Kilkenny GAA Thread

brookville

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350607#Comment_119350607

It's hard be critical of lads after the effort yesterday in that heat against a great team. You have to give our lads great credit and anyone I met yesterday was very proud but our half back line got completely wiped out and we were slow to make any change. We conceded 1-13 from this line. If deegan was marking hegarty why didn't he just sacrifice his game to stop him. I know its great that he got two points and mikey got a point but cody always said the defenders job was to stop the attacker. We didn't do that yesterday and I thought this line didn't know what their job was. Richie was made redundant.The bunch and break has being around years but we definitely struggled badly. Our half back line isn't imposing enough and like Limerick and our great team the half back line is the springboard.Did we not miss a trick putting padraig wing back and deegan midfield?maybe the legs are going but padraig hasn't being himself.

Our midfield was very quite but Limerick didn't dominate here but better than ours.

The difference between quaids puckouts and ours was chalk and cheese. I know they've the players and movement but the delivery is unreal. Ours are missiles.

In summary extremely proud of the effort and most other team would of probably crumbled a few times but just our stubbornness we kept going and going. When Richie got that point I think they got the next 5 points. We're a couple of top players short of getting over the line. We'll lose a few players but hopefully get another year out of Walter and tj.

jonniegoogle

Savage game. KKs resilience to stay in that game was immense. I thought Limerick should have been further ahead at ht but what a response from the lads in the 2nd half.

Missed chances on both sides although KKs were probably worse.

Ref was about 60/40 in Limerick's favor.

Blanchfield has been treated very harshly this year. People saying he needs to bulk up is rubbish. He's a fantastic moder style hurler, good in the air, athletic and uses the ball very well. I definitely would put him ahead of Browne or Kenny.

Surely KK could have dealt with Limerick POs better....Carey and Deegan stay out 10 yrds and Ried hold the middle , therefore covering all the bases.

As another Cody critic , I have been pleasantly surprised with the small tweaks in our "gameplan" but I thought yesterday we reverted to type when the pressure came on....especially our keeper. Quaid gave an exhibition on deliveries.

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355113#Comment_119355113

Agree regarding bulking up. Liam Blanchfield had a great first season as a 19 year old. In his first off season with Kilkenny, he bulked up and lost vital pace and was never the same player afterwards. They don't need to make the same mistake with his brother.

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355150#Comment_119355150

didnt think pace was his problem. I didn't think he was great tackling, too easily pushed off, didn't seem to know how to use his size to his advantage

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355113#Comment_119355113

Compared to kenny it probably was a bit harsh alright, more opportunity for places further up the field where kenny was getting games with how other players were going. I would have liked to have seen him tried a bit more in midfield, not half back line and get some more experience. Wasn't looking for him to be benched. Wouldn't have liked to see him get cleaned out starting half back yesterday and kill his confidence

Second half the long ball down to wally and tj was brutal to watch, no variation, very limited opportunities for the rest of the forwards or midfield, wasn't far off the gameplan vs wexford

Topcat32

Was an interesting year where Kilkenny were awful in some matches yet played by far the best hurling since 2015 in others including yesterday, Huw Lawlor, Mikey Butler and TJ were immense during the year, Adrian Mullen was very good even if for me he has the talent to do a fair bit better, Tommy Walsh is a very good hurler and I hope he gets a lot of confidence from yesterday, Eoin Cody looked excellent at times and is a class player was but is let down by the quality of the ball he gets, we struggle with bringing the ball out of defense and getting runners onto the breaking ball around midfield and the half forward line and that seriously limits the quality of the ball our forwards get. A lot to build on from this year though, the under 20s were excellent as well and its good to see them recognized this evening along with the seniors.

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355374#Comment_119355374

I think it was Brendan Cummins that said on the SG last night that when the KK backs take the short puck out from the goalkeeper they need to have the confidence to break the tackle before laying it off to a man in space and I agree with that completely as it opens up the spaces in front of the play.

