Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802055#Comment_118802055

I'd say it's more likely in the eastern urban areas among the young. I feel for the younger Russians who've had access to more differences of opinion and debate that their elders and they've the most to lose in the future too. In the older age group and rural areas where he's seen and promoted as the guy who saved them from the chaos of the 90's much less so. The rural Russians won't be nearly as impacted by sanctions either. Or their way of life is more resilient to it anyway.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802065#Comment_118802065

Maybe someone ran out of rubles for the leccy meter.

fritzelly

So Russian patron Saint of nuclear...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802055#Comment_118802055

Any polls I've seen show massive support for the war and Putin's talking points among ordinary Russian people.

Yes, the propaganda is incredibly potent, but these are a people who have access to the outside, they aren't North Korea, they have access to the wider world via the internet, so we can't rely on that excuse forever.

Likewise a lot of commentators are saying that Putin isn't the sole problem here, e.g. Russian soldiers are pulling triggers to fire bombs at places they know have Ukrainian civilians. We know from e.g. the Holocaust that the "the just following orders" argument is BS, no soldiers were punished for not carrying out orders to murder civilians.

Yes Putin is the kingpin, yes he does have a vast propaganda apparatus, but he also has a lot of support from ordinary Russians who strongly share his views. Ordinary Russians who should be able to see how a slow autocracy has very suddenly shifted into totalitarianism, who have had many opportunities to see through this.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1504805388176265218

Bayonet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802051#Comment_118802051

You're basically agreeing with me then.

deise08

https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1504777794814894080?s=20&t=4r5X5BsreGEQbGyuFUi8Ew

On board footage from a Russian Ka-52.

Fathom

The Ukraine unexpected strong defense against one of the world’s largest militaries by the Ukraine military and civilian volunteers reminds me of an old book by Robert Ardrey. The Territorial Imperative.

RGARDINR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118800581#Comment_118800581

If you look at 1 min 25 seconds someone didn't. Some poor bastard lands down in a few pieces. He must of gotten blown way up as last missile strike is a while before his poor mangled body hits the ground.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802038#Comment_118802038

Er, the Republicans criticised Biden for not allowing the Polish Mig swap deal to go through. I realise it was trying to make capital out of the situation but I have to say I'm on their side on this one, even if they were just being opportunistic.

The drip, drip of slightly better hardware is ridiculous, they needed it yesterday. Every delay is lives lost. They should have got long range and highly capable SAMs at the start.

Fathom

The infamous Russian 40 mile long convoy speaks to the gross tactical errors committed by their military.

Strazdas

I'm guessing Putin's speech in Moscow was hit by a cyber attack of some description (the Anonymous guys perhaps?). It meant the last part of his speech and his exit from the stadium was not shown live on TV.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802087#Comment_118802087

I think we are definitely singing from the same hymn sheet for sure. The only caveat i have is that Polls from Russia are unreliable (to say the least)

But you are correct. I remain hopeful that a statistically relevant minority may be able to see the truth. But its probably not enough to effect real change at least for now.

I remember reading a book on propaganda years ago. I cannot remember whether it was an academically credible source (or its name tbf), but it described two 'strains' of propaganda. The most obvious would concern itself with doling out 'factual misinformation and specifics' (so in this case, NAZIS run Kyiv, Genocide in Donbass etc) - the other strain was more an overall one, aimed at creating a warped Patriotism (My country right or wrong, Mother Russia, eternal glory, I support the legitimate government of my country, to do so is patriotic and morally correct) -

I would speculate that there may be a larger amount of people who know at least some of the truth regarding this war. But that number would be divided further to find how many would genuinely side against Putin.

UGH, its a sorry state of affairs - made all the more alarming by random 'whataboutists' popping up frequently

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802065#Comment_118802065

I would have much prefered it to have been due to a 13mm (0.50" cal) attack than a cyber attack.

Dyr

I find this obsession with what the Russian people think about the war bizarre. They probably support it, when it starts going badly enough for them that they feel the pain, it will change

sutrapall

Nato is a machine that no longer served purpose. It should have been reorganised many years ago.

They screwed around in Ukraine, a necessary buffer zone, and quelle surprise, the Russians throw a wobbler.

