Russia - threadbanned users in OP

More ripple effects. Italian steel mills and papermills had to close last week due to soaring energy costs.

If this conflict goes on for mcuh longer, things are going to reach a point where we will have to transition to a war time economy to keep European manufacturing going. This will solve the labor shortage in manufacturing, but it will also mean massive government support (on top of all the Covid supports given over the past two years). It could also mean rolling blackouts for consumers, IMO, as energy is focused on manufacturing.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-italy-milan-lifestyle-5f7febf726aa02df8cb9d9599cfe3912

Italian paper mills that make everything from pizza boxes to furniture packaging ground to a halt as Russia’s war in Ukraine has sent natural gas prices skyrocketing. And it’s not just paper. Italian steel mills, likewise, turned off electric furnaces last week. And fishermen, facing huge spikes in oil prices, stayed in port, mending nets instead of casting them.

mzungu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781083#Comment_118781083

China selling arms to Russia wouldn’t be a “moral” issue for China.

Oh crikey, absolutely. That wasn't my point. China have their interests and morals do not feature in the equation. No question.

However, selling arms to Russia may rock the boat as regards trade with the West. That would be an issue for them.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781325#Comment_118781325

I would suggest people across the EU would be prepared to accept all this. The priority has to be that the Russian tyrant is defeated and withdraws from Ukraine, even if it sets off a recession (think how dangerous things would be for Europe if he won).

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781327#Comment_118781327

I don't think the West can afford to go to heavy on sanctions against China if China elects to help Russia. So much of what we use on a daily basis is made in China. Diplomacy is a particularly fine balancing act in a globalised supply chain.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781194#Comment_118781194

I guess we will have to wait change at the top when ever that will come, but come it will. And then you will see all roads leading to the Kremlin chock a block with humanity.

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781282#Comment_118781282

Yep seen that, if there is one person more traitorous and evil to his own people that Putin it's that cnuk , lets hope he has a "glorious" death

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781200#Comment_118781200

The Russians are already there in Moldova,

And oddly enough American bought the majority of the Moldovan mig29s back in the 90's , Moldova can't afford to keep and fly an airforce ,

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781324#Comment_118781324

They launched missles Into Ukraine in support of Russia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781340#Comment_118781340

Oh yes, agreed. I share those stories to put it out there that we need to prepare for these things and be ready to help out (not to suggest that we stop supporting Ukraine). I think it will be worse than a recession, BTW, and because of how broken the supply chains are and the incredible levels of debt held by Western governments, I thought this before Russia invaded Ukraine.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781366#Comment_118781366

No. But they could park them in the sheds and then if the Russians start acting the bollix, they could accept a few Ukrainian refugees that happen to be qualified pilots.

It would give the Russians some "excuse" to invade Moldova as well, but I don't think that that would be as important a consideration given what they have already done.

I'm being overly simplistic of course, but I'm sure there might be some way.

riffmongous

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781282#Comment_118781282

Fake I think, since I'm not seeing it mentioned on any Chechen resistance websites

firemansam4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781316#Comment_118781316

That is a grim prospect of how life might be under a Russian puppet regime. And some people here question why the Ukrainians would want to fight against that.

maebee

I used to scoff at the great "Re-set the world" crew during covid. I don't think that crew had Putin in mind.

Snails pace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781036#Comment_118781036

I second that. I have operated Chinese built machinery and it was awful and unsurprisingly, unreliable.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781340#Comment_118781340

Rather some people are prepared to accept it. Or they say they will accept it until what the reality of the sacrifice bites.

We've seen this before, plenty of people talking a great game on climate and emissions but when push comes to shove, the third city break in a year and fast fashion wins out.

cnocbui

The BBC news quoted China as saying they were only interested in actions that deescalate the conflict, when asked about supplying arms to Russia.

