Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715535#Comment_118715535

FWIW the above post is pretty much letter perfect an example of what many if not most of the Russians I've known think to one degree or another. It's a near perfect script and doesn't require bots. The bot thing in many ways is a red herring. They don't really need them.

This is a good example of their WW2/Great patriotic war propaganda that never went away*.

It is now popular to say that Russia attacked Poland in WW2. I would say it was attacked but there were some reasons for it. How things would go if Russia did not attack Poland with Germany? Not sure, but splitting Poland makes some sense in terms of future German expansion eastward.

The stuff they've grown up listening to has developed a twisted logic all of its own that somehow makes sense. To them. This is what you end up when a people are lied to for generations and from birth. I mean you can get many millions to buy into a virgin birth so... Note he says: I would say it was attacked but there were some reasons for it. You could not make that level of cognative dissonance up. Imagine a German of today saying the same thing about carving up Poland but from their side? He probably glosses over the near end of the war Warsaw uprising where the Soviets were suspiciously keen to let it go on without them. Nor that Hitler and Stalin, both inhuman pricks had agreed to carve up the place before the war kicked off, or how Stalin crapped himself when the Germans invaded Russia, sat in Moscow with his special train running to get him to the East. Or how his purges cut the best heads of the Russian army even before the war. Their official history has him as this amazing strategist who brought the Germans into a pincer movement by clever thinking. Never mind that carving Poland up would have had little effect as a barrier to the Nazis. Try looking at a map with open eyes.

*Now the West has its own propaganda too of course. The Yanks think they won the European war and Hollywood thinks they won everything. Look at Saving Private Ryan. Great film, but I'm surprised the Germans were even in it. The British turned a total ballsup like Dunkirk where their army was squarely trounced and they had to run away. Claim the Battle of Britain was a close run thing(it wasn't. They would have tried hard to lose it and very nearly did). They also handily forget how they treated the Poles and Czechs after the war, including men and women that fought for them. The French make much of their famed resistance and if there were 20 men and women in it you'd be lucky and many of them weren't French. The Italians prefer to forget the whole thing and the Japanese got amnesia handed to them by the Americans, when it suited. Hell we Irish have our own. If the number of people whose great grandparents were in the GPO in Easter 1916, the queue to get into O'Connell street would have stretched to Wicklow town.

However the singular fundamental difference is I can say all of the above in the West, I can point to sources, I can publish a book, say it on telly, say it on here, rant away to my heart's content and I won't have a member of the KGusedtoB at my door. Worst crap I'll get is a downvote on reddit. So tell me Komrade, could I say similar in Mother Russia about the bull that's taken as fact there? Yeah, good luck with that.

Hobgoblin11

Kharkiv, Kherson and Mariupol are now likely encircled by Russian forces now and Kyiv will also be soon, we are about to witness multiple synchronized massacres across a country, the like of which has not been seen since WW2 or the Balkans war on a smaller scale, genocide?

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715736#Comment_118715736

“Some” oppression. Lol.

Katyn massacre. Pure savages

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715620#Comment_118715620

I mean seriously, they are chalk and cheese examples when it comes to the discussion of propaganda and biased reporting of facts.

Russia is invading a completely sovereign country on the most transparent excuses imaginable and is bombing civilian centres out of sheer desperation and frustration because none of this played out like they expected, or perhaps hoped.

Their own state media aren't reporting anything remotely close to the reality of what's happening.

Ukraine bigging up the accomplishments of their armed forces to boost morale while attacking enemy morale is hardly even remotely comparable.

More generally, do Russian people actually share such a level of paranoia of their President that they think every single country in the free world is part of some enormous global conspiracy against Russia....even countries in continents outside of North America and Europe.

Russia's only true vocal allies in all of this, tiny Belarus, it's dictator saved from being overthrown by Russian intervention recently, and Syria....well, we know how that went.