Russia will take Ukraine, rapidly withdraw having put in place some kind of temporary puppetry, and it's back to business as usual. The Ukraine is in an unfortunate position, basically comprising a Berlin Wall. Much like turkey and it joining the eu, never going to happen, but games are played now and then.

mcmoustache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802209#Comment_118802209

What an original and unique take that nobody here has heard before.

briany

@sutrapall

Russia will take Ukraine, rapidly withdraw having put in place some kind of temporary puppetry, and it's back to business as usual.

Literally never happening. I can't say that they won't take Ukraine, or that they wouldn't try to install a puppet government, but the idea that it would be back to business as usual is ludicrous. There would be massive, massive resentment toward Russia in the wake of what they're after doing to Ukraine. Any puppet president will have a target on his or her back, and the moment Russia withdraw to any significant degree, that target would be fired upon until the mark was found. Again and again and again.

sutrapall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802220#Comment_118802220

Well that's reality for you, keeps popping its face up!

Alternatively, the Martian annexation of New Pluto has something something price of yoghurt something something oligarch something Congo bongo and therefore that's my insane look at the current situation.

Dohnjoe

https://twitter.com/larisamlbrown/status/1504842651400552481

Dohnjoe

https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1504802752538415104

sutrapall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802221#Comment_118802221

Precisely, back to business as usual, ad nauseum.

Then nato has a prod, then Russia has a prod, then nato has a gob, then Russia has a gob, then nato has a lob, then Russia has a lob.

Dohnjoe

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1504837765065752601

Dohnjoe

Will be pretty interesting to see what message China puts out about this, will know in 2 hours

https://twitter.com/allison__news/status/1504776162605686785

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802209#Comment_118802209

The events of the past month have rather shown the point of NATO don't you think? Defence spending across the treaty bloc will rise, investment in defence technologies will rise, public appetite and approval of NATO is higher than I can remember in living memory.

If Putin's objection to NATO was a pretext for his activities, he's awakened it from its stupor. Nice work dingbat - and you've probably ended up hastening the end of your regime, with the prospect of him being taken out in inglorious circumstances rising by the day. The chances of him being interred in the walls of the Kremlin as a Russian national hero when he croaks are looking pretty remote.

In the process of submitting a post that seeks to wash Russian hands of what happened over the last four weeks, you've ignored the decades of the treaty bloc atrophying; the US withdrawing tens of thousands of troops and much materiel from Germany; the UK stood-down from the continent and gone back to merry old England; chatter over the last 5 years of winding down the bloc and swapping-in an EU-led alternative etc.

Ukraine wasn't even a NATO applicant, and NATO beurocrats for many years were open about Ukrainian membership being a medium to long-term prospect that was very far off becoming a reality. The appetite was always more on the Ukrainian side than from NATO.

As for your assessment of the outcome of the war, how you landed on that take with the reality on the ground at the present moment is a head-scratcher. Thousands of Russian young men are lying dead frozen on Ukrainian roads with nobody to retrieve them - the rusting Russian war machine is getting chewed up bit-by-bit by a determined defending force.

My only real question is, what's your angle?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802221#Comment_118802221

Hopefully somewhere in the future we can read what really happened in the Kremlin regarding this plan. The gamble they took is extraordinary.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802034#Comment_118802034

This is all perfectly reasonable. I too hope they are able to attack the problem once this is all over.

But its just all a bit irrelevant right now, and yes I have an inbuilt distrust of anyone who brings it up in much detail because it comes across as a tacit acknowledge that there was some truth to Russia's claims of motivation. They exist, its a problem, they should have been dealt with before, hopefully they are dealt with afterwards. But who gives a **** right now - there are bigger problems.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802243#Comment_118802243

I, too, vividly remember NATO invading Belarus and installing a western puppet government to have a "prod" at Russia.

Wait a second...

JoChervil

https://twitter.com/quiraskill/status/1504748031752687616?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1504748031752687616%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.o2.pl%2Finformacje%2Fniszcza-auta-oznakowane-litera-z-to-dzieje-sie-w-sercu-rosji-6748575700392704a

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118802255#Comment_118802255

Chinese media watchers on Twitter (people who do this for a living rather than cranks) have assessed that state-outlets have almost certainly been instructed to walk back the overt cheerleading of Russian support and tow a more neutral line.

The tone has decidedly changed, and in China, that comes from the top.

My take earlier on in the thread on China is the same now: As soon as Putin starts looking like a loser or radioactive to Chinese interests, Beijing will slink off and wash their hands of him. We're beginning to see the start of that process.