Russia - threadbanned users in OP

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799473#Comment_118799473

Not disagreeing with any of your analysis - just pointing out that for the 'home' side in a war like this a draw is a win... they just have to lose more slowly than the Russians.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799432#Comment_118799432

Nope, but he's not being hysterical in comparing Hitler with putin either. Just in Hitler's invasion of Russia he was responsible for the deaths of over four million Russians before they started to fight back and turn the tide. Two million Russian POWs alone were starved to death under the 'care' of his troops. In the first three days of that invasion they shot down over three thousand Russian aircraft and few of them lived to tell the tale. Then his state sanctioned killing squads targeting Jews and communists. Many hundreds of thousands of men women and children were murdered under that particular jackboot. And then we had the general murders of anyone who looked funny at them. And that's just Russia and the first half of that campaign.

Bayonet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799451#Comment_118799451

You're dealing with hypotheticals here. My understanding of Putin is that he views Ukraine as Russian territory. He wants the empire back. He doesn't want to eradicate ethnic Ukrainians.

Can a brutal, murderous dictator be a brutal murderous dictator without being a Nazi? yes.

liamtech

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1504551641676238852

More help from Belarus Opposition fighters -

Slava_Ukraine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799473#Comment_118799473

I went for a pint for the first time in years 3 weeks ago. Rural pub and the war had just started. When it came up in conversation I explained that Ukraine will never submit. Ever.

This is what we are seeing.

Bayonet

Funny hats at sausage party showing support for Ukraine

https://twitter.com/Caucasuswar/status/1504567320215232517?s=20&t=Aeakc_MhBIepX42aR-M3Yw

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799399#Comment_118799399

It's an exact replay of the Red terror at the start of the 1920s.

The language from Putin is a near replica of the 20s Trotsky and Lenin , even his use of the Dzerzhinsky Division, which is answerable to him directly. Iron Felix is still remembered in the Ukraine, his savagery.

Pretending Putin is a new Hitler misreads him, ignores history and his attachment to the power of the Soviet Union, in action or word there is countless examples from the leadership of the Soviet Union and especially in relationship to murder and terror in the Ukraine that leave what he is currently doing in the hapenny place.

Putin sees himself as a strong leader in the Soviet Union style, that's his upbringing and his inspiration and what he is replicating.

Bayonet

This isn't an army that's winning.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1504570141832630277?s=20&t=Aeakc_MhBIepX42aR-M3Yw

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799491#Comment_118799491

I agree some of the language and Russian propaganda has echoes of the 30s.

Indeed, though like you say you can find that in a lot of cultures and especially autocratic ones. Hell, in the 50's the Americans were freaking out about the "other", "Reds under the bed" and cancelling people as suspected commies and their paranoia leaked into Hollywood with the spate of alien invasion and takeover by collective zombies stuff like Invasion of the Body Snatchers and the like. The "other" and "fifth columns" are notions that seem to be quite close to the surface in the human psyche.

Bayonet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799526#Comment_118799526

Right. So your argument is that this is JUST LIKE Nazism. Besides it's making my head melt trying to figure out if a denazification process is Nazism.

Can we just agree he's an evil murderous dictator and we'll wait until the fog of war has lifted to see what atrocities have been committed and decide on the Nazi credentials thereafter.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799532#Comment_118799532

That’s blown to smithereens. Whatever tech the Ukrainians have must be deadly. Think that’s what driving Putin even more nuts is the supply of kit they are getting and have. Russian technology is no match for the west

Bayonet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799545#Comment_118799545

Hell I've used language like "5th column" against hard leftists and ultra right wingers. I've othered the **** out of people. We're all capable for sure. We're all just one step to the side of savagery. All it takes are the right circumstances and the right leader to channel rage, frustration etc and we become primal beasts!

Bayonet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799558#Comment_118799558

They aren't even adapting tactics. 3 weeks in and still doing the same thing and getting blown to bits. STILL haven't got air superiority with their 1000 super duper jets.

Bayonet

They'll line the roads for us, they said. Hand us flowers...

https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1504573184116408320?s=20&t=Aeakc_MhBIepX42aR-M3Yw

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799532#Comment_118799532

https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1504467522711552004

Nice little counter attack there too - they could cut some Russians off - Im following this guys site - its independent but he cites several reputable sources -

https://militaryland.net

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799525#Comment_118799525

Has Google translate gone to 💩

corkie

@Wibbs

And where is the Ukrianian artillery? One video of them hitting a group of trucks and another group of infantry with mortars seems to be it so far. Where are the Ukrainian tanks for that matter? Most of what we've been seeing from Ukraine has been either infantry attacks with anti tank missiles, drone hits and one light tank/personnel carrier taking out two similar. Clearly it's working as the invaders have been bogged down in a few places.

