No more motorways - what ya reckon?

Thelonious Monk

1874 wrote: »

So you know what I have experienced or been told by people I know who live in apartments, Ive read threads about it here too, apartment living has its problems, which are worsened if they cant be dealt with. I would not wish that on someone at any age, especially when they are older.
You lucked out imo, I dont like the odds of 50:50 may or may not be lucky, and you could equally have problems in a semi-d, the problem like many is you can be expected to put up with it or move because there is no support in the gutless toothless couldnt care less excuse for organisations that supposedly have a remit to deal with these things.
I dont cut you down because you are ok or can afford a nice apartment in a nice locale, but I think you sound self righteous kinda like Mr Ryan himself accusing me of being paranoid of anti social behaviour, if you ever experience it, you will realise that organizations who's remit is to deal with certain things aren't interested because they have more of an interest in supporting not removing tenants from properties.

It's 50/50 chance of getting a quiet place to live in Dublin, what? This is Ireland not Aleppo ffs.
I don't live in some leafy suburb or anything like that, it's maybe half social housing these days around here, and there don't seem to be many problems apart from the usual things like litter and the odd noisy party. I really think you do sound paranoid and angry at the world tbh.
People post here when they have problems with neighbours, but the other 99% of us aren't posting about the fact that our neighbours are ok regardless of their social status.

Thelonious Monk

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Hybrid would be even worse!

Lookit, you're clutching at straws with all the oul cliches about light bulbs and more.

Why are you blaming the Greens for water quality? They've been in Government for 1 of the last 11 years. You might want to direct your anger elsewhere.

Water quality has badly deteriorated in the last 20 years in Ireland, you just know that when the Greens are gone from Gov next time they'll get the blame for not fixing that too, it's hilarious.

magicbastarder

i'm chuckling at the notion that the greens are to blame for ****ty apartments in ireland.
as mentioned, last time it was in government, it instituted what (AFAIK) still remains the biggest reform of the planning system the state has seen.
if anyone is to blame for substandard apartment developments, it ain't the greens. i think we know who we can blame instead.

magicbastarder

the funny thing is, of the three parties in coalition, the greens (despite their habit of washing their dirty linen in public) seem to be achieving more of their agenda than the other two. granted, covid got in the way but since people seem to blame the greens for what happened ireland during the financial crash, swings and roundabouts.

anyway, it's always been the job of the junior partner in a coalition to act as sandbags for the senior partner. plus ca change.

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Hybrid would be even worse!

Lookit, you're clutching at straws with all the oul cliches about light bulbs and more.

Why are you blaming the Greens for water quality? They've been in Government for 1 of the last 11 years. You might want to direct your anger elsewhere.

They were in Govt at the time of the Cryptospiridium was a huge issue in the West and at the time they were harping on about light bulbs

ineedeuro wrote: »

^^
The odds are not 50/50. Majority of apartment are wel built and wel insulated. Yes of course some terrible ones but then again I lived in houses and not a stitch of insulation in them. You could hear everything from next door. It was like they just ran the floor boards right through all the house and stuck a partition on top

Id say the record on quality of construction of apartments seems to speak for itself, Id say many problems are unknown, however I was not talking about the build quality.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm chuckling at the notion that the greens are to blame for ****ty apartments in ireland.
as mentioned, last time it was in government, it instituted what (AFAIK) still remains the biggest reform of the planning system the state has seen.
if anyone is to blame for substandard apartment developments, it ain't the greens. i think we know who we can blame instead.

I never said the Greens were responsible for build quality problems, they exist.
My issue was a poster saying that the solution is high density living, maybe to environmental concerns, but not quality of life. They also interpreted for their own end that Im saying noise Id be concerned about is external noise common to a city, Im talking about anti social noise.
Lots of things could be improved for environmental purposes, like transport, a metro, which Mr Ryan seems is opposed to, would it be an attractive alternative to a person who might not feel safe because there is no element of security, not the greens fault but solutions need to be complete, not half a$$ed, I wouldnt get on the RED Luas line, not the Greens fault security is poor.
Anyway, both scenarios are good examples of where our politicians have fcuked up, because transport is poor, with poor options, like housing, been made a complete balls of.
At least we have motorways we can get around on for the moment.


As for electric cars, I do believe they are more efficient than ICE cars, even Hybrids, certainly I think it is down to the manufacturers who design the battery component of the car to look at options for re-use and how to break it down safely for its materials in an environmentally sounf manner.


As for anti social, as I write Im listening to someone lashing out a bit of music at 11.15pm because ignorant selfish cnuts can live anywhere.

AndrewJRenko

1874 wrote: »

They were in Govt at the time of the Cryptospiridium was a huge issue in the West and at the time they were harping on about light bulbs

Governments can do more than one thing at a time.

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Governments can do more than one thing at a time.

Is that so, well can they even do one thing right?

AndrewJRenko

1874 wrote: »

Is that so, well can they even do one thing right?

Why don't you ask those who keep voting for them?

Or you can look at the improvement in cancer outcomes over the past 20 years.

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why don't you ask those who keep voting for them?

Or you can look at the improvement in cancer outcomes over the past 20 years.

