Kilkenny GAA Thread

Pigeon Chaser

The most difficult thing to understand is the complete U turn referees made on enforcement of a proper handpass between league/championship.

It was so encouraging to see it being penalized early in the league .. but then slowly got ignored to the point it was farcical on Sunday...

It must be the fear of getting one wrong that has lead to the reluctance to blow. Unless it's inside the defending 21 .. it grants a free shot at a point, such is the distance these guys by Byrnes and Reid can hit it..

Not sure what the answer is. Perhaps as has been mentioned, a clear separation between the 2 actions in the execution of the movement is needed and an acceptance that anything less, or if any doubt exists it is deemed illegal..

I wonder too would there be any merit in introducing a "safety net" for the referee .. If the referee is certain it is a throw = free conceded. If the referee suspects it is a throw but is not certain or has any doubts around the legality of a handpass = clash ball. It's probably a silly suggestion but in the absence of having 2 referees, I can't see how it can be adequately monitored by one man. And with Limerick being so successful flouting the rule, it's only going to become more and more prevalent by all.

tbiggertycome

Congratulations to Limerick their a smashing team (literally- in a good way) and have some amazing hurlers. We were very close and I find it fierce frustrating that we were getting blown for marginal calls and Limerick weren't (not their fault at all). On a day when we needed to get those marginal calls Limerick were the ones being given the leeway.

The one that gets in my craw though is one I haven't seen mentioned anywhere. With 70:35 on the clock Kilkenny had just hit in another scud missile to Diarmuid Byrnes which he failed to catch the first time, Dan Morrissey flicks the ball to Declan Hannon standing about 40 yards from goal almost center of the field. Hannon drops his hurl to catch the ball. There were three points in it at that moment with 4 minutes to go. Hannon immediately handpassed it to Will O'Donoghue who passed it a few yards to Gearoid Hegarty who buddled past Blanchfield and scored a screamer from inside his own 65. This was Limericks last point of the game and opened a 4 point gap which we should have reduced to two with a handy TJ free 40 yards from goal. Our last couple of points would have drawn the game.

I'm sure it looks like begrudgery from a Kilkenny man but I genuinely don't begrudge them the win at all I was just looking for some of those decisions to go our way.

Well done to our lads and management for getting further than anyone thought this year including myself. They died with there boots on but our lack of composure when the pressure came on was the difference. Our lack of practice or ability to execute the puck outs in a way to give our forwards a chance was frustrating again. Our inability to play zonal for their puckouts and drop the midfielders deep to help cut out those slings from Quaid put us on the back foot all day.

How anyone could doubt we have the hurlers I don't know. If you sent out any other team against Limerick on Sunday without those arrows in your quiver. It would have been a thrashing like the last few All Irelands.

I think Limerick will win the 4 in a row next year with Lynch back and they'll thoroughly deserve there place in history as an all time great team.

I find the throwing of the ball by most Munster teams to be hugely frustrating and the game and tactics would change hugely if this was properly enforced. That is not Limerick, Cork, Waterford of Wexfords fault their exploiting a weakness in the refs and the GAA. The GAA should be coming out and defending the refs particularly after some of the segments on the Sunday game with Derek McGrath, Donal Og and or Davy Fitz whinging about refs blowing once or twice in a whole game for a throw (they think none should be blown). If they were such lovers of the game why aren't they defending the game and it's refs for doing the right thing in trying to stamp it out. The ball and size of the bas are another personal gripe but anyway thats enough whinging from me.

Club games back tomorrow evening with the Boro v Vegas in the All County League final 7.30 in Palmerstown. They played earlier in the league in Vegas.

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359643#Comment_119359643

I think TV has a huge impact on this, the referee will get far more criticism for getting it wrong with a hand pass decision than for not blowing at all.

In fact as you said, when the referee completely ignored the throws it didn't get a mention.

brookville

Heard last night that cody is going and it will be announced this evening or tomorrow. Could be all bull but it wouldn't shock me. I heard the same last year

I just hope there's a plan in place if it is true

Who would get it? Lyng probably be favourite.

Herity would be a good coach

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359643#Comment_119359643

same every year, enforce something in league and forget about it when championship starts. would prefer no frees than the one free each nonsense in some of the games to make it look like its being thought about

what have we had in recent years thats pretty much not properly enforced fully any more, hand pass, high tackle, interference with the helmet, frontal charge, black card

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359800#Comment_119359800

be very surprised, do we not get to wait till september/october for usual the ratification. if it is true i would hope there's a clean break and no interference for the next manager coming in

interview with Herity for anyone that hasn't heard it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmPRnCbN3u0

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359800#Comment_119359800

As noted above, I thought he looked his age last Sunday.

cosatron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359800#Comment_119359800

galway man here, i come in peace. A friend of mine was at the match and everyone he talked to had it that Cody was retiring and King Henry was set to return. I hope and pray its not true as i think Henry is doing a good job with Galway.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359802#Comment_119359802

Which makes it less likely that they will attempt to address throwing next year, won't they have a bit of credibility issue if they do considering how they completely discarded the initiative as this year went on?

@Charlie69 mentioned the role of TV in this and it was bizarre to see during the so called clampdown on throwing that certain Sunday Game panelists were at pains to highlight the relatively few calls that referees made in error while attempting to penalize throwing rather than focussing on the throws that were correctly punished.

