No more motorways - what ya reckon?

Strumms

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

That isnt the case at all . The Celtic Tiger motorways were built by a highly efficient agency called the national roads authority and they did a fantastic job. The integration of ecological and heritage concerns with road construction was incredibly successful and totally rewritten what we know of the history of this island.
I love trains but the reason so little was spent on trains is that we would never have the passenger numbers to justify brand newlines according to reports by the European Commission.

Any external body should have zero say in the matter....

Decisions need to be made locally by Irish people for the benefit of Ireland and its people...

Norway, Denmark, Finland have similarish populations, Croatia, Denmark, Switzerland and the Netherlands have smaller countries, yet every one of those countries have first class rail infrastructure and services..

If we had a joined up, efficient, modern, comfortable rail network here...jeeez wishful thinking I know...

RandomViewer

For Forks Sake wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvUItaradGE

VW Caravelle 2.5 Diesel,

cgcsb

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Most people would be better dead if all they have to look forward to in life is this notion of high density shared housing. ****ing hell.

This is how most of the world lives

AndrewJRenko

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This reflects the nonsense policy of securing social housing using Part V procedures, which essentially directs the cost of housing on to those who are themselves in need of a house. If social housing is required, then everyone should contribute to it, whether or not they buy a new house should not enter in to it.



It says a lot when you defend one ridiculous policy with another.

Where exactly did I defend the current Part V policy?

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

This is how most of the world lives

Sharing houses?

Anyway, even if it was true it’s still not right. Nothing to work towards or aspire to. Horrible way of existing.

the butcher

cgcsb wrote: »

This is how most of the world lives

Which eventually turns into this ->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr9XRmWNpfw

the butcher

the butcher wrote: »

Which eventually turns into this ->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr9XRmWNpfw

Equivalent of £1500/month?
Jasis

1874

fvp4 wrote: »

Opposing economic growth is the ultimate I’m alright Jack position. and would mean curtailing not just travel but immigration.

Im all for common sense, practical approaches, Ryan is a clueless hypocrite at best, he has the potential to be dangerous, but unfettered economic growth isn't necessarily possible or good environmentally, that said I dont think we should car crash the system, we need to change gradually and we need an approach that works the best for as many people as possible, what Ryan proposes is lunacy though, I dont think he is living in the real world. His and some of his party's opinions causes me concern, a lot of concern.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

lol, bloody educated young people, what would they know

Not necessarily much, being educated in one specialty or even generally doesnt mean you know everything or have a broad understanding of anything outside your own qualification.
Being educated is just the end of the first step, it does not mean a person is intelligent or a conscientious/good person/citizen. I do like cutting down morons who throw that in my or other peoples faces though.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The LUAS red line has been allowed fall in to scangerification and is unsafe for travel, the DART is beginning to fall in to this on the northside, what's the point in spending billions on infrastructure to allow it to be hijacked by scumbags, we need a transport police.

We need a specific branch of the Gardai that cant be removed from transport policing duties OR a completely different service if they are considered part and parcel of overall Gardai numbers. Gardai need to be overhauled anyway and we need to be able to stop and punish people who commit offences on public transport, so not stopping the train becaus eof anti social behaviour, have transport police trn up at the next station and remove offending person/s or occasionally on the trains/buses.

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The thing about the Greens is that they are more than willing to say to people that they should move from where they want to live and where their families live to some congested place near a tram or train. But, for some reason, they are not willing to say to people in Raheny (say), we are going to take your garden and make this railway line 4 tracks to provide a proper service.

Because they are hypocrites, Ryan drives a diesel, so fcuk his opinions on what people should do to be greener, the least he should do is buy a hybrid
Or go full EV, not liek he cant afford to do it if he is going to be so smug and self righteous.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But it's not up to the Greens to make these decisions. Bus Connects will require taking parts of people's gardens, is it the Greens doing this? It's fascinating how much power people think the Greens have, and that they are responsible for so many things in this country even though they've been in power 5 minutes and wont be around for long.

Im an environmentally conscientious person, I think about the environment, as much as possible and that I can afford I do things that I believe can help, but THANK FCUK the Greens wont be around for long, probably implode, I should have been thanking Chu in relaity for assisting imploding the Greens instead of denouncing her, maybe that has been her plan all along. The Greens are useless hypocrites.

