Kilkenny GAA Thread

usualstripes

The 1st thing we all have to realise is that at underage level we are not playing the strongest players in a hurling sense. This is certainy not a dig at any players themselves but for sure we didn't have our strongest team out tonight and we don't have our strongest team out tomorrow night either.

For the 1st half tonight it was men against boys. It was similar to the senior set up. We can't give the ball into space for an oncoming forward but we get caught out in this exact way.

Fair play to the chaps. They never gave up and in the last 10 mins could have got something out of the game but overall it was very disappointing. Hopefully the minors will have a better year.

dzer2

Lads these teams are selected at under 13 and rarely added to. I have young lads that have played along side these lads back to u13. I have been looking at these teams year after year and Christ they are poor. This team is along way from the best we could put out. I have watched my own club players sent in and they wouldn't be the best hurler we would have but their dad is over the team. This is the same team as 2018 and that minor team had a great start. But lacked the workrate and drive to sustain the start. Lads here are being over praising some off this team but after looking at them for close on a decade I worry for Kilkenny hurling if they are the future. In the second half even though some of ye are looking for a sinbin I thought the penalty was soft and then it was missed. Other than that we got 5 very soft frees and Galway gutted the team and took the foot off the pedal as young lads do. And we were still well beat. Next yrs crew won't be much better unless there are major changes in the selection method.

Fred Daly

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639408#Comment_117639408

Fred Daly

Has anybody in the Co Board the brains to put a plan in place like they did in the late ninties it is shocking to see team after team disapearing year in year out, is it control by the clubs or what.

Rosita

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639159#Comment_117639159

I have never bought into the Kilkenny population argument. Let Kilkenny field a competitive football team like the other counties do, and give over swathes of the county to that and then maybe population might matter. The county certainly has more players to choose from than Galway despite what the census will tell you about population.

But I do think you are onto something about shifting ground in hurling. I think the introduction of science to the game as well as the pooling of knowledge in third level colleges, access to resources, will leave an impact on hurling. It might, for example, leave Limerick more or less at this sort of level permanently.

As for Kilkenny underage, wasn't the arrival of Galway into the province always going to be hugely detrimental to success rates? Expectations might need to be adjusted.

therealdonster

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639604#Comment_117639604

I'm taking that was a rhetorical question. When you look at the power players at work there and who is coming down the line it does not exactly inspire ones confidence that change and innovation is on the way. Just showing up and presenting trophies seems to be the no.1 priority of said individuals.

Firstly it is important to recognise the work that goes in at club level which is the bedrock of player production and indeed the GAA itself. Nobody could dispute that we produce more than our fair share of talented youngsters which is evident from our success at U17 and schools level - which most other counties would happily swap with us for.

However it is blatantly clear that there is a problem developing these players beyond that point. Using last nights hot mess as an example that team looked badly coached (no clear style of play) ,lagging in S&C (couldn't win a ruck) and lacking scoring forwards.

I managed to watch a few of the U20 games this week with the exception of Dublin Offaly and I would have ranked us second to last of all the teams - only Clare were worse than our lot. You can also throw Waterford into that who lost to Tipp last week. We would not have beaten Tipperary (who lost heavily in the end to Cork) which was a team we accounted for in some style at minor. I looked back and more or less the same players lined out for us and them.

So the question is what has or is happening? The big why. As with all complex problems the answers and solutions are also complex.

It has already been touched on here but undoubtedly the standard of coaching has improved massively.

The fact that hurling has become a much more structured game makes good coaching much more important. This coaching has evened out standards with very few standout players. Physical preparation has also reached professional levels and has also contributed to an evening out of standards. In fairness this has all made the inter county game more competitive than ever with any of the top 7 or 8 teams capable of beating each other. I think kilkenny have fallen.behind in.this area.

All of these other predominantly hurling counties have much bigger populations than us and in most cases have big cities with access to universities and the facilities and other advantages these entail.

Taking Cork as an example who seem to be leading the way at U20 level at present. When you look at the UCC and CIT Fitzgibbon Cup teams it's almost all Cork players on those teams. This gives them access to professional setups with top class facilities and coaches.

If you have the talent and desire you will progress in such a setup - I think the proof will be in the pudding with them in a few years. Contrast that with our 4 or 5 players that have made top level colleges teams in the last few years. In fairness when you look at the ones that have played like Bergin, Mullens and Donnelly they have been of the highest quality which maybe proves the point.

Rosita

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640163#Comment_117640163

I would agree with most of this. Just a couple of quibbles. Kilkenny school teams are essentially packed teams. Very few schools have access to players 30 miles away like St Kieran's do so no much can read into that success. It'd be more surprising if they weren't successful. But the discrepancy between schools' success and county minor has long been established.