Maybe they are not showing footage of that, so not to give away locations of the same.

Some one keeps posting out of date 'Military' losses, so they have been active?

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799501#Comment_118799501

Hitler saw parts of Poland the Czechslovakia as parts of Germany too so he decided to take it all because he could. He had no intention of ethnically cleansing them either. Just the undesirables like the Jews, gypsies and any who might cause him hassle.

Ad I said, I and many others would view Putins actions in these 4 weeks on par or exceeding the first 4 weeks of Hitlers jaunt through Europe. It was almost two years in before he unleashed his true horrors on the world. Let's hope this lunatic doesn't make it that far.

DontHitTheDitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799473#Comment_118799473

Russia still has massive firepower, but can it really divert even the majority of it to Ukraine? The mass movement of tanks and aircraft to eastern Poland means Putin can't leave that massive border exposed, nor the border with China or the coast with Japan. He also needs to keep considerable numbers of troops near the big cities in case of violent protests. He's also made threats against Sweden and Finland when they moved closer to joining NATO.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799526#Comment_118799526

I suppose his point is that even the German army were a pale imitation of the savagery that Soviet Russia inflicted in the Ukraine and more than once and that Putin is consistently using the language of that time.

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799494#Comment_118799494

Just to add a bit of a health warning to this. The guy behind Oryx only adds vehicles as destroyed/abandoned/captured when there is visual evidence of the loss of said vehicle. That means that the speed at which new losses appear on that site reflects the availability of images, not the speed at which the vehicles are being lost.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799491#Comment_118799491

Nazism isn't so much about the bodycount. It's about the ideology behind it, which is an unholy mix of ethnic supremacism, some pseudo-historic "wrong" that needs to be put right, total dehumanisation of any "other" element, big-business capitalism, elements of socialism, complete supremacy of the state and a total disregard for the individual. Like it or not, all of that is present in the Kremlin's propaganda at the moment. You mentioned in another comment that Putin does not want to wipe out Ukrainians and while that may be right at the moment, Russian propaganda has been VERY vocal in wanting do destroy Ukraine as a cultural entity, something that could very well devolve into genocide at a later point if it turns out that Ukrainians aren't willing to give up their distinct language and customs. Nazism wasn't born when Auschwitz opened, it was born when "Mein Kampf" was published.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799537#Comment_118799537

Gays, I knew it was them even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799532#Comment_118799532

Very hard to understand how the Russians would allow these extremely small convoys to be separated like this and exposed to basically flying columns of men armed with rpgs. Its a complete turkey shoot. I'm glad they're this stupid but it's hard to fathom.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799526#Comment_118799526

Erm Putin literally went on tv talking of denazification (how you think that would happen) and that Ukraine is not a country and Ukrainians are not people and is killing people on an industrial scale while causing millions to flee in a form of ethnic cleansing for his future settlers

More hysterics and not a little BS. Please point out where putin said Ukraine is not a country. Please point out where putin said Ukrainians are not a people. People are being killed, and yes murdered on a daily basis, not least his own people by righteous defenders because of a dictator flexing his muscle, but it's not close to "killing people on a industrial scale". Yet. Thank Christ. And he planned that millions would flee in "a form of ethnic cleansing for his future settlers"? Never mind the huge numbers of Ukrainians related to and living in Russia herself and vice versa and in her own army that just might notice that. If anything one of the biggest misreads by putin and his bully boys was thinking far more Ukrainians would welcome them, or at least not stand in their way when they made their moves. For the craic look at how they prosecuted their invasion of Chechnya, particularly the second time around. Now that was far more like a "Hitler" move, where they regarded the locals as far more "other" and was killing people on an industrial scale. Utter disaster that this invasion is thank the fates putin and his minions have so far played this quite differently.

Bayonet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799602#Comment_118799602

Hitler spent years building the machine of war and years turning his country. The book burnings and Kristallnacht were before war broke out. I don't think Putin set out to murder lots of Ukrainians. I think he mistakenly thought he could take Ukraine with ease, in a matter of days.