FishOnABike wrote: »

Which is why rail is used so little and public transport is so unpopular for long journeys.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah but Ryan has shown numerous times he hasn't a clue about life outside his posh Dublin neighbourhood going by some of the random stuff he has come out with over the years.

He doesnt have a clue outside his own bubble, I live in Dublin and I doubt he has a clue outside his own limited agenda.

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The country is car dependent because that's how self respecting adults want to travel. Affordable greener cars is a better way forward than trying to force people onto buses; people will only take so much.

NO, its because of poor planning, but still we would need cars, we should have a better transport system that is comprehensive and would mean people wouldnt be as reliant on cars, but the cost and inconveninece for transport as it is now is not comparable to the car.
Public transport should improve, will it? I doubt it.
You cant just crash the system and remove cars, there needs to be a viable alternative, there isnt even a guarantee of your seat even if you pay for it on a train, let alone security on public transport.

RandomViewer wrote: »

VW Caravelle 2.5 Diesel,

Yup, because he is a hypocrite, he doesnt seem to be able to see that, but then again it was the greens that foisted the stupid diesel/reduced CO2 on us, so he looks after his own economic decisions that it is clearly viable for him to keep a diesel vehicle, but we have to what? travel by horse and cart.
I dont know how the Greens got back in again, people keep saying it is the end of them but they should not have been in the last time around.

Thelonious Monk

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Sharing houses?

Anyway, even if it was true it’s still not right. Nothing to work towards or aspire to. Horrible way of existing.

Nothing wrong with shared living while you're young and working in a city, most of us have done it, I had some good times anyway.
Regardless of that, we need denser living in our cities, space isn't infinite, and many people would prefer this way of living anyway.

ineedeuro

Sharing houses/apartments in part of growing up…..I shared houses all over the country and World, still best mates with a lot of the people. Meeting up and telling stories is a great laugh

AndrewJRenko

1874 wrote: »

Yup, because he is a hypocrite, he doesnt seem to be able to see that, but then again it was the greens that foisted the stupid diesel/reduced CO2 on us, so he looks after his own economic decisions that it is clearly viable for him to keep a diesel vehicle, but we have to what? travel by horse and cart.
I dont know how the Greens got back in again, people keep saying it is the end of them but they should not have been in the last time around.

I'm not his biggest fan, but where's the hypocrisy here? The most environmentally friendly thing any car owner can do is to keep their current running, until it actually reaches end of life. Replacing a diesel car with an electric car doesn't help the environment much, given that most of the environmental damage is done during manufacturing and disposal.
The changes in car tax for diesel were based on the best information available at the time. We were all lied to by the car manufacturers.

Thelonious Monk

ineedeuro wrote: »

Sharing houses/apartments in part of growing up…..I shared houses all over the country and World, still best mates with a lot of the people. Meeting up and telling stories is a great laugh

Same here, good times. There seems to be a consensus with the anti-everything brigade on boards though that no one wants to live in apartments or flats or anything resembling high rise. I'm sure loads of people living in semi-d land like myself would rather be in an apartment in or around the city centre if they were in any way affordable, there just aren't enough.

1874

When you are young, is that how it stays? FG and the Greens would have us the same for their own reasons,
Living in shoeboxes such as we have in apartment sizes when we are told that is how Continental Europeans live is bollix, they can have a much better set up than we do,
I dont know of any apartments that has security, or storage facilities, or a means to do deal with anti social behaviour such as noise, which is a big deal if you live in high density communal buildings.


Its all well and good saying sharing is ok when you are young, do those advocating it aspire to that for themselves or their own families, or is it like Eamon Ryan, tell us to be environmentally conscientious but drive a diesel, ie fcuking hypocritical.

Thelonious Monk

Who is advocating for older people sharing? People of all ages would live in apartments I'm sure, and I have some friends that live in some really nice ones in Dublin, they're not all horrible shoeboxes. What's the alternative to higher density living? Turning the whole island into a sprawling housing estate?
Also when the Greens are gone, do people think all this Green stuff is just going to go away? Who will you blame then?

