Kilkenny GAA Thread

Nedflanders02

A lot of talk in here about lads who have been on the panel a while and maybe moving them along and in fairness there probably is a bit of an overhaul needed, like Comerman said I too wouldn't be writing off Conor Delaney too quick I do think he has something to offer but you couldn't blame him if he did step away after not getting lot of action this year. We've been looking at bringing in some of the younger players off the U20's the last couple of years but is there anyone in the 23-28 age group who would be worth a look at?

Dannymole22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899425#Comment_120899425

Maybe give your own post another read yourself. You've more than suggested possible doping, you've basically said it's not naturally possible for a team to be as fit as they are.

High bike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899479#Comment_120899479

Or maybe go back to counting how many ball we're thrown by Limerick on Sunday sure we all know KK wouldn't engage in such a thing.Look pal get over yourself and accept that ye were just beaten by a far superior team like the vast majority of your county men have done in fairness to them.

Marrooned

I wouldn’t have thought so.

Nickindublin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899446#Comment_120899446

Well Derek found Tom Phelan this year. So there are deffo players there that make an impact on the team. i wouldnt be clued up on the club scene so i would leave names to others.

Marrooned

You targeted one thing and yet ye didn’t address the other topics. You can state categorically that there is no misappropriation that’s fine I will take your word for it.

kentu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899446#Comment_120899446

Martin O'Connell of Clara looked decent at fitzgibbon earlier this year, His Clubmate Paul Cody was on panel earlier in year, featured in a few National League games, and if he had a good club campaign would possibly get a recall.

Of course we can't forget Richie Leahy and Conor Browne in Australia, who knows maybe they do or don't want to come back and play with KK Next year.

Like someone else mentioned already would like to see James Bergin still on panel, was very effective around 2 years ago coming on as a sub but perhaps maybe his time has come and gone.

Don't think btw like Comerman said that Conor Delaney was injured a lot of last year. He played against Dublin and Wexford in Round Robin games but when other 3 are available he always has to make way for a place on the bench it seems. I can definitely see why he stayed around this year with different management and will probably be in a conundrum over next few months as it's very hard being a sub all the time and constantly overlooked instead of others when he is there the whole time, all I can think is he wouldn't be there himself unless he thought he was good enough.

Apart from those mentioned above there is nothing obvious to my mind but the next few months of club action which I'm really looking forward to will tell us who could be good enough for a crack at intercounty.

Marrooned

From the U20s last year all the best have been looked at and are on the panel or extended panel.we probably have to look at the 23-25 age group as well I think nearly everyone has been looked at but maybe some will have improved in the year. When Lyng tried Killian Doyle against Tipp in NHL he was ate after it but it was probably too high an intensity game for him like he had hurled with St. Kieran’s in the colleges final a week or two beforehand. So it was probably a bit too soon, I hope it didn’t knock his confidence.

Marrooned

Commitment is huge for inter county hurling and the younger players mightn’t want to go into that set up yet.

Butterbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899618#Comment_120899618

Tom Phelan played last year under Cody too.

Certainly played in the league and some round robin games in 2022.

Nedflanders02

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899742#Comment_120899742

Yeah I was surprised Paul Cody didn't get more game time as he had a good Walsh Cup and has good potential. To be honest haven't seen much of Martin O'Connell. Another Clara man I've been impressed with is Shane Staunton think he could be worth a look. Tom Kenny would be in the 23-28 age range but turned down a call up this year so mightn't be interested. I think we are fairly well set in the backs it's the forwards/midfield is our biggest problem. A lot of the younger players and options we have are either too small or lack pace and that's what kills us against Limerick. That's why I mentioned Cathal Beinre as someone to look out for earlier as he is big and strong and mobile and has lots of hurling. Other fellas, off the top of my head, in the 23-28 age group that might be worth a look might be Tomas Dunne (Tullaroan), Stephen Donnelly (Thomastown), Andy Gaffney (Dicksboro), Eoin Wall, Luke Hogan (Both O'Loughlins), Padraig Dempsey (Mullinavat) and Martin O'Neil (Mooncoin), probably more and better options but these were decent at cub level or underage for KK.

Charlie69

Does anyone know why James Bergin is not on the panel? was he dropped or did he walk away? I saw a good bit of him when his club had a great run a couple of years ago and won the All-Ireland.

He looked a great bit of stuff …seemed to be a big game player , strong and deadly accurate from frees . Always contributed a good few scores from play too.

I seem to remember him doing well when he got a few runs in the league too was surprised when I heard he was gone off the panel.

It’s not as if we’re blessed with an abundance of scoring forwards or anything.

Would also love to see Shane Walsh get a chance in next year’s league and it would be great to get Richie Leahy back in the panel …. I know he was plagued with injuries but he has oodles of talent and operates in an area of the field where we’re short of options.

usualstripes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899618#Comment_120899618

Tom Phelan came to prominence a few years ago when he had a super run helping Conahy win the junior all ireland and he was introduced last year.