Tommy Walsh definitely improved as the year went on but he always looks a bit wooden and a bit unsure of himself, just doesn't look comfortable on the ball. Hopefully this will improve with the confidence he should get from this year.

PeggyShippen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350760#Comment_119350760

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119350760#Comment_119350760

Cummins was talking rubbish with that point he was making about backs 'breaking' a tackle. Limerick do not take on the forward and break the tackle. That's mad stuff with a fair chance of being turned over. What they do is commit the forward and pass the ball before he gets to them or else they side step them. Only eejits are telling fullbacks to break a tackle. Davy Fitz encouraged it for years. All that happened is the forward slowed down the back and stopped the flow out.

JJs Left Hand

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-kilkenny-5820035-Jul2022/?utm_source=shortlink

Good read

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119356073#Comment_119356073

Very good read..

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119356166#Comment_119356166

The possession that Limerick retained from their goalkeeper puckouts was the difference between the sides in my opinion. Even when it was been sent to the half forward line, they knew where the ball was going and were favourites to get the ball. The trajectory of the ball was low not like Eoin Murphy's puckouts which because of their high trajectory is always going to favour the defender facing the ball. I think we have to look at replacing Eoin Murphy with Darren Brennan who is better at placing balls.

The remarkable thing is that we were only 2 points adrift of Limerick. I see that the Irish Examiner rated 12 of the Limerick players at 8 or more whilst only TJ,Huw and Mikey Butler received 8 or more for Kilkenny. Change our puckouts and use of possession and we may have a chance

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119356265#Comment_119356265

Yeah looking at those stats to stay within two points of them was actually an incredible performance.

JJs Left Hand

Whether Murphy or Darren is in the goal it doesn't matter if the tactic is get it to the full forward line and try win the breaking ball. If your keeper is trying to land it on the far 21 then the ball is going to be in the air a long time.

He did mess up a few though admittedly.

Powerhouse1

Fair play to Richie and all the Ballyhale players who formed the guard of honour for their club Chairman today. Sure class well done lads

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119356363#Comment_119356363

And to be fair to Eoin Murphy the movement of the Limerick midfield and half forward line give Quaid so many options on the puck out in comparison to what Murphy has to aim for.

I know there was a couple of times when Mullen was in space and Murphy ignored him and went long anyway but as JJs said above if that's the instruction then his hands are tied really.

Grats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357417#Comment_119357417

I said previously, if Eoin Murphy isn't carrying out instructions he would be replaced. It's time to allow him to get smarter with puckouts. That means getting the manager to commit big time to it and then practice, practice, practice in training from the start of the next training session.

We eventually played smarter hurling EIGHT weeks ago and look where it brought us. A tactical plan is critical these days.

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357467#Comment_119357467

Absolutely, and you can see the Limerick puck out is a well coached and well practiced play as it's such an important aspect of the modern game.

In contrast our puck out seems to be very much off the cuff and there doesn't seem to be any real plan, I could be wrong but that's definitely how it looks a lot of the time.

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119357417#Comment_119357417

that was very disappointing after looking like they were starting the change things around. effectively took most of the team out of the game in the second half on the puckouts, couldn't have made it any easier for limerick targeting two players in the same area continuously. Didn't feel like it but it was the same percentage puckouts won as the clare game (59%). Been a very mixed year, definitely not getting the most out of a lot of the players. As well as puckouts they need to work on linking up the backs with the midfield, they do well at times to work the ball around at the back but more often than not the ball just ends up being launched from inside the 45, rarely any better than if the first player that got it just launched it themselves. Not sure what the midfield was doing for a lot of the game, need to watch it back again. On the short puckouts it doesn't look like theres any plan for where the second pass is to go, under massive pressure to find a free player or try and run it out which has ended up being turned over quite a lot this year. I'm veering back towards wanting a change, cant fault the effort they put in but need to start playing a bit smarter. TJ isn't going to be around forever either, the long high ball doesn't really suit anyone else thats there now

lim4ev

As a limerick man the joy I feel at the moment is unreal this is the one we wanted most and that's only out of respect for the great hurling county that is kilkenny.

