Kilkenny GAA Thread

The_Tank

We dished out enough early year clippings in our day to know the worm can turn. I travelled, I endured, I learned. I heard an interview with Derek afterwards and he’s an intelligent enough man to keep his council and know that tradition dictates that Kilkenny suck this up and use it.

He also knows that Limerick are well ahead in game intelligence and skill execution and that after the experiments in the league that Kilkenny just can’t outLimerick Limerick. We are better set to deal with other teams, especially the ones with sweepers and unorthodox formations. But against the finest exponents, we are well short. In my opinion it’s a comparative shortage of size, awareness, skill, cuteness, and clarity of thinking. I do believe Kilkennys lack of football understanding puts them at a disadvantage. But quite simply Gillanes goal was a carbon copy of about 75 per cent of Eddie Brennans goals (wait on edge of square and dispatch) and almost , but not quite, as good as RichievHogans goal vs Tipp where he stunned it and found the top corner in a thicket of hurls - in other words it was rather good in execution and something our present forwards, other than Mullen would likely butcher. That’s the key problem - we’re a lot of perspiration, but not much inspiration- except today when we were neither.

Other thoughts (that I’m trying to make constructively)

lawlor on the wing on Hego, Limerick saw it coming a mile off and attacked our full back line all the harder. I’ll give the credit to Kinnerk et al on that. Furthermore they probably have the prediction algorithm in place (hurlgpt?) to work out our next move… we are so predictable . I do think Lawlor would have been better used up the middle to break lines, but I’m sure Limerick had a plan for that too.

Padraig Walsh is not and never was a central player imho. Hes great but attacks the ball 100 per cent and doesn’t play percentages . He also leaves the zone. It made sense to have him as the free defender , it doesn’t to have him cb or fb. I hope we’re done with that.

i had the impression the long ball worked ok (relatively) when murphy drove it over the hb line into the corner after a switch move - I might change my opinion if I can stomach watching it back

speaking of which - that stray puck out was a killer and happens too often

we tried so many short puck outs - I’d be interested to see what Limerick got off them( or could have got off them). Ok so we tried it and tried to stick to it but we’ve learned they cannot be our man ‘go to ‘

mossey tried hard but plays in straight lines- he needs to make more out of being unorthodox - take on his man etc

in general we over complicated the passing thing and didn’t seam to know where we wanted to contest the long ball. The ball often ended up where we could have hit it first time , with no difference in the amount of attackers or defenders ie. No overloads or even just a hope for a lucky break for an on running attacker

we also went into traffic a lot when a wider pass to a runner out of defence would have had us on the move

that puck out where we play to fb then to a static midfielder facing his own goal is pure car crash

a corner back waltzing up the field to score a goal untracked - Jesus Christ, never mind the fact Davy was doing this 5 years ago (nearly bet Tipp with it) every feckin junior B football team does it !

eoin Cody needs to be coached to take the ball in his hand, and possibly to compose himself a bit when taking possession

the whole thing was so bloodless… we backed off and let them play and they were happy to do so. Most unkilkennylike.. It was an experiment, it didn’t work. Let’s move on.

We got that lesson in April and we’re better for it. We can’t fix all the problems or come up with a new TJ or a Richie power.. But we can pick the bones from it. And we can pick the bones from what happens in Munster. It’s a long road that doesn’t have a turn and we dished out some fine trimmings in our heyday only to have some tight encounters later in the year. We now need to think about Galway most likely.

btw speaking of Davy, I will be fascinated to see what he unleashes in two weeks after watching this. I’m thinking maybe 4 sweepers..

Marrooned

Cold blooded murder yesterday.they went into a six point lead at half time came out and held us t arms length and then picked us off at there ease.the only thing is they could get so arrogant and flop on a given day but this happened them in 2019 and in the minor in 2014 so this is unlikely to happen again.

me89

What really stood out yesterday was the first touch, every Limerick pass was clean and straight into the hand. We were the complete opposite, it was bouncing/ bobbling off the hurl up into the air, that split second to control the ball and then they swarm you and it's a turnover.

Mullen looked very good and was the only forward who looked like he could cope physically with Limerick.

brookville

https://twitter.com/NoPlanBGAA/status/1645334878165106689?t=afKThrEYlnn6u9tU7nHR0w&s=19

didn't see any sunday game nut how easy it was to come up the field and get a goal. I thought Murphy should of stopped it look how easy they got up.

No matter what anyone says there's a lot of head scratching to be done before we meet galway in a few weeks time.

usualstripes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460817#Comment_120460817

Agree totally. Comes down to intensity in training and how much we control the ball under pressure. Was actually surprised to see mullen substituted as I thought he was going better than most.

Probably a good lesson to have. Bring home how much we need to dig in over the next few months

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460445#Comment_120460445

Excellent post.... Agree with all of this, especially the puckout to the full back that then goes to a midfielder facing his own goal and under pressure, that had me pulling my hair out.

On a positive note I do think we will learn from this and improve, can't get any worse I suppose.

brookville

Mullen came off because he missed months of hurling. He was our best player by a long shot.The fowards were poor and we definitely didn't try feed them enough with ball.

