : Chechnya

Специальная военная операция : Special military operation

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403683#Comment_121403683

Rather telling that they can't use the word "Ukraine" there. It would be an admission that they're attacking another nation, while they cling onto the fiction that they're liberating an area that should actually be Russia anyway.

m2_browning

https://twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1727579930731467163

Why do these Russians even want to visited decadent Europe? Ain’t Russia the best country in whole world where average wage didn’t fall from 1500$ a month to $600 in last 9 years

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402999#Comment_121402999

Very well put.

What's convenient are people pontificating from behind a laptop screen in 1st world Ireland on what other ordinary people in an autocratic state should do. That's convenient for sure. And labelling them all as Nazis, wishing them all dead as fodder for Putin's meat grinder, salivating over images of their brutal slaughter on the front lines just, well that's as close to xenophobia as you'll get without wearing an I Vote Xenophobia badge. It's as though for some absolutely inexplicable reason people in Ireland in 2023 are afraid of being outed as a Red Under The Bed and feel the need to overcompensate in professing their support for Ukraine.

But hey, I'll stick ZZ in place of SS because I'm a hero.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121402999#Comment_121402999

As I noted, we covered it all before. Your explanation deals with why Russian citizens act as they do... but it doesn't absolve them from responsibility for the actions of their state. The defence that I'm only doing as I was ordered only holds up so far. Those who cheerlead and those who stand by are complicit and may take the consequences. If they want change, they can force change - it's happened before.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403819#Comment_121403819

And this is why Russians laugh at Europeans

Despite the constant insults and threats to wipe us out in a nuclear Armageddon for standing up and calling out their bullshit

There always be a small minority that self hate themselves so much they would stand up and defend modern day neo Nazis because when you go out far enough on far left you endup in the far right

Have some self respect and say no to fascism

But hey look at the bright side at least you can freely express your opinion in a public forum and have a discussion (unless Ukraine loses and Putin moves onto the next country on his path to Berlin)

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121403878#Comment_121403878

Yes, we have, and you still have not changed your views. Given the explanation in my post as to why ordinary Russian just can't force change, you are still not convinced and still repeating your mantra of All Russians are bad. Ordinary Russians have absolutely neither responsibility nor control over what Putin does. None whatsoever. I've lived in many Countries, and spent 4 years living and working in Russia, but in all my travels, I've never been stopped by the police as much as I was in Russia. Putin's police are simply cash collectors, covered with thin veneer of law. I pretty sure that you have never been to Russia, Furze99? Because for sure, had you ever been there, your opinion would not be that All Russians are complicit in Putin's war. last week, a Muscovite, Mark Inkeles went to a shooting range and shot himself. Two weeks earlier he had received his summons for military service, but faced with no choices, rather than go fighting (and most likely dying) for Putin, he killed himself. That's Putin's Mafia Country at work.

Pa ElGrande

Wars do not continue in stalemate forever. It is time to consider the outcome of different scenarios. Most people on this thread have speculated on their preferred outcome of a Putin regime collapse, are very reluctant for obvious reasons to consider a Ukrainian collapse. That nettle must be grasped.

Scenario 1: Zelensky regime collapses.

• Middle east war spreads, direct conflict with Iran, oil and gas shortage affects China and Western Europe
• China is now directly in the war, it's oil and gas supply lines are affected, it fact every country is.
• US election, domestic concerns, no support among American public for unwinnable wars, US political crisis, debt and inflation issues.
• Series of losses on battlefield, Russians consolidate the southern corridor to Crimea and expand into the remaining territory of the oblasts they annexed.
• Internal chaos in Kiev, blame game for losses, generals fired and army revolts or stops functioning rather than accumulate more losses.

Scenario 2: Putin regime collapses.

• WW I play. Putin cannot change course, more Russians dragged into frontline, morale collapses.
• No Bolsheviks to seize power this time, enough resources wasted, new internal armies fight it out with scraps for power (warlords) and civil war. 
• China provides security guarantee to the 'stan countries to protect them from the instability in Russia and protect supply lines.   
• Middle east is still a mess, Pakistan collapses, which it may do whatever outcome.   
• War expands, there is a territory grab while the opportunity presents itself. Turkey uses the opportunity to expand its borders, Syria collapses.

Scenario 3: China and United States come to an agreement on Middle East and new world order.

• Neocons sidelined, domestic economy issues (debt collapse) overhang both countries. 
• Cooler American heads prevail & compute the consequences of direct war with Iran, decide no. 
• China and USA agree on timeout direction of the new world order for the next decade.  
• China pulls Putin aside, USA pulls Zelensky aside. Domestic opinion inside both countries is amenable to compromise.
• Political change happens globally reflecting the new world order.