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm not his biggest fan, but where's the hypocrisy here? The most environmentally friendly thing any car owner can do is to keep their current running, until it actually reaches end of life. Replacing a diesel car with an electric car doesn't help the environment much, given that most of the environmental damage is done during manufacturing and disposal.
The changes in car tax for diesel were based on the best information available at the time. We were all lied to by the car manufacturers.

I agree with that, but you cant have someone who can well afford to change up and be in a position to lead by example, use the dirtiest ICE engine possible? then heap upon us self righteous nonsense about what others should do.
What is your take on his supporting his electorate re the Metro? does he not stand by his convictions, most of his opinions are ridiculous.
I never knew, he apparently had a travel agency? is that still up and running, he is a damn hypocrite, he seems to expect the unwashed masses to change but he himself, well? is he better than the rest of us?
He can afford to change and just because his vehicle is sold, does that mean it is scrapped, no, someone else will get it until it can no longer pass the NCT or is not economically viable to keep going.
Nor do I think EV is the environmental answer, lot of problems there, even Hybrid is probably better.

1874

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Who is advocating for older people sharing? People of all ages would live in apartments I'm sure, and I have some friends that live in some really nice ones in Dublin, they're not all horrible shoeboxes. What's the alternative to higher density living? Turning the whole island into a sprawling housing estate?
Also when the Greens are gone, do people think all this Green stuff is just going to go away? Who will you blame then?

Apartment living might be the answer if the quality of life improves, at present someone living in an apartment could be surrounded by a host of noisy neighbors and not be able to do a damn thing about it.
I never said turn the island into a concrete housing estate, I agree with high density living, but I dont agree that we should reduce the quality of living as a consequence.
Currently, living in apartments imo is reducing your quality of life, for the most part that is what I have seen and its not down to just potential noise, unless you can afford to live in the nicest and most expensive apartments and area, you are likely to have anti social behaviour, an improved quality of life/reduced costs due to sharing of services/density of provided services should be an option for high density living for any socio-economic category people fit, not just the well heeled.

Thelonious Monk

What noise? Not all apartments are noisy, I've never lived in a noisy one. Sometimes I can hear my neighbours here in my terrace house, but that's just the way it is if you live in a city, it doesn't bother me.
In your opinion living in an apartment is reducing your quality of life, but for me it would probably improve my quality of life if I lived in an apartment in a more central area, as I like being within walking distance of all the stuff.
I think you're being a bit paranoid about anti-social behaviour, but then the whole of boards.ie seems to be, I know people living in apartments here and I have lived in a couple myself and anti-social behaviour was nothing I ever experienced. I used to live in an apartment in Finglas and it was a lovely place to live, and another in Stoneybatter. It's not all some big anti-social nightmare out there you know.

AndrewJRenko

1874 wrote: »

I agree with that, but you cant have someone who can well afford to change up and be in a position to lead by example, use the dirtiest ICE engine possible? then heap upon us self righteous nonsense about what others should do.
What is your take on his supporting his electorate re the Metro? does he not stand by his convictions, most of his opinions are ridiculous.
I never knew, he apparently had a travel agency? is that still up and running, he is a damn hypocrite, he seems to expect the unwashed masses to change but he himself, well? is he better than the rest of us?
He can afford to change and just because his vehicle is sold, does that mean it is scrapped, no, someone else will get it until it can no longer pass the NCT or is not economically viable to keep going.
Nor do I think EV is the environmental answer, lot of problems there, even Hybrid is probably better.

How does the environment benefit if he sells his vehicle and buys an EV? Now you have two vehicles on the road instead of one, the EV being slightly cleaner to run, but still pumping out tyre particles and brake pad particles, AND the additional environmental cost of manufacturing the EV.

The most environmentally friendly thing he can do is keep running his current vehicle until he really needs to replace it.

You've been sold a pup if you think that replacing working vehicles with EVs is a good thing for the environment. Over time, as current vehicles becoming obsolete, then replacing them with EVs is a less bad option than replacing it with another diesel, not rushing out to buy something new just for optics.

He had a bike shop, and a bike tour business, so he wasn't chartering 747s to fly around the world.

And yeah, he screwed up badly on the Metro opposition in Ranelagh.