The simple reality is that Russia invaded it's neighbor on a non-existant pretext, no different to the one Germany used to invade Poland. It's that black and white. That is the narrative, regardless of what fibs Ukraine is telling in terms of its defense capabilities/achievements.

Everything, anything, that seeks to question or deflect that actual narrative, is just whataboutery.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715669#Comment_118715669

Vhat need haf Russian of egg McMuffin?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715672#Comment_118715672

What? Navalny, an opposition figure, was poisoned with Novichok in 2020. He's now residing in a Russian jail

The two men who were caught on CCTV in Salisbury on the day of Skripal poisoning, who claimed on Russian TV they were gym owners or some ****, a story which was backed by Putin, turned out to be two FSB agents (one of whom was decorated by Putin), their photographs left on the wall of the academy

You apparently know nothing about the incident, yet notice how you immediately try to cast doubt on it.

This is why people are sick of the Putinbots who come in here with their "I don't know what's going on, both sides are the same" BS.

Dohnjoe

https://twitter.com/KSaloomey/status/1498721661675352073?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498721661675352073%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_a108a8c4-9993-11ec-9056-c6411fdf9a7b%2F0

Mike3549

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715650#Comment_118715650

Jesus, where does the op sympathise nazis? But it is true, my grandparents said the same thing. Germans came, ate and drank everything, 2 days later they were paid for the damage. With russians youre lucky if youre still alive and not raped. Of course if youre jew, well then its a different story. German soldiers were brainwashed just like russians today, following their orders. Watch a 'Pianist', movie based on a true story about Polish jew pianist. Nazi general helped him with food and water, hid him from other nazis. Of course its a movie you say and even if its based on true story they usually make it look better/worse, but point stands, German soldiers were less evil to regular human being than russians in our eastern european non jewish experience

edit: theres a tiny little possibility that when we were in soviet union, we didnt like mother russia, our grandparents sweetened the story, or we were a bit brainwashed aswell

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715282#Comment_118715282

There was an Israeli man murdered yesterday, misindentified as a Chechen saboteur

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-headed-for-border-killed-in-ukraine-in-apparent-case-of-mistaken-identity-1.10642556?

https://5townscentral.com/2022/02/28/roman-brodesky-ah-tragically-killed-in-ukraine-today-in-mistaken-identity-incident/

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715719#Comment_118715719

The Geman's ran the place in a 'civilised way'? Was this during World War 2 when they butchered over 4 million Ukranian people and sent another 2.2 million of them back to Germany as nothing but slaves?

marieholmfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715505#Comment_118715505

Group cert in your case I think.

Richard Hillman

Boyd-Barrett, Murphy, Wallace, Daly et Al have been cheerleaded and promoted in the media for years. They have zip nationwide support but are constantly given platforms to for issues that the media are friendly too. When they come out with their batshit crazy things the Irish media turn a blind eye to them.

They created these monsters. I am not saying deplatform them, I don't believe in it. But FFS you can't just turn a blind eye for when they show their true colours, and promote them when they are saying things they agree with.

The more I think about it the more this was Putin saying “I want to negotiate with NATO”- he doesn’t give a sh1t about Ukraine- he wants to talk to the big boys - he set out to use Ukraine to get a strong negotiation position with NATO - and it’s gone tits up due to the dire sanctions and the resistance and the propaganda campaign of Ukraine

And now there’s no visible way back for him to save face- I’m worried now - there’s some green shoots with Russian Oligarchs coming out disagreeing with the invasion- hopefully they might forge a way forward

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715325#Comment_118715325

Great to see someone making an effort. Personally I think it would be better without the music with vocals. Human brains can't paralell process so a lot of any audience will get hooked on listening to the lyrics, rather than reading the text. Dark, sombre and threatening music would better suit the subject matter.

Something more like The Art of Noise - Instruments of Darkness.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715755#Comment_118715755

What do you do if you're the Ukrainian government at this stage? Capitulate to these scumbags? Obviously no one wants to do that.