ChippingSodbury

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120899627#Comment_120899627

Do you have any shred of evidence that Limerick are taking performance enhancing drugs? Hearsay/ gossip is not evidence and doesn't make "no smoke without fire". God know, someone might use your extra long post above as evidence/ rumour of wrong doing. Conspiracy theories start by casting doubt on real evidence or current understanding: they don't normally prove/ disprove anything just try and cast doubt. Most normal people see thought it. I'd suggest a book from last year by an Irish Journalist Aoife Gallagher called Web of Lies: it's a good read and does a lot of explaining re conspiracy theories.

I'd like to see the running stats from both teams to do a comparison. From watching the game, it seemed to be that KK covered way more ground and worked harder than LK in the 1st half and hence were wrecked come 60mins. If that's what actually happened then there's no weight in the argument that KK weren't as fit as LK (and I'd suggest they're every bit as fit).

On throwing the ball, I don't see that it makes that big a difference. If the referees are allowing it, both teams would/ could be at it. I think the biggest difference is that LK get players near the ruck/ tackle and take advantage of moving the ball quickly. Whether it's thrown or not isn't going to make a whole pile of difference but getting the ball out quickly to a moving player is what does make the difference and LK are really good at that. It's like a possible throw is being allowed as compensation for some pulling/ dragging in the same way as apparently you can take 6 or 7 steps in the same situation. My biggest gripe on Sun was with the Ref: I think he let miles too much physical stuff go. He could have blown for 50 or more frees which people also give out about "not letting the game flow". The Ref sets the tone of what is/ what is not acceptable in his eyes in the first 5 mins of the game. He let everything go early on. The first play of the game had Lawlor on Gillane like an octopus. When loads of pulling/ dragging happens, the skills advantage of a player are lost. That's not a sleight on Lawlor: every player tries to find the line of acceptability from the Ref.

I think Kks biggest issue on Sun was 2nd half puckouts: he's got to be smarter. He's a fantastic shot stopper but that only about 25% of the importance in the job. (I could have saved the same amount has him myself on Sunday i.e. none!!)

A Limerick fan...

Marrooned

So we get rid of the hurl altogether you have just accepted throwing the ball is alright what’s the next rule ye would want to change I said earlier the clash of the ash is gone and the overhead pull is gone deemed to be dangerous pulling on the ground also nearly unacceptable. So where does that leave the game running up in lines throwing the ball to one another, a smaller version of rugby your first love down in Limerick.

Grats

No doubt Croke Park will convene a meeting to discuss the issue of the throw ball (previously, a hand pass). It's called cop out.

There's no need for any such meeting as the matter has moved on while Croke Park ignored it.

Every team should adopt the "new" hand pass from the start of next year. It will be blown in the league but meanwhile teams will have perfected it by championship time when refs ignore it.

PeggyShippen

Rugby is probably the first love of many in Limerick city. Thats neither here nor there really. What's the big one is the physical prowess of this Limerick team, same as the team of the 30s and same as the rugby teams. Physical power is always number 1 for Limerick sports teams. Just so happens they can play ball aswell. Kilkenny need to get back to their style of knackiness and speed. They arent going to match Limerick in the muscle power. That Phealan guy was very good in the first half . When I heard he was 27 I was shocked. He looks like he never saw a gym in his life..!! He wouldn't get within an asses roar of kielys team... he was spent after 35mins.. goosed.

Freneys Treasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120900226#Comment_120900226

"LK get players near the ruck/ tackle and take advantage of moving the ball quickly. Whether it's thrown or not isn't going to make a whole pile of difference but getting the ball out quickly to a moving player is what does make the difference and LK are really good at that"

So Limerick are good at moving the ball quickly, but the mechanism that they primarliy use to do so, the throw, which is inherently faster and less risky than the legal handpass, somehow brings them no advantage in doing so?

The throw is now rampant at intercounty level, becoming more so at club level and it's not because the throw makes little difference

Realt Dearg Sec

Playing hurling in the US now and noticed that a lot of the young lads coming over on J1s and the like are throwing the ball constantly in training drills. Manager had to stop a drill at one stage because the thing was becoming a farce. These are lads of 19, 20, 21. Far as they're concerned it's just part of their game. Refs over here still blow for it every time though so they end up passing it properly very quickly. The solution is not exactly difficult. The problem is that when they start clamping down on it you have Anthony Daly on at half time about how it's destroying the flow of the game (like, who gives a shite if some league match in February is a bit stop start if it has a long term benefit?), then you have Donal Og watching an ultra slow motion replay of one decision the ref got marginally wrong and going on about how it's all just because these guys are so skillful that it is invisible. Then the next week the refs are all letting it go again.