Charles Babbage

Strumms wrote: »

Croatia, Denmark, Switzerland and the Netherlands have smaller countries, yet every one of those countries have first class rail infrastructure and services..

Croatia and Denmark both have more motorway than the ROI, so they see the importance of transport, not some ridiculous zero sum game between motorways and railways.

blackbox

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/status/1191295205187686400

There are almost as many people living in LA as in all of Ireland.

Covidhaveago

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Croatia and Denmark both have more motorway than the ROI, so they see the importance of transport, not some ridiculous zero sum game between motorways and railways.

Not much in it between Denmark and Ireland in terms of total km of built motorway. Once the M20 gap is plugged and the other smaller outstanding schemes are built it'll be pretty much equal. Not bad considering the Danes had decades head start in building motorways.

OTOH, public transport infrastructure in Denmarks 2 biggest cities is a generation ahead of the PT infrastructure we have in Dublin and Cork.

end of the road

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Congestion charges are a good idea but you'd only have that in the core. Like between the canals. They should build a tunnel under Dublin bay

there could perhapse be something said for that suggestion.
if you built it to a few lanes you would probably never need another outer road, and if it had a high price for usage you would probably pay back the costs reasonably enough all be it would probably take a good while.
i can't see it happening anyway as it would be an very expensive project.

ineedeuro

I think people need to get over the diesel and the Greens. First it was implemented 13 years ago and was based on data from 15 years ago. Nobody in the World was aware of the issues with diesel because the car manufacturers hide it and might not know about it today if VW hadn’t made such a huge impact in the US market and pi**ed off the US companies.
It’s was not just VW by the way covering up for the problems with diesel, all the car manufacturers did it, just VW got hit hardest.

You have people on here preaching that the past has to be forgotten about some parties and the next minute trying to hang the Greens on diesel and then on decision made when Greens where not in government

Most of these changes are coming because of teh Paris Agreement and I can’t remember but did any political party object to signing up to it?

ineedeuro

1874 wrote: »

I agree with that, but you cant have someone who can well afford to change up and be in a position to lead by example, use the dirtiest ICE engine possible? then heap upon us self righteous nonsense about what others should do.
What is your take on his supporting his electorate re the Metro? does he not stand by his convictions, most of his opinions are ridiculous.
I never knew, he apparently had a travel agency? is that still up and running, he is a damn hypocrite, he seems to expect the unwashed masses to change but he himself, well? is he better than the rest of us?
He can afford to change and just because his vehicle is sold, does that mean it is scrapped, no, someone else will get it until it can no longer pass the NCT or is not economically viable to keep going.
Nor do I think EV is the environmental answer, lot of problems there, even Hybrid is probably better.

If you are talking about Ryan it’s a Diesel engine converted to LPG or something like that. He said before it was better for environment not to swap it at all but if I google I see he has moved to a small electric in 2020 according to report. I know he said on radio before he had to swap as the fuel was very hard to find anymore for the van

Charles Babbage

Covidhaveago wrote: »

Not much in it between Denmark and Ireland in terms of total km of built motorway. Once the M20 gap is plugged and the other smaller outstanding schemes are built it'll be pretty much equal. Not bad considering the Danes had decades head start in building motorways.

OTOH, public transport infrastructure in Denmarks 2 biggest cities is a generation ahead of the PT infrastructure we have in Dublin and Cork.

When the M20 gap is plugged then Ireland will not be building large numbers of motorways either, or at least not until unification. And Denmark has a programme of extension and widening of the motorway network.



I'm sure we can learn from Denmark, a civilised country of similar size. But what we can learn is to build proper cycle infrastructure in cities, have good public transport, but have proper roads as well. Some people in this thread could learn from that approach.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

This is how most of the world lives

and alot of the world is third world, dictator run hell holes too

MikeOxsgreen

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Equivalent of £1500/month?
Jasis

but the high density will take cars off the road

1874

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What noise? Not all apartments are noisy, I've never lived in a noisy one. Sometimes I can hear my neighbours here in my terrace house, but that's just the way it is if you live in a city, it doesn't bother me.
In your opinion living in an apartment is reducing your quality of life, but for me it would probably improve my quality of life if I lived in an apartment in a more central area, as I like being within walking distance of all the stuff.
I think you're being a bit paranoid about anti-social behaviour, but then the whole of boards.ie seems to be, I know people living in apartments here and I have lived in a couple myself and anti-social behaviour was nothing I ever experienced. I used to live in an apartment in Finglas and it was a lovely place to live, and another in Stoneybatter. It's not all some big anti-social nightmare out there you know.