But refuse to surrender and in the process risk seeing countless thousands of your compatriots killed for a war that without outside military intervention that is clearly not coming you have no chance of winning? Not to mention the destruction of all the infrastructure, culture, etc.

An absolutely no-win situation.

What chance do Zelensky, Klitschko etc even have of getting out of Kiev alive if the city is encircled? Are they determined to go down fighting and take half the country with them?

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715790#Comment_118715790

A in Higher level History. No idea what a group cert is. Sounds like something only geriatrics would be familiar with.

Kermit.de.frog

Statement from Russian deserter

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715788#Comment_118715788

That division of Poland between Prussia, Austria and Russia ended in 1922. Yes the German and Austrian rulers were very civilised by the standards of WW2. Don't confuse pre 1922 with 1939-45.

marieholmfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715797#Comment_118715797

You fight and keep fighting.

Bluntly Putin has ignored the Ukranians, well you keep fighting and ensure that he's dragged down and that you (Ukranians) are never ignored again.

Channel 4 News- evidence of use of cluster bombs by Russian - Russia hasn’t signed up to not using these so no surprises their using them now

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715650#Comment_118715650

The average Pole has an equal opportunities hatred for both the Nazi and Soviet regime. 22'000 of the Polish intelligesnsia were butchered in the Katyn massacre designed to extinguish an independent Polish state forever as a going concern. That killing happened in occupied Ukraine fyi, largely in the city of Kharkiv, the place getting carpet bombed by Russia this very day.

Uncle Joe Stalin had some ok PR in the west after WW2, in Poland he never did.

Putin and the modern Russian state is fond of playing down that massacre. It rankles against their self image as the saviours of Europe in WW2.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715378#Comment_118715378

If the Russian soldiers weren't in Ukraine, they wouldn't get humiliated, now would they? Cluster munitions are being dropped on schools and shopping centres and mother watches her daughter die in the back of an ambulance and your concern is humilitaion of the invaders responsible? Just go do something very impolite, would you.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715473#Comment_118715473

I think you may need to read that comment again.

marieholmfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715810#Comment_118715810

The partitions of Poland? This is getting absurd.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715788#Comment_118715788

If I'd wanted to mention WWII I would have done but bash away at that keyboard!

is_that_so

Former Russian Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev has called on Russian diplomats to resign in protest over the war in Ukraine. He was FM under Yeltsin.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715824#Comment_118715824

Play the ball not the man- if you have an issue with any of my points then debate them. Not run immediately for the gutter of insults.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715810#Comment_118715810

Yeah, we'd be all much better off ignoring the Total Holocaust that happened there less than 80 years ago and concentrate on some benign entity that ruled there 200 years ago instead. Makes total sense.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715690#Comment_118715690

I think you're mistaking my perspective. I don't think there's no objective truth about the facts of whats happeningat the moment. Events are happening and there are facts about those events, but how are we going to find the facts? In a war, I don't think anyone is obliged to relay the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Neither our own side or the enemy is obliged to do that and I don't expect either of them will do it. Do you think the Ukranians will give a warts and all account of what's happening? I don't, nor do i expect the Russians to do so. So how do you or I find out the facts?

The second point, which i think you're missing, is that there are overarching narratives which both sides tell themselves to paint themselves as the hero. These only need to be based on a kernel of truth and the rest can be complete storytelling, using selected facts from current events, or just lies, to fit the narrative. Knowing that narrative of both your own side and the enemy's side is important.

But back to the first point, how do you and I, as people thousands of miles away from the events, try to find out the objective truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth? I'm not sure it's possible in a warzone but you seem to think you can find it so, how would you do it?

Strazdas

Nearly everyone in Kyiv is of the opinion that Russia will never take the city. People there are armed to the hilt and ready and waiting - best the Russians can probably achieve is a blockade of the city.