My first match in croke Park was the semi final in 81 as a young lad I've seen mostly heartbreak and of course some good too.

The respect I had for kilkenny pre Sunday I thought couldn't be bettered but it was.

A genuine question to the lads that want a change of mgmt is there anyone that could better cody?

From the outside looking in I think it would be crazy to replace him.

briancoolcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358107#Comment_119358107

Congratulations it's a great feeling being champions and especially following that Limerick team. They are outstanding and I can see them winning the 4 in a row and being up there as the greatest team to ever play the game. I never thought I would see another team as good as our four in a row team in my lifetime but barely ten years after along come this bunch from Limerick and are some bunch. Should Cody go can he be replaced? Of course he can, will anyone else get as much out of a group of players, hard to see it but if we full adapt to the modern game and have all the planning and good coaching that Limerick possess then we can make up for the loss that Codys motivation brings. It's not the end of the world if he stays on for another year or two but I would like to see a whole change in management in the next couple of years.

tibruit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358107#Comment_119358107

Good luck to you and enjoy it. You ask a pertinent question about the manager because reading between the lines of post match interviews I get the impression that Cody is considering his future.

Unfortunately Boards and Twitter is a haven for the Johnny Opinionated types that make up about 5% of the population. Back in the day they used to turn up in the pub on a Wednesday night mouthing off on every issue of the day as the rest of the clientele rolled their eyes because of the bu**shite they now had to listen to when really they only came in for a quiet pint. It used to be the case that Johnny was put back in his box when someone would eventually say "Ah Johnny...will you stop talking sh*te". Unfortunately Johnny has now discovered Social Media where he finds other like minds and starts to think that he is part of a greater movement when in reality he is still only one of the 5%.

We have the greatest manager of all time who has come back again this year to within two points of the absolute summit. Yet the rumblings are starting again. The usual suspects that have been complaining here about our underage structures (they had to shut up about that one when our U 20`s won the All Ireland), our general lack of strength and conditioning, informing us about all the disharmony in the dressing room and complaining that Cody is effectively a tactically inept dinosaur that needs to be retired. Yet here we are back in Croke Park on All Ireland day with a team trained to the minute, that performed far better than the sum of its parts suggested it should and almost turned over the second best team we have seen this century.

Sure the link up play between the keeper and the forwards wasn`t what it should be, so lets get rid of Cody and that will sort it all out. If you have a sore finger, sure you can always cut your arm off at the elbow. Technically no more sore finger. Problem solved...happy days.

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358107#Comment_119358107

the obvious candidate is a bit tied up, unless he does a cahill on it. I'm not too sure we'll see the changes we're hoping for. First sign of trouble and its back to long high ball. I would hope a change wouldn't mean we automatically lose the workrate. Not looking for massive changes or a running game, would be happy if there was evidence of a plan on the puckouts and a lot more variety, cant have it so predictable that backs are running to where they know the puckouts going before its even hit. Better movement off the ball, not turn possession into a 50/50 or worse every time. Evidence of preparation for the opposing teams puckouts, getting caught out way too often with free players in midfield

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119356073#Comment_119356073

One of the statistics that stands out is that Limerick had 57 'handpasses' to Kilkenny's 27. Previously analysis has shown over 2/3 of Limerick's 'handpasses' are illegal. Teams like Tipperary, Galway and Kilkenny have an illegal rate of 1/4. You would have to think that if the handpass rule was implemented, Kilkenny (or Galway maybe) would be champions. The high number of Limerick 'handpasses' at 57 obviously shows that it is a large part of their game, it is more accurate, quicker and you can throw the ball further. It leads to less turnovers. Apart from the number of frees that Kilkenny should have been awarded, Kilkenny had a goal chance when a handpass from TJ to Walter Walsh went astray, a thrown ball would have probably have ended up as a Kilkenny goal. Fair play to Limerick they are playing the referee. I find it hard to understand why the handpass rule is not being implemented. Why not let players catch the ball 3 times if you are going to ignore rules? Why not let players run 20 metres with the ball?