Even the clip above shows blanchfield hitting a ball 2v1in but although very young Billy drennan will not want to see this clip.He should be tracking the runner. This isn't a big secret. Limerick had their homework done and looked like we hadn't a clue. Heagarty,lynch and casey didnt score but their half back line murdered us.The puckouts are very poor aswell but I was up high yesterday and the movement from our lads is poor.

Village87

Take away Adrian Mullen, our basic skill and striking is dreadful. Far to slow around midfield,not just athletically but touch strike etc. Deegan and Fogarty are not the best hurlers in the world and constantly turned over and just not good enough the last 5/6 years , Cian Kenny is to light and Billy Ryan's general hurling is at a poor level. We were lucky not to get a beaten by 25 points yesterday.

kk.man

The all Ireland is not a done deal. Remember how hard it was for us trying to get 5. Dublin got 6 but their first all Ireland was very different team than their last. Limerick haven't changed much over the last few years. They were superb yesterday but that can work against them too (peaking early) and having to sustain it.

I still think we will be better for the experience. Good way going into the Galway game which may decide who's number 2.

tibruit

Last years All Ireland final....Limerick 1-31 KK 2-26. Last years semi final.... Limerick 0-27 Galway 1-21. That`s round about where Limerick are really. Psychologically, yesterdays result is not good for them before they embark on their Munster campaign although no doubt they will be addressing that issue because there`s nothing worse than a false sense of perspective. Don`t be surprised if they struggle. Just saying. It`s only the 10th of April folks.

As for us...there`s no doubt that Carey`s running and physicality is a loss for us and the absence of Browne and Leahy makes the extended panel look a bit forlorn and who knows what TJ will be still able to do for us come championship time because he struggled until the semi last year. Maybe one or two of the youngsters will step up and make a name for themselves. Anyway, one of the fundamentals that propelled us to the final last year was our full back line. I don`t think we should meddle with it, Lawlor in particular and don`t forget that he didn`t play against Wexford.

Overall though it looks like we are back a notch this year. I suppose time will tell.

jimmythesulk

Lucky that we are not in munster. I doubt we would get out of munster. Wexford got hammered by tipp this weekend also. Dublin are so poor, have one decent forward. Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Carlow app not up to standard. Only other decent team is Galway. We can peak come the latter stages of the championship but too many passengers on this team, Fogarty, Deegan, Ryan, Keoghan and when it matters they never perform.

jimmythesulk

Also disappointing to see the players giving up the fight from about 50 minutes on. Never seen that under Cody. That and the disgracefully low crowd that travelled from Kilkenny to the match.

jamesbond2022

A lot doom and gloom around here as usual I think a bit of perspective is needed

We started well and gave limerick plenty of it the first 20-25mins and did a lot of good things limerick adapted after that a blew us away

But apart from kk in last years all Ireland and Clare for 1 game last year no one has stayed with limerick for 70mins plus or at least stayed in the game against them anyway

Tipp under sheedy and a few weeks ago put in great shifts for 35 mins against them and Waterford at times but were then blown away also no one has really been able to topple them it’s not just Kilkenny

Limerick are tactically technically and physically better than everyone right now hard to to swallow but it’s just a fact

As regards players being passed it or not skillful or quick enough the players on the panel are what we have right now so they and the new management should be backed

Lads were on here for years giving out about Cody looking for change wanting a new man new players etc

Thats what we got and there still moaning about how things are wrong

Mad about baa baas

I think one of our biggest failures was trying to copy limericks style..when we beat cork in 06 it wasn't by copying their running game and doing it better.

When tipp beat us in 10 it wasn't by copying our style..they beat us with movement and their own style.

That being said limerick are a better team than us currently on pretty much every facet of the game....be it physical strength/ skill / coaching..

I would still fancy our chance against most other teams on any given day

We will improve as the year goes on.

The_Tank

I find it strange that this is being touted in some media quarters as something new. Liam Ryan scored a point from full back against Tipp in the 2019 all ireland. I don’t recall it being so effective against kilkenny (once we copped it) probably because no forward would want to face Cody after failing to track his man.

And Limerick have been doing it last few games with the same player. This was just poor from Kilkenny.

edit: and the same tactic is open to us with padraig as the same man - but can we work the ball up and make the space for him?

Marrooned

Poor crowd there yesterday alright same few faces who struggle to get good tickets when it counts later on. This issue about the venue sickens me and is always used as an excuse not to go when in reality they had no intention of going no matter where it was on.

Marrooned

Just to add to my previous comments.one man said to me onetime that Dublin was too far away so I asked him did it move further up the road in the past year seeing he was able to make the long journey for the previous years all Ireland.

Marrooned

I just want to do a small survey on commentators on this site who went yesterday and can honestLy be entitled to comment on team and management....