Limerick get an awful amount of grief over this but I don't think they do it any more than other counties, except that they use the handpass more often as part of their game. KK do seem to do it less, but that's not exactly to their credit, the whole idea of top level sport is to play at the edge of what the refs will allow, that's what our great team of a few years back did too. If you want a better game, there's no point looking to the players to provide it, their job is winning, not entertaining people. No, to make a better spectacle, you adjust the rules to create the spectacle you want to see. If you then rail against the adjustments, you can't complain when the spectacle is the same **** again.

ChippingSodbury

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120900919#Comment_120900919

So, are you saying that every LK handpass was a throw??? As I see it, the issue is that players get leeway to make a dodgy handpass when they're already being fouled. Go back and look Sunday's game and count the ratio of throws to handpasses (without your "it's a throw" glasses on) and how many were passed while being fouled. What LK do to other teams with their use of accurate shorter passes (stick and hand passes) to hand and accurate long passes is where I see the difference between them and other teams. Virtually no ball is wasted.

Think back to where KK were 2 years ago. Everyone was on here giving out about lumping the ball out of defence and every puck out going long, regardless of who was at the receiving end of the "passes". I crossed paths a few times with Martin Fogarty when he was National Hurling Co-ordinator and, although he exuded passion for the game, his thinking was still to use a longer hurley and hit it as far as possible, let the guy at the other end worry about winning it. The game has moved on from there and it really comes down to moving the ball quickly and minding it: each pass should be to the advantage of the intended recipient. Whether the ball is thrown or handpassed is possibly not your gripe, it's more likely the way they move the ball cleverly. Would I like to see all throws eliminated? Yes, but one referee is not going to be able to police it, especially with the speed of inter county games. On the opposite side of this, I'd also like to see the tackling sorted: what was let slide on Sunday was over the line in my opinion.

I think the LK hurlers are a supremely talented, skilful and dedicated bunch that are being orchestrated by probably the best tactician the game has ever seen in Kinnerk (he won with Clare in 2013 with good but certainly not great hurlers). I'd guess they could play with lots of other styles but why change when it's working. And long may it continue: I often wondered whether or not KK would get sick of winning in their prime but I think I know the answer now!

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901291#Comment_120901291

Excellent post…. Spot on, the solution really is that simple but there has to be buy in from everyone concerned .

Charlie69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901405#Comment_120901405

Yeah I agree with most of that actually…. and as Realt Dearg Sec said the Limerick players only concern is to win the game , it’s not their job to ensure the rules are implemented properly.

Grats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901490#Comment_120901490

Yes, I do think most posters are directing their criticism at Croke Park, or their match officials, for not implementing the rules consistently. As I said previously, all counties should for example adopt the "new" handpass from the start of next year. Refs will blow for the occasional few but continue perfecting it as you can be certain that refs will totally ease off come the championship.

There's no doubt that throwing the ball, when perfected as part of an overall game plan, is a huge advantage. If counties don't adopt it, don't moan about it, as you'll be left behind playing catch up forever.

Frankie Machine

Assuming that Limerick are the bench-mark and that we have 'best practice' lessons to learn - one very interesting person in the Limerick set-up is Caroline Currid.

Serious, serious operator and a cv to match.

Marrooned

That’s what I was trying to say all along the rules have to be adhered to or else it is not the same game. Even the size of the hurls have changed I just said if teams aren’t going to be pulled on the rules then they are going to keep breaking them it’s the same with the issue of enhancers, it’s in every other sport and some people push the rules to the limit and sometimes beyond don’t be so naive that it’s not or couldn’t happen in Irish sport. As I said earlier it’s a discussion forum to add to not to get on your high horse or get offended about. Remember the Clare team of the nineties Colin Lynch was widely suspected of taken something after the throw in episode against Waterford, Kilkenny were also suspected by our Tipperary brethren. As I said earlier I would hate to think it would happen because the consequences would be detrimental to the entire game.

2forjoy

Wonder did the Saturday wedding have any impact on the team or did any of the first 20 attend ?

Marrooned

I wouldn’t think the wedding was a distraction. In fact it would have taken their minds off it. Bad time of the year for a hurlers wedding and Cody would certainly not allowed it but I didn’t think it mattered.

Marrooned

Ruck/ tackle mentioned a few times here where did this term come I never heard it in hurling conversations before , another rugby term brought in by mixed code followers who latch on to the latest trend,

Eoinbmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901731#Comment_120901731

Your at it again this morning have you a shred of evidence to support your claims of enhancers whatever that even means?

"The talk" what talk? Pub talk?

Why would supporters not be offended from such claims being thrown about unsubstantiated?

It's just a dirt throwing exercise trying to take away from a great hurling team and their fantastic achievements !

To even rry to casually compare the handpass issue to drugs cheating In sport is ridiculous and one is a far more serious allegation !

jimmythesulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901731#Comment_120901731

My god. What horse ****.