The only reason that I can think that referees ignore the rule is that a replay may show that occasionally a replay may show a few millimetres of a gap between the hand and the ball and the referee may be castigated for getting a decision wrong. However, by not penalising throwing of the ball, they are getting 30+ decisions wrong in a game. This is a blight on the game.

As a traditionalist, it sickens me to see to see throwing of the ball being allowed. It is simple to bring in a rule that there must be clear separation between the ball and hand. If teams are being penalised even on marginal calls, they will quickly adapt. At the moment it is a joke where referees are 10 or 20 metres away but still don't call a free. You either have a rule and implement it or else get rid rid of it entirely. I think the latter would be a mistake as it changes the nature of the game. I do not understand why pundits and the media ignore the breaking of the handpass rule. Brian Gavin, ex referee, did an analysis of the All Ireland in the Examiner on Monday and mentioned a couple of incidents where Limerick were awarded frees where Kilkenny were not. However, he made no reference whatsoever to the 30+ incidents of foul play where the ball was thrown.

It sickens me further to say that if the handpass rule is not being implemented, Kilkenny should increase the number of times it throws the ball. It may be the difference between losing an All Ireland by 2 points and winning it. The irony is that Limerick are the best exponents of the stick pass which is a joy to behold

Vinnie222

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358604#Comment_119358604

Have you a link to these stats?

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358107#Comment_119358107

Enjoy the celebrations, absolutely gutted with the result but happy for the long suffering Limerick people.

blackcard

Afraid that I don't know how to link the article from Premierview. It gives the following statistics feom last years All Ireland semi finals and finals.

Lk. v Wd.

Lk 62 throws, 12 handpasses

Wd. 22 throws 12 handpasses

Ck. v Kk (Includes extra time)

Ck. 48 throws, 7 handpasses

Kk. 19 throws, 36 handpasses

Lk. v Ck.

Lk. 46 throws 13 handpasses

Ck. 39 throws, 9 handpasses.

In the 2021 championship ,Cian Lynch threw the ball 28 times and handpassed the ball once.

Not one free was given for a handpass in the 3 matches referred to above

PeggyShippen

It is a blight especially as Limerick would still adapt to actually having to handbags properly. In All Ireland finals it's very hard to enforce the rule fully when it hadn't been enforced previously in the championship. For me a thrown ball should be an Indirect free. I dont think Mike Casey has ever not thrown a ball. Tom Morrissey and Sean finn throw 90% of them. Nicky Quaid and Dan Morrissey are good exponents of a proper handpass. They arent getting pulled on the illegal ones so why should Limerick change. Its a rule enforcement issue.

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359297#Comment_119359297

Exactly. Throwing an illegal handpass is as much a foul as dragging a player down, picking the ball up from the ground, tripping a player etc. Teams like Kilkenny, Tipperary and Galway that are more compliant are at a disadvantage to Cork and Limerick who are blatantly not compiant. Their managers are obviously encouraging throwing of the ball because there is a distinct advantage to it. It is hard to understand why the GAA are not enforcing the rule

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119358910#Comment_119358910

the best referees are supposedly the ones that let it flow and dont blow the whistle. its unfortunately time to join them, dying skill, giving up too much of an advantage

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359478#Comment_119359478

Unfortunately it is. I was at a Junior match over the weekend. I would say approximately 80% of passes were compliant early on. The referee awarded 4 frees for throwing in the first half and I couldn't see any illegal handpass in the second half. The managers obviously spoke to their players at half time. Problem solved. So simple. Yet for some reason, the GAA do not want to solve the issue