Mad about baa baas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461952#Comment_120461952

So you think only people who attend the game can comment on it? There are people on here who live abroad ..I personally work most weekends so when I am off I often have.jobs at.home.and don't have the time or energy to go to the match..I also have young children that have sports most nights

..do you not think people who saw it on tv are also capable of forming an opinion

Butterbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461952#Comment_120461952

I wasn't there, and I won't bore anyone with the reason why, but it wasn't out of choice.

Entitled...get off the high horse.

I know a lad who lives in Cork and went to the final but wasn't at any of the other league games. The fcuking cheek of him!

Marrooned

I was only getting at people who couldn’t be bothered going but are well able to slate the management and team.another thing I’m self employed and still go to every match.i either take the hit or make up for it after so get on your own high horse and gallop off into the sunset.

Topcat32

The Kilkenny support has been poor for 10 years plus now, I didn't go to the match yesterday so I'm part of the problem but imagine if Wexford or Waterford were at that game yesterday and their team went 3 points up early on versus the Kilkenny reaction, we get outnumbered at every single game either senior or underage, we are not a big county population wise but we are not a really small one either, you look at some lads who come on here only when Kilkenny lose and get a bit of a thrill out of being proven right about the deficiencies of the team and you can see why there has been a toxic undercurrent to everything over the last couple of years

Billy Ocean

Think the reaction has been over the top bit like some of reaction was over the top in the other regard after ye beat Cork 2 weeks ago e.g after that game Mullane on the throw in podcast said ye were undoubtedly the 2nd best team in the country. Reality is at the moment Limerick can do this to any team, just look how they dismantled Tipp in the 2nd half of the semi final. Limerick this year remind me of yourselves in 2008, think a few young players have supplemented the golden crop for their 2015&17 u21 teams and this is the strongest they've been in Kiely's tenure. Think the reality is at the moment Limerick are a good bit ahead of the rest and the next 6-7 teams have very little between them just who performs on the day.

kksaints

I actually don't think the Kilkenny support is that bad for home league matches and for our club championships it's really good. But ask us to travel at all and it's poor. Although I wasn't surprised it was particularly poor yesterday, Cork at 2pm on Easter Sunday is an early start and a long journey.

jonniegoogle

Would people here think the league final team is close to our cship 15??

To me the elephant in the room is our puckouts. Someone here saying go long to TJ and Wally??? Wexford, Waterford, Limerick, Galway and even Cork would just double up on the 2 lads and clean up on breaks. I've been looking for us to work it short or at least have it as an option but we seem to be struggling with it big time. I genuinely don't think we've been working on it long enough or hard enough for it to work well when needed. Don't forget we're a long way behind any other inter county team in terms of coaching and using the ball coming out of defence. There's teams in the Joe Mc who can do it better. I think we'll have to stick with it and try get the balance right between long and short and probably more importantly the management will have to work hard over the coming months to get everyone on the same page and hopefully get the right personnel in place as well

brookville

I heard niall Moran talking about his nephew coming through the academy. Being told what to eat before bed and wearing their gear etc

I heard Ciaran muldowney on community radio saying the complete opposite.When people are willing to bring new ideas etc to the table they're more or less not wanted.

We need to be careful where we're going with this. It's nearly 10 year since we won a minor and 8 since a senior. One time we set the trend now we're running around trying to follow trends. I still reckon a huge shake up is needed at county board level.

briancoolcat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120463706#Comment_120463706

I think you are right. There is a lot of head scratching going on in all hurling counties in regards to Limerick and their dominance. They set up their academy with the help of a good sponsor and brought in the best in coaching and tactics. Good for them.

Our county board and others are probably thinking this great Limerick team will pass and we will get back to winning ways. They will in their eye they will keep bringing lads through their academy and have set the standard. Hurling has moved on for good and though I don't like the way it's gone it's a reality.

I don't know much about our county board setup so can't comment on personalities but it's going to take big resources and big courage to take our county teams to the top. Having good young talent just doesn't cut it anymore, its a ruthless business now professional you could say, and all counties with aspirations of winning will have to embrace it and invest? Will we? Do we have the resources? Time will tell.

upnorth

If it was about winning minor All Irelands Limerick wouldn’t be where they are. Limerick last won a minor All Ireland in 1984…. That’s 39 years ago. They don’t expect to win them either. Their set up is geared from the time they are 14 to finding and developing the one or two from each minor team that are going to come through. Last Sunday that was clearly evident in the conditioning, readiness for senior hurling and skill levels of C O Neill 21, C Coughlan 21 and S O Brien 19.

Pigeon Chaser

I wonder could anybody more tactically astute than me clarify why we don't just push up on the puckout and not give Limerick easy possession.. They are very resourceful once they get it so force them to go long and contest for it further out the field?

hogans heroes

I posted about going long v limerick, it has worked when we play them with the right personnel. Mickey butler and tommy walsh are not players toi go short to IMO, and like others the ball to the man facing our goal is nuts.Byrne's point in last years final was worth more than a point .what we score by going short is less than what ee conceed IMO.In contrast you cant let limerick go short , yet we did time after time.Also on a seperate note padraig should be at 5 his best position where he most likely wwill score a couple of pts per game.happy with the back 3 of mikey huw and tommy.