Was Milosevic Hitler? you see what I mean. If everyone is Hitler/Nazis, then no one is.

PrzemoF

2M refugees in Poland

There will be courses of Polish language for Ukrainian teachers starting next week

Please go to https://1920.in and use the tool to send texts/emails/whatsapps to random Russians.

If you want to know why 1920:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War

and what was Squad 303:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Squadron_RAF

threeball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799665#Comment_118799665

It seems you want an identikit Hitler in order to put someone in the same bracket. Jailing 15,000 people who oppose your view, isn't enough, jailing and killing political opponents doesn't cut it either, illegally invading neighbouring countries, killing with impunity, imprisoning entire cities and firing upon any trying to escape even in agreed humanitarian corridors. Threatening to purge his own country. None of these rings even the faintest of hitleresque alarm bells.

No sounds nothing like the man really

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799665#Comment_118799665

You are right. The people who make the Hitler comparisons really look uneducated and feebly lacking in imagination. Nor is Putin Stalin, although some of the rhetoric is similar.

But Putin is Putin and we can't yet see him in his broad historical context. He's been in power for 20 years, most people here didn't know the first thing about him till one month ago and now they all seem to be experts on him and the laziest option is always the Hitler one

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799602#Comment_118799602

The thing about egotistical monsters is given half the chance they'll be quite clear in telling people what they want to do and will do if they get power. Hitler did. He was quite clear about "removing" Jewry and bolsheviks from Germany and the world from the start. He was also quite clear about expanding east and building a European empire. Anyone who had listened to his speeches of read Mein Kampf would not be exactly surprised.

The gowl in the Kremlin has also been quite clear too. He hankers for the USSR. He sees Ukraine as a "brother of Russia". First in a nice way when his puppet was in charge. Then in a threatening way when they weren't. He's also been quite clear about his anger and concern over Ukraine on his doorstep cozying up to NATO and the Americans(and the EU). Even went on about how a missile site in Ukraine would shorten the flight time to Moscow to ten or twenty minutes. The both sides breaking of the Minsk agreement and the shítshow that was and is the Donbas, where again both sides were murderous pricks.

Oh well Ukraine should be alllowed joined NATO!! Yep, they should indeed be, until that butts up against realpolitik. If Mexico voted in a Russian friendly government and started to bring in Russian military contractors and was boosting her army, after agreeing they wouldn't get into that sort of relationship back in the day. How do you think America would react? Christ they built a wall to keep out "Mexican rapists". Russian friendly fifth column Mexican rapists? That would give them an apoplexy. Look how they reacted to Cuba. Came close to nuclear war over it and failed to invade it and tried to starve it out and had all sorts of weird plots to kill Castro(and then quietly shoved nukes into Turkey). Hell America prosecuted numerous murderous proxy wars across South America for decades after WW2 and up until recently to hold back the "Commies". They backed and supplied materiel and "advisors" to murderous dictators who killed thousands of their own people, so long as they were on their side.

And before someone wheels out that tired old saw of whataboutry because it's a lot easier than coming up with a cogent argument: I do NOT condone putin's murderous invasion of the soveriegn nation of Ukraine. I think putin is a piratical thug that keeps his own people down while lining him and his minion's pockets. He is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent Ukrainians, men women and children and his own troops. The day the headline reads "Putin is Dead!" will get a happy salute on his trip to hell from me. However and outside of his beyond stupid and murderous reaction to all this, all this did not magically come out of the sky on the wings of fairies. There are reasons and many of his people even today can see those reasons and the fears on the back of them. This is - and I'm sorry to tell the easy jingoists among us - not so black and white. The revulsion of the invasion and resistence of it is, the realities aren't. Any way forward when the again easy ranting dies down will have to take that into account or it will be a rinse and repeat, even if putin isn't in his throne in the Kremlin.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118799532#Comment_118799532

According to @Wibbs expert opinion. People in this thread are being willfully ignorant and listening to too much Twitter news and that Russia are merely acting battlefield stupid and not really battlefield stupid. Holding back large numbers of troops and cutting edge equipment to roll into cities and put them down. And that the might of the Russian machine wins out in the end.

It doesn't really matter that this opinion is contrary to all of the major national intelligence agencies worldwide.

We are consuming to much pro Ukraine twitter.. or something.

But hopefully Ukraine win. Etc etc.