The possibility of collapse in Zelenskys government is not zero. Knowing that wars are too expensive to continue indefinitely, and must come to an end with either a victory for one party or a compromise among both. How could it happen? and what would be the fallout?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404159#Comment_121404159

Yes, yes, yes. But it is no defence!!! If our government ordered us tomorrow to hunt down and kill all 'insert whatever ethnic minority you want' in our state and we went ahead and did this and/or supported others in the dirty work, we would all be responsible for this. You can't simply absolve a population by saying that "Ordinary Russians have absolutely neither responsibility nor control over what Putin does. None whatsoever." It's understandable but it doesn't wash. I don't understand why you continuously defend this mindset - Russians know their history too and what happened a little over a century ago.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404326#Comment_121404326

I'd say your scenario #2 is most likely and after that #1.

Your third option would require a helluva lot of wheels to turn and change direction.

m2_browning

“Zelensky Regime” 😏

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404491#Comment_121404491

yeah, they just can't help themselves. 😁 Propaganda TV works well. Note how they set the order in their scenarios list. Ukraine first to fall. As always.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404468#Comment_121404468

Furze, you just don't get it do you? before Feb 22nd, and Putin's invasion, over 3 million Russians lived abroad, one of the highest expat populations in the world, since Feb 22, it's estimated that a further 2 million have left. They left because they were in a situation where change is impossible. It cannot even be spoken about. The nearest Government control of their population's that matches Putin's would be Kim Jung Un in North Korea. Do you seriously think that all North Koreans are responsible for what Kim (or his sister) does? Or do you believe that in NK there will be a revolt started by a nr of citizens???

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404491#Comment_121404491

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404721#Comment_121404721

Did you live in some form of anarchy? Presumably you expect your government follows some rules, social customs and behaviours i.e. a régime. If you want to use the term as exclusively meaning authoritarian government, well, Ukraine is in a state of war right now, as a consequence Zelenskys government has become authoritarian and people in Ukraine must live under the new rules imposed by Zelenskys regime.

Are you not able to confront your fears that the good guys don't always win wars? Is that why you refuse to consider the possibility, however abhorrent to you, that the war situation has developed not necessarily to Ukraine's advantage. Even with your bias in favour of Ukrainian victory, are you not capable of holding a second opinion that the outcome of the war may be different than you expect and should it come about what the consequences may be?

Are you so paranoid you are reduced to shouting "reds under the bed", You write off the worst scenario as Russian propaganda, why then put faith in other propaganda about the next wunderwaffen to deliver victory? These don't deliver victory, the other side has them as well.

https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1726177933386203140

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404906#Comment_121404906

No sorry, I just don't get it. I understand what you say but I don't believe that absolves them. You seem bent on making excuses for Russian citizens, nothing to do with us etc. And that ultimately does not wash. At the end of the day, Russian society is supporting Putin's Russia. And the regime can only continue with the acquiescence of citizens. You can argue that's enforced but it is still acquiescence and responsibility goes hand in hand with this. No state, not Russia nor North Korea is governable if the populace is largely against it. It's impossible.

m2_browning

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405034#Comment_121405034

That time in band camp the Brits and the Americans in 1940s became authoritarian because they were attacked by totalitarian fascist axis

/s

Your attempt at discrediting the democratically elected and wildly popular government of Ukraine, a government that has stood up to a neo fascist oligarchical criminal dictatorship of 24 years by a single ex KGB head of mafia who waltzed into the job without a vote is hilarious

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405034#Comment_121405034

They have been using the 500lb glide bombs for a while now along with other cluster munitions,the biggest issue now is the lack of aircraft to deliver said bombs on to Ukrainian positions , they do still have their long range bombers which they haven't really deployed other than to launch missiles from the Russian side of the black sea

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121404326#Comment_121404326

Zelensky was democratically elected in normal elections, bizarre use of the word "regime" there. Likewise some strange tangents.

It's widely assumed that if neither side's will/ability to fight doesn't completely collapse then the war will come to a negotiated end or (semi) frozen stalemate (like N/S Korea)

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405061#Comment_121405061

No. I explained the context of the term to you and if you look at the original post I also used "Zelensky government". The war it is not going well for either side, the economic and political situation is changing outside the "theater of operations". I have spoken to Ukranians in Ireland, they are mixed opinions, many are not happy that Zelensky has led them to this juncture, they support him because the present alternative (being conquered by Russia) is worse. I get the impression from them that even a victory for Ukraine, will end his political career.

pcardin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405034#Comment_121405034

apart from yourself, I have not seen anyone using "reds under the bed". That is a very strange sentence you keep shouting. Reminds me of something... EPA, EPA, EPA

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121405271#Comment_121405271

..