Marrooned

Earlier in the league this year there was an effort to clamp down on the thrown/hand pass. limerick were losing games and John Kiely was not happy and claimed Limerick were being victimized (result end of clamp down). Just go back to the Dub v KK league game the ref blew the dubs for a few throws ,that ended that and the game improved no end. Why did the refs stop the clampdown. On another note who did the fitness test on Colm Lyons. He was so behind the play it was unbelievable.Reallythere will have to be some kind of forum to sort out these refereeing problems.

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119298224#Comment_119298224

These were my thoughts almost 2 weeks ago. Most were true

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360124#Comment_119360124

dont think limerick were too pushed about the league this year, doubt it had anything to do with them losing. refereeing seems to be dictated by the sunday game alright. Was actually wondering before the game would we see a referee subbed or down with cramp with the heat, he didn't take any chances by running much too

Grats

In a previous post I said that players don't throw the ball for the sake of it. For example there would be little point in Kilkenny using the tactic in a big way unless their overall game plan required them to do so. Limerick have it off to a fine art and use it to move the ball quickly, and especially when under pressure. If we do go on to play smarter hurling next year I'd be all for throwing the ball if it's an advantage. If you can't beat then, join them.

Ironic really when you think of TJ been blowing for over carrying in the previous match when he in fact had played it on his hurl. Yet most refs ignore blatant throwing of the ball.

kilkennyboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359649#Comment_119359649

The one that had people laughing around us was blanchfields first touch he drilled a ball to donnelly in centre forward position. Limerick man ran up behind him 2 hands on back shoves him over it would be a free u12.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119359649#Comment_119359649

If you are going to blame the referee it is only fair to mention the casual throw by Cian Kenny in the first half, and more significantly that when Reid caught a high ball ahead of Kilkenny's second goal he clearly touched the ball on the ground when he came down. Very obvious free out.

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360643#Comment_119360643

dont think anyones blaming the referee for the result. There's clearly plenty of areas of the game that kilkenny need to improve on, puckouts being the main one. Was probably 6-7 points given away in the first half due to self created mistakes. Its more a general issue with the direction the game is going with the lack of enforcement of the rules. I'm sure the Limerick players would be more than capable of handpassing if they had to

brookville

Looks to be true with cody going. Lot of rumours doing the rounds

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360643#Comment_119360643

I actually thought that too re: Reid's grounding, though didn't get a clear view of it on TV replays. Surprised no analysts spotted it.

Grats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361483#Comment_119361483

Is that the only "foul" you want to comment on!

JJs Left Hand

When you come down out of the sky are you not allowed touch the ball on the ground, no? I don't know but it's the kind of thing that's never punished when a lad hits the ground after winning the ball. Especially considering Finn pulled his hurl out of his hand and threw it away when they were on the deck.

I can't say I had much of a problem with Lyons on Sunday. The only one that annoyed me was the free he gave to Casey against Ryan on the edge of the D which was never a free and finished with Byrnes putting it over.

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361534#Comment_119361534

Well, I did think Peter Casey was also fouled, shortly after he came on, spun around by the waist, but nothing given. As a neutral there last Sunday, I didn't think the ref overtly favoured either team, unlike the Galway semi-final certainly.

Grats

First half, line ball to Limerick, under Hogan Stand, short of midfield, Conor Browne had his hurl dragged from him and thrown away by a Limerick player, who swiftly received the lineball and pointed. Linesman and ref ignored it.

Grats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361570#Comment_119361570

Let me guess where you're from! 😀

RamonD3

In fairness to Lyons he did a decent job on the day and wasn't a factor in the result. You could pick over any game tape and call decisions a different way, another story in real time and you would have to feel for a lad in his mid 40s trying to keep up with some of the fittest men in the country, and in that heat, I was beat sitting in the stand watching it!

The rules are always applied more liberally as the year goes on and the stakes and viewers increase. Sure remember that furore years ago in a u21 match when a clare goalie was penalised for leaving the area on a puck out and dial that up and no one would want to go down in history for a game changing decision.

If that's true about BC that was some performance to go out on, the indomitable spirit that was in the dna of his teams on full display.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361577#Comment_119361577

Yes, I remember that too, something pre-planned I'd imagine. As I wrote before, Limerick seem to have all bases covered and why not, when they go unpunished. I wonder will Gillane ever get penalised for deliberately dropping the hurl under high balls as he did again for his first, kicked point on Sunday. Surprised that those that saw the Reid incident didn't mention that one

usernamethatsnotinuse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361786#Comment_119361786

rule 4.5 - To touch the ball on the ground with the hand(s), except when a player falls or is knocked down and the ball in his hand touches the ground.

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360643#Comment_119360643

You obviously don't know the rules of hurling, the ball is allowed to touch the ball as you fall

blackcard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119361577#Comment_119361577

Not sure if that was Gillane who did this on a couple of occasions against Cathal Barrett.

KK36

Be careful with the ref comments, we'll end up sounding like Tipp lads and who wants that??

It isn't a foul to touch the ball off the ground if you are on the ground. Remember Mick Kav in the lead up to Gorta's goal in 2009 final.

RoscommonHero

ah lads, some of you are starting to sound like tipp fans after a defeat. No matter what the result or what the performance was like a certain number of them would always go after the referee. It happens in rugby too. Yes, the referee has a very important influential role, no, he doesn't get every decision right (and that's for both sides), but we had the right winner on the day as the better team won. That's all that matters. Kilkenny were excellent though, played to their maximum and you can't ask anymore.