RGARDINR

Will be interesting in regards to China. At the end of the day the world wouldn't be able to function if massive sanctions were placed on Chinese companies if this was threatened to them if they did help Russia. Now I suppose it depends if China wants to take the gamble if they do and for arguments sake they risked this happening. Russia losing this war and been made to retreat back to Russia would be the worse outcome for China I believe as if that's the case Russia will be in its worse shape in decades and have lost a war for no gains. Would mean America would be able to fully focus on China and Taiwan and probably not have to worry about Russia for 10 to 20 years as will probably take them that long to get back off their knees from this. China supplying Russia with weapons would keep Russia up and running in the invasion front and have America spending more time and effort in Europe then in South East Asia and that will suit the Chinese down to the ground as they will get ever stronger there. They may say to the Americans well your supplying Ukraine with weapons why can't we supply Russia with weapons. The longer this war continues the better for them and the outcome they would want is Russia winning compared to Ukraine. The last thing they would like in Russia is putin removed and someone more friendly to the west then to them.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781152#Comment_118781152

I think you're being unduly optimistic here. If the Russians manager to encircle Kiev completely they will likely just shell/starve the city into submission, however long it takes. No reason for friendly fire incidents if the troops stay at the perimeter until the resistance collapses.

Curious_Case

RIP Valentina Pushich. a Ukrainian doctor killed in battle 5 days ago.

Putin should swing for this alone.

Gatling

I wonder how lushenko is feeling at the moment ,now putin is begging the Chinese for help ,he must be down to a 3star private now on Putins army

AxleAddict

I'm curious, let's assume for the sake of argument that Putin's forces either accidentally or deliberately targeted a NATO country - right now I'm thinking of the military targets near the Polish border - and triggered an Article 5 response, would NATO restrict any retaliatory action to targets within Ukraines borders only, or given that Russia is the aggressor here, would it be free to identify and target forces within Russia (or Belarus) itself?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781520#Comment_118781520

It would be an act of war ,Nato could anilate Russian forces in Ukraine to protect nato borders and prevent further attacks

Curious_Case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781503#Comment_118781503

I have a feeling Kyiv won't fall.

I'm hoping a decision has been made somewhere to save Kyiv at all costs, perhaps a "Western" entity can provide protection for UN air drops?

Dohnjoe

So Russia, a military superpower, with a 10 to 1 material advantage, has asked for direct help from: Belarus, Chechnya, Syria, various mercenaries, Wagner paramilitary group, China

The Ukrainians really putting up a hell of a fight.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781528#Comment_118781528

Would they though, or would they just do a limited retaliation on the scale of the Russian action and make it clear that was it if Russia didn't repeat the 'error'.

Dohnjoe

Good piece here on how life is already getting more expensive in Russia

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60647543

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781556#Comment_118781556

I think they will make a very make a very painful point ,

This will be the test of Nato that either strengthens and cements the alliance or it could break it,if they don't responds in a manner that nobody else ever threatens a NATO state again

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781553#Comment_118781553

They'll be asking for aid from the charities next. The next Trocaire box will have a little picture of Putin's face on it: 'Help Vladimir to take Ukraine'.

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781513#Comment_118781513

Her life will have meaning beyond her passing

Botrys

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781553#Comment_118781553

It's a bit more complex than that,

but what seems to be the main problem is Vladimir Putin and not the Russian military capabilities.

In my opinion he himself managed to humiliate the russian military and undermined the Russian Federation as the superpower we though of it to be.

From what we've seen so far,

His generals and the ministry of defense were caught off guard, the invasion was only planned in Putin's mind, so basically the army was unprepared,

The invasion wasn't properly planned.

The troops were lied to, they were told they were on an exercice right until the moment they got the order to cross the border, imagine what this does to morale.

However their biggest screw up was the intelligence Putin was receiving,

It was tailored to his own liking, this was shown very clearly during his security council meeting while he (Putin) forced Naryshkin to tell him exactly what he wanted to hear. All intelligence that Putin received pointed out that the Ukrainians will lay down their arms and surrender at the first sight of a russian soldier. -- this can also be proven after the news of the heads of his intelligence service placed in house arrest 'for telling him what he only wanted to hear'.

Another thing that he did not expect, was the Americans and the west standing up to him the way they did, first with all the advanced weaponry they kept on sending to the Ukrainians, but also the unprecedented sanctions he got slapped with.

I remember very well, Biden going on TV since last December telling the world multiple times that Putin is going to invade, 'we got the intel', 'we're declassifying some intel', He even once said something along the lines of 'Putin is planning a minor invasion to which there will be minimal response from the west, but a full scale invasion will be met with a very harsh response'

To me this sounded like an invitation or a green light for Putin to invade, so he took the bite and fell in the trap. the west's response came in the moment his troops crossed the border and i think it is at that moment Putin switched from a minor 'small scale' operation to a full scale invasion and from there everything started going downhill.

Yes the Russian military got humiliated, however i believe that their problem is Putin and only Putin.