It's an aside but the top 7/8 teams all capable of beating each other? Really? Wexford haven't won a championship game since the 2019 Leinster final. Limerick are going for a third All Ireland title in four years. It's competitive in the sense that all teams are well prepared, whereas I am sure back in the day there were county teams badly organised who didn't really have a chance. But there's no sense that 7/8 teams have an equal chance of winning the All Ireland title. That might not be what you meant of course - I should acknowledge that, but assuming a county is in the business of seriously attempting to win an All Ireland title that's how competitiveness should be judged. The idea that a team can be successful while still vulnerable against 7/8 team isn't sustainable.

robwen

robwen

https://twitter.com/KilkennyCLG/status/1417879971159109632?s=19

blackcard

Extremely frustrating watching Kilkenny minors. 5 points up at halftime but should be up by a dozen points. On at least 6 occasions they had handy points for the taking but tried to work goals and ended up with nothing. They are also giving away needless frees to keep Offaly ticking over. Hopefully the management team will have a few words at halftime

brookville

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117643666#Comment_117643666

Seem very one dimensional aswell granted dunne us a big frame with a good paw but need to switch things around.Some of our lads are big chaps

blackcard

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117643666#Comment_117643666

12 seconds into the second half before they gave away a free

JJs Left Hand

Offaly corner forward 15 is a super little player on this showing

Disappointed that the game plan appears to be launch the ball to Ted Dunne everytime.

Making their keeper look a hero with some of the efforts on goal

JJs Left Hand

Probably not the performance they were hoping for but clearly the better team and considering so many were involved with the 2020 squad I think it's only the second time they've played together after a challenge match against Waterford last week.

Still, the delivery into the forwards was fairly......... basic is possible the best word.

Hopefully that game brings them on. Not easy in that heat at that age.

me89

Great scoring from Harry Shine, must have 2-13 or so.

JJs Left Hand

Think they said 2-15

blackcard

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117643732#Comment_117643732

Must have hit a dozen high long balls into Ted Dunne. It felt like the tactics were

1 Hit high ball into Ted Dunne

2 If you have a handy point for the taking, don't take it

3 If an Offaly player has his back to goal and is struggling to control the ball, foul him

4 When taking a shot at goal, make sure it is a weak effort and straight at the goalkeeper

5 If tactics 1 to 4 are not working, repeat them anyway

Afraid that we won't be going very far

brookville

No doubt shine looks to be a very exciting youngster.Ive heard a nice bit of talk about him.We were trying to force too many goals that weren't on and the scoreline maybe wasn't fair on a brave Offaly performance.Their free taker was excellent.They have done good work at underage let's hope they continue.

I liked the look of killian doyle at midfield he was a good link man.Id be concerned about the lack of pace at corner back but this looks a very decent team.

briancoolcat

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117643918#Comment_117643918

Yeah we were useless wont keep it pucked out to wexford. Jesus man i dont know what to say we have a bunch of young lads who are only playing together a short while. Probably the same for all the other counties, some freak goalkeeping kept a game offaly team from getting an unmerciful hiding there tonight. There are some fine hurlers on that minor team will you give them a chance to hurl a couple of more games together and see where they are then. You seem over critical of kilkenny teams in your above posts in a glass half empty kind of way. All we need is a few promising lads off this team and the one that lost to Galway to feed up to the seniors and we wont be doing too bad.

blackcard

Apologies, just frustrated that despite being a clearly superior team, we were only 3 points up with less than 10 minutes to go. I thought that a number of things were obvious at the first water break and it didn't seem like rocket science to put these right. No problem with any of the players, there are a number of promising lads and Harry Shine is a stylish hurler

therealdonster

Good win for the minors - the scoreline flattered a game but very limited Offaly side in my opinion. Kilkenny were far superior in most areas and in all aspects of play. When the game was there to be won they did what they had to do. Stand outs were Dunne, Doyle & Carey in midfield and obviously Shine. Hackett made a big impact when introduced.

Wexford will present a much stiffer challenge next week however. They are physically strong and won't allow Shine the same room and space that Offaly did. The other forwards will need to step up and contribute more on the scoresheet if we are to prevail.

tbiggertycome

In fairness to Shine he was ghosting all over the place and made clever runs scoring 1-07 from play and another 1-08 from placed balls is fair going. I'm sure he will face tougher tests but he will also take a lot of watching by any opposition which will hopefully mean easier opportunities for the other lads. I'm sure will probably have felt he left another goal or two behind him and a few of those frees were ones he would expect to get. Hopefully he keeps the head on the shoulders because I don't think the Boro ever had a forward like him.

Village87

Shine looks very promising. He could have had another 4-5 points from play only he was trying to work the goal. Kilkenny backs got a bit of a run around with the limited ball Offaly forwards had. Lyng and Corcoran were in big trouble on there side of the field. Kilkenny backs look vulnerable. Glennon looks a handful could have 3 goals. Carey and Doyle look strong midfield. Lads giving out about the long ball to Dunne but it worked a treat in the first half. Offaly had to drop a body back and try pick up the breaks and Shine really benefited from this.

suirway

Playing Dunne centre back although he stood out looks baffling given his underage pedigree as a forward. Won’t get away with it as the championship goes on in the same manner it cost county a minor All Ireland only a few weeks back.

tbiggertycome

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117645859#Comment_117645859

From what I've heard the biggest issue with Dunne is trying to decide where to play him as he is so good either forwards or backs. In fairness with Langton gone they didn't have much option and I don't think you can say that alone cost us the AI there were a lot more reasons. I think someone told me he has played a fair bit in the backs as well so it's not like he's a novice at it.

