Russia - threadbanned users in OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607447#Comment_118607447

How many 5 gen aircraft does Russia have again vs NATO?

Or should i say how many aircrafts in total does Russia have vs NATO

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607467#Comment_118607467

While on the subject of Generals and their statements, heres a Russian one for you... Or is it only the US / Nato ones that count? ( and then only when they say something negative about US military preparedness???} Personally, BurgerFace, I'd say that the back room Battle planning boys have been planning scenarios like this for years, and especially since 2014. Anyway. here's Leonid Grigoryevich Ivashov fo you.

The colonel-general of the Russian Federation, Leonid Grigoryevich Ivashov, who is also the chairman of the Assembly of Officers, has said that the leadership is not able to pull Russia out of the systemic crisis.

Ivashov states in a public letter that the situation in Ukraine is of a mercenary nature.

"The leadership of the country [President Vladimir Putin], realizing that it is not able to pull the country out of the systemic crisis, then this could lead to a popular uprising and a change of regime.

"Through the support of the oligarchs, corrupt officials, the lure of the media and the security forces, decided to activate the political line for the eventual destruction of Russian statehood," Ivashov wrote.

Head of All-Russian Officers' Assembly, Leonid Ivashov, called on Russian leadership not to use force against Ukraine in an open letter to Putin and Russians.

Ivashov's comments refute all of Putin's claims and basically call him a liar.

Surreal

Source: https://t.co/vJWZZBMuMF

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604004#Comment_118604004

The EU deal was designed to have the IMF fleece Ukraine and hand their most fertile farmland over to Monsanto. The terms were onerous. If his decision was taken in bad faith then what has that got to do with the EU? If it was taken in good faith what still has that got to do with the EU? He wasn't run out of town because he was was robbing his country blind at the expense of Ukrainian Joe Sixpack in order to facilitate Russian plunder. He was run out because he would do that for the EU.

Gatling

This video says a lot

https://youtu.be/1JNtiO7nhmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607884#Comment_118607884

https://www.reuters.com/article/russia-capitalism-gas-special-report-pix-idUSL3N0TF4QD20141126

The Firtash story is more than one man’s grab for riches. It demonstrates how Putin uses Russian state assets to create streams of cash for political allies, and how he exported this model to Ukraine in an attempt to dominate his neighbour, which he sees as vital to Russia’s strategic interests. With the help of Firtash, Yanukovich won power and went on to rule Ukraine for four years.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604315#Comment_118604315

Oh yeah, but the excuse is always that they've got the right to move troops around their own country, and if they happen to invade a neighbour, it's only because they were provoked to do so.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603838#Comment_118603838

It's the Oh-Macron variant.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607572#Comment_118607572

You seem to think that's it's simply a numbers game. How many tanks did Hizbollah have versus the IDF Merkava in 2006? None.

Why do US Generals think that the US would be defeated in a conventional land war. Again I'm no military expert but there are more than one ways to skin a cat. Any fool could tell you that. US Generals will admit that Russian anti aircraft missiles, artillery etc are superior. If the Russians are so good at blowing a passenger airliner out of the sky then I would imagine they have plenty more tricks to knock out anything else. I don't know. Where do these vaunted 5G fighters fuel themselves? Where do they take off from and land. Target a few airstrips with missiles and that's the end of that. Are they all going to fly in from aircraft carriers in the Med? Another missile on the deck of that and that's the end of that launching pad. American troops on the ground will effectively be on their own. Any medevac helicopters shot down. Any field hospitals shelled Again these are the observations of AMERICAN military analysts, not me.

You would do better to maybe read Sun Tzu and not brag about capabilities that you think you have. The same "we'' kick anyone's ass" nonsense has been barfed out for 40 years and on each occasion it has shown to test American embarrassment and arrogance.

Just saw there that Hungary is refusing to allow further NATO deployments onto their soil as part of this Ukraine pantomime. NATO is looking more and more toothless and full of bull with each passing day.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118608878#Comment_118608878

Are you saying that a country DOESN'T have the right to put their own armies wherever they want within their own country? It may be unusual or suspicious but it isn't against international law.

shillyshilly

@BurgerFace do you gaslight this much in real life too?

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118607482#Comment_118607482

That, and I seem to recall it was a few years ago, when the US was a bit distracted with other problems. The US Army has since started the largest re-organisation since the Cold War (Back to Divisions!), V Corps (US Army Europe Command) was re-activated a couple years ago and declared fully operational three months ago, and new equipment has hit the field to deal with the new fun toys that seem to be flying around (Esp Drones, missiles, etc).

I would be extremely cautious about using an assessment from five years ago, when it was already well acknowledged that the US had moved a bit too far away from conventional warfighting and applying it to today's state.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609029#Comment_118609029

Ah you mean the overhyped s400 system thats never been tested in combat and the swedes have seen trough,or the overhyped hypersonic super weapons that Putin likes to brag about thats the same but doesnt work the same?

Or the s300/400/Pantsirs that Israel flyes circles around in Syria and Iran?

Or the old Su27 flying with vaccuum tubes or the desperate try to make an AESA radar to catch up with the west.?

Or the R77 missiles that India still laughs about together with the attempt to make a stealth fighter!

President Orban is very popular in Hungary for his double play and backstabbing,he must be loved by his people.