So you know what I have experienced or been told by people I know who live in apartments, Ive read threads about it here too, apartment living has its problems, which are worsened if they cant be dealt with. I would not wish that on someone at any age, especially when they are older.
You lucked out imo, I dont like the odds of 50:50 may or may not be lucky, and you could equally have problems in a semi-d, the problem like many is you can be expected to put up with it or move because there is no support in the gutless toothless couldnt care less excuse for organisations that supposedly have a remit to deal with these things.
I dont cut you down because you are ok or can afford a nice apartment in a nice locale, but I think you sound self righteous kinda like Mr Ryan himself accusing me of being paranoid of anti social behaviour, if you ever experience it, you will realise that organizations who's remit is to deal with certain things aren't interested because they have more of an interest in supporting not removing tenants from properties.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How does the environment benefit if he sells his vehicle and buys an EV? Now you have two vehicles on the road instead of one, the EV being slightly cleaner to run, but still pumping out tyre particles and brake pad particles, AND the additional environmental cost of manufacturing the EV.

The most environmentally friendly thing he can do is keep running his current vehicle until he really needs to replace it.

You've been sold a pup if you think that replacing working vehicles with EVs is a good thing for the environment. Over time, as current vehicles becoming obsolete, then replacing them with EVs is a less bad option than replacing it with another diesel, not rushing out to buy something new just for optics.

He had a bike shop, and a bike tour business, so he wasn't chartering 747s to fly around the world.

And yeah, he screwed up badly on the Metro opposition in Ranelagh.

Yet the last lines of my post you quoted were
"Nor do I think EV is the environmental answer, lot of problems there, even Hybrid is probably better." so did you even read what I wrote.
Look, this is how useful the Greens are, nice ideas in lala land, they were more concerned about light bulbs at the time there was Crypto sporidium in the water in the West of Ireland and that was in their previous outing and years later we still have problems with water treatment all across the country, around the same time they latched onto Diesels and CO2, so they clearly are utterly clueless.

ineedeuro wrote: »

If you are talking about Ryan it’s a Diesel engine converted to LPG or something like that. He said before it was better for environment not to swap it at all but if I google I see he has moved to a small electric in 2020 according to report. I know he said on radio before he had to swap as the fuel was very hard to find anymore for the van

Something like that? to the best of my knowledge you cannot convert a diesel to run on LPG, thats for petrol conversions.
So maybe he was running it on waste oil/fat, I dont know if many people are doing that, but there are waste by products (chemicals that have to be disposed of) from converting waste oils/fats to a fuel that can be mixed with diesel to burn, not that even means it is environmentally sound to burn.
You probably should look that up before stating something like that.


You dont have to be in the Green party or support them to be concerned or do anything about the environment, from what I can see, politicians and the State pay lip service to it, the Green party seems to be for something else.

AndrewJRenko

1874 wrote: »

Yet the last lines of my post you quoted were
"Nor do I think EV is the environmental answer, lot of problems there, even Hybrid is probably better." so did you even read what I wrote.
Look, this is how useful the Greens are, nice ideas in lala land, they were more concerned about light bulbs at the time there was Crypto sporidium in the water in the West of Ireland and that was in their previous outing and years later we still have problems with water treatment all across the country, around the same time they latched onto Diesels and CO2, so they clearly are utterly clueless.

Hybrid would be even worse!

Lookit, you're clutching at straws with all the oul cliches about light bulbs and more.

Why are you blaming the Greens for water quality? They've been in Government for 1 of the last 11 years. You might want to direct your anger elsewhere.

ineedeuro

^^
The odds are not 50/50. Majority of apartment are wel built and wel insulated. Yes of course some terrible ones but then again I lived in houses and not a stitch of insulation in them. You could hear everything from next door. It was like they just ran the floor boards right through all the house and stuck a partition on top