JJs Left Hand

He's not a novice at it but he's lethal in the forwards. Has a step off his left foot that'd leave most defenders on their arse and as can be seen from some of the handpasses he dished out to Shine dropping in behind the centre back last night he has incredible skill level and vision. But they obviously don't have anyone else they trust at centre back so he's put back there.

brookville

Slightly off topic but regarding our underage struggles it's no suprise that cork and Offaly done a full root and branch a few years ago and both are making great strides.I know we have tried to tackle this at juvenile level but are we doing enough from minor up?

Going on the last number of years form a team we beat comfortably at minor either beats us or causes us huge trouble at u20 level.Has anything changed to try address this over the last few years?we can change manager after manager but the problem is bigger than this.

I do agree with previous posts that I'd be concerned with the lack if pace in the minors backline.I thought we would of made a sub or two.Shine does look to have that bit extra and its great to have a forward to hopefully look forward to.I know these are all young chaps and will have ups and downs I know Offaly dropped a lad back in front of dunne and it opened things further out but I thought we should of varied things up more.Im conscious that we had a number of players involved in the defeat to galway so that game should bring that crop on.Cork will probably be the team to beat although galway should be strong.

Should be two good matches this weekend.clare have momentum but I fancy cork and the games to catch up with clare.Waterford have struggled to kick on from last year and galway will hardly be as poor again id expect galway to win this one.

We are in a good enough position we have a few weeks to get things right and there is a few spots up for grabs.We are adapting to the modern game and our bench has helped us see out games.

It took us a long time to get a full grip on dublin and some of our puckouts and deliveries will need to improve drastically if we are to win the next day.Id still have a few question marks over a few positions.It was noticeable after the leinster final when players removed their helmets this is mostly a new team with alot of younger players with a sprinkle of older very important players.This is in comparison to tipp and wexford who have being criticised for being slow to inject youth.

Browne could be under pressure the next day but I think mikey carey has improved alot and definitely gives us something different in defence.He was very close to starting the last day by all accounts and seems to be first sub in defence on the bench.He has huge burst of pace and isn't afraid to get up the field.

It's being well highlighted the last few years that our midfield has struggled time after time and we have chopped and changed here and still haven't got any closer to solving this.Ive heard suggestions of putting joey as holding number 6 and release padraig to midfield or delaney should be back the next day could he come into defence and maher pushed up to midfield because we won't keep getting away with this not working most days we go out.With the modern game the way it is maher was effective at wing back as wing forward.He scored more than his marker the last day.Adrian mullen has changed his game and is showing a huge appetite for work and has done well at midfield but we might need him up the field further.Its a pity leahy hasn't kicked on yet.A bit like Billy Ryan consistency is a real issue.We will need a huge performance from mossy and others who have being hot and cold if we are to win the next day.I would of thought Darren mullen might be able do a Job around midfield.

Alan Murphy and James bergin have being very good when the game opens up.It was good to see Hogan make the bench hopefully he can stay injury free and make an appearance the next day.

Tj is probably changing his game and spending more time inside but obviously still takes alot of watching.His free taken is exceptional but the positive for us is some of the others are slowly becoming leaders and we aren't as reliant as a few years ago.Eoin cody is a big help and takes some of the pressure off tj.

tbiggertycome

I think as you say TJ is changing his game probably realising his acceleration is probably not what it was. TJ is turning into a provider for the others. He also takes so much watching that it opens up opportunities for the younger lads. If you don't watch him close enough he can still destroy in about 15 minutes. I don't think TJ is looking for as much scores himself and he is doing Kilkenny a huge service helping to bring on and nurture these young lads. Given some of the talent coming through we should be in a decent place when TJ does decide to leave not that I want to see him go.

As always my biggest concern is the S&C work not being done with our under age guys and we get away with this until minor but we fall behind hugely up to U20 and good minors aren't able to make an impression on the senior game until their 23-24. There are a few exceptions but if you look at Donnelly, Billy Ryan, Mossy, Leahy, Delaney, Tommy Walsh. It's probably only last year or this year that these lads have physically got to where they need to be for senior. If the conveyor belt is a bit stronger maybe you can afford to leave lads with this talent on the bench until their 23 but we haven't been able too. I just think with a proper programme that tracks lads from 13 through to about 23 giving them the right work for their build and position. Lads who don't make the minor panel for a year because their too young should be kept tabs on and his programme updated for that year until he's on the minor panel the next year and the same between minor and U20. They can be back in their clubs during this time but can't be forgotten about and be at a disadvantage when brought back in. Anyway, nothing new here from me banging the same old drum and hopefully some of this is being implemented now they have the underage gym in Kierans🤞.

citykat

All that underage success doing sweet fcukall for Galway

dzer2

Ah they are a special county.

Something wrong in the set up