Amazing people like you that hates the country you live in,why dont you move to Russia,Einstein.

https://hungarytoday.hu/putin-orban-meeting-moscow-russia-hungary-russian-hungarian-relations/

Fierce bang of 'My Daddy is bigger than your Daddy' off this thread. I guess the proxy war has started already.

Dohnjoe

Putin's $100 million superyacht has left Germany before repairs were done, some speculating it's to avoid possible sanctions. Whatever people say about him, I think it's inspiring how much he manages to save on a $300k annual salary.

Gatling

@BurgerFace Just saw there that Hungary is refusing to allow further NATO deployments onto their soil as part of this Ukraine pantomime....

No what they said was they don't need Nato troops deployed , because Nato troops are already deployed In Hungary.

timmyntc

There will be no full on war with Russia - if there were, it would pull China into the mix and NATO do not want that.

They want to stifle the influence of Russia and China, but not to go to war with them (certainly not together)

Under Trump there was a weird shift in diplomacy toward Russia, and a ramping up of anti-china rhetoric - likely because they realised that China are a bigger threat than Russia to US global hegemony, and that cosying up to Putin would make it easier to sanction and isolate the PRC.

Now Russia and China are closer than ever, looking at building pipelines, roads, and even shipping routes together - and they would certainly go to war to protect the other from NATO.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609334#Comment_118609334

He's the Russian Eddie Hobbs.

shillyshilly

4 x B-52's in UK airspace, landing at Fairford later today ... rumour of 4 more

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/vladimirputin/video-2608603/Video-Vladimir-Putin-warns-possible-nuclear-war-Ukraine-joins-NATO.html

https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/08/vladimir-putin-threatens-nuclear-war-in-europe-if-ukraine-joins-nato-16066912/

So, there you have it. Two major world leaders in a press conference, and one of them says that he is willing - albeit reluctantly - to resort to a nuclear strike against NATO because his conventional forces cannot hope to match NATO's. This is what's missing in so much analytical commentary on this topic. The nukes.

Kermit.de.frog

Ukraine is a sovereign country and should be allowed chart it's own destiny no matter what way that is whether toward the west or Russia.

Russia is once again terrorising their neighbours who are used to it.

If it's Ukraine today, and that's allowed by the free world, it will be Poland and the Baltics tomorrow.

Appeasement doesn't work with autocrats.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610218#Comment_118610218

NATO bases and missiles based in Ukraine would pose an existential threat to Moscow.

Cuba is a sovereign country and should be allowed chart it's own destiny, but when the Russians were shipping missiles there? Nope, not allowed. Ukraine getting NATO membership is the same thing.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610246#Comment_118610246

Can't both things be wrong?

Or are you one of those....

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610246#Comment_118610246

Latvia and Estonia are right on the border of Russia and are members of NATO

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609029#Comment_118609029

It is a numbers game especially when the "hizbollah" side of the argument in this case are vastly superior in numbers quality and pilot training hours.

Russia might have some initial success but once NATO ramped up to full scale the Russian Airforce would be wiped out leaving there ground forces to be mopped up and into the bargain russia cant afford a sustained war with the west there economy would collapse. Even if they "turned off the gas" germany only gets 36% of there gas from russia again it d be initially annoying but would be resolved and russia would be the ones suffering from turning off the gas as there economy is heavily dependant on the export of gas and oil.

So yeah in short a determined west easily mops the floor with Russia in a conventional war.

Putin will be backing down from this war and the west will concede nothing.

Derkaiser93

Timmy and Burger face with mental gymnastics, whatabouterry and constant deflection to protect and side with the likes of Putin and now throwing in Orban into the mix. What angry ,horrible little men you are. Give your heads a wobble lads

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610246#Comment_118610246

How do you figure that? considering all western powers have "doomsday" weapons that can reach moscow as is, they would be no more a "existential" threat than the current status qou

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610282#Comment_118610282

Whatever the squibbling about who's balls are bigger.

Putin must be experiencing severe issues due to the lockdown the last year, economically or otherwise its clearly one of the major triggers for his cling to power actions. What impact has covid had to the economy / those that prop him up.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610294#Comment_118610294

Obviously we don't know what's going on inside the inner circle, but I don't think there are any signs that Putin is under threat. Maybe he's just shaking things up, he has everything to gain from this build-up; Puts him front and centre as leader, distracts from domestic issues, appeases nationalists and hardliners, possibly gets concessions from the West, gets the military moving.

Obviously it would be economic suicide to actually invade, but as mentioned, I very much doubt he will. Bringing it to the brink brings him benefits, going over it doesn't.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610269#Comment_118610269

Yes, but until recently neither had any long range missiles on their territory.

Estonia purchased Israeli cruise missiles last year - no doubt Putin is feeling the squeeze and looking to avoid a similar striking capability from being deployed in Ukraine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610289#Comment_118610289

Long range "doomsday" weapons can be detected even if not intercepted, but having stuff at such short range (Kiev, Estonia, Latvia etc) could wipe out Moscow before they even get a chance to shelter or retaliate.

BluePlanet

Putin has unambiguously communicated that he sees that NATO, the US led anti Russian org as a security threat to his nation, due to NATO's continual expansion toward the Russian border.

It's really up to NATO to respond. They can't claim they didn't receive any notice.

If they want to keep on pushing him, grand so. Don't be surprised if the Russian bear lashes out then.