I thought this was about motorways and green issues,
Have cancer outcomes really improved? from what I heard that was in shambles too,
So I suppose Eamon Ryan and the Greens are responsible for things getting better so??
Maybe you can show how they are to be thanked for that?


Its not just the Greens but any political party's fanboys, they just dont see past their failings, its like some kind of sickness.

AndrewJRenko

1874 wrote: »

I thought this was about motorways and green issues,
Have cancer outcomes really improved? from what I heard that was in shambles too,
So I suppose Eamon Ryan and the Greens are responsible for things getting better so??
Maybe you can show how they are to be thanked for that?


Its not just the Greens but any political party's fanboys, they just dont see past their failings, its like some kind of sickness.

You asked "can they even do one thing" so don't blame me when the answer doesn't suit you.

Maybe you should give less weight to "what you heard" from some moaner and more weight to actual facts?

Charles Babbage

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Governments can do more than one thing at a time.

I agree. They can both build some motorways and improve public transport.

1874

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You asked "can they even do one thing" so don't blame me when the answer doesn't suit you.

Maybe you should give less weight to "what you heard" from some moaner and more weight to actual facts?

Ok, well you suggested they are responsible for improving cancer outcomes, any proof of that? or that it wouldnt have happened otherwise or due to other circumstances?

cgcsb

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Sharing houses?

Anyway, even if it was true it’s still not right. Nothing to work towards or aspire to. Horrible way of existing.

No, living in high density areas, that generally means apartment living.

ineedeuro

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I agree. They can both build some motorways and improve public transport.

They don't need to build motorways, the system is more or less complete

cgcsb

the butcher wrote: »

Which eventually turns into this ->

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr9XRmWNpfw

lol, could you imagine if everyone in Hong Kong had a house? now that would be grim. Not a patch of green left. Our apartment building standards mean that units built from now on are relatively speaking palaces compared to most Hong Kong apartments. For them their apartments are infinitely superior to the weather dependent huts their grand parents had in the country side and standards there are improving all the time.

cgcsb

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Croatia and Denmark both have more motorway than the ROI, so they see the importance of transport, not some ridiculous zero sum game between motorways and railways.

Hair splitting, Denmark has about a million more people than the RoI. All of Ireland has a slightly larger population than Denmark and just slightly less km of motorway (despite NI having abandoned motorway building in the 1980s). The M20 and other small schemes will give Ireland a network about the same length as Denmark.

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

and alot of the world is third world, dictator run hell holes too

The rest of the European Union, the worlds most socially and economically advanced region, lives this way.

iColdFusion

The problems with apartments are:

• They are now too expensive to build and not cost effective versus student accommodation or office space, most developers will tell you this, partly to do with building regulations and the knee jerk reaction after grenfell, even worse now with materials cost inflation.
• Most wont get planning if they have any decent amount of parking spaces (councils want to discourage cars) and developers are happy enough as basement carparks cost too much but no use for someone who needs a car.
• Tied into the above, where are you going to charge your electric car, you don't have a driveway and there is next to no public infrastructure.
• Most people in apts have seen how terrible they are when a pandemic hits, you are stuck in a shoe box for weeks at a time and two people WFH is hard to manage.
• Generally the European countries mentioned have lifetime rents and much better rent controls so apartment tenants are invested in living in that area and caring about their neighbours, different to Ireland where its all about landlords making as much money as possible and tenant turnover can be high and on the opposite end lets not forget how Ballymun used to be.

On topic we still need to build more motorway with roadside charging stations, people are just moving to electric cars not away from cars and better roads mean more distance covered per car charge which is needed to get people over range anxiety unless their is some magic jump in battery technology soon. If the infrastructure isn't there people will still have one electric car for local journeys and one diesel car just in case.

ineedeuro

iColdFusion wrote: »

The problems with apartments are:

• They are now too expensive to build and not cost effective versus student accommodation or office space, most developers will tell you this, partly to do with building regulations and the knee jerk reaction after grenfell, even worse now with materials cost inflation.
• Most wont get planning if they have any decent amount of parking spaces (councils want to discourage cars) and developers are happy enough as basement carparks cost too much but no use for someone who needs a car.
• Tied into the above, where are you going to charge your electric car, you don't have a driveway and there is next to no public infrastructure.
• Most people in apts have seen how terrible they are when a pandemic hits, you are stuck in a shoe box for weeks at a time and two people WFH is hard to manage.
• Generally the European countries mentioned have lifetime rents and much better rent controls so apartment tenants are invested in living in that area and caring about their neighbours, different to Ireland where its all about landlords making as much money as possible and tenant turnover can be high and on the opposite end lets not forget how Ballymun used to be.

On topic we still need to build more motorway with roadside charging stations, people are just moving to electric cars not away from cars and better roads mean more distance covered per car charge which is needed to get people over range anxiety unless their is some magic jump in battery technology soon. If the infrastructure isn't there people will still have one electric car for local journeys and one diesel car just in case.

No we don't. The charger locations are already agreed and a lot are in place. The day of a 80-100km Leaf are long gone.
Range anxiety is a thing of the past

iColdFusion

ineedeuro wrote: »

No we don't. The charger locations are already agreed and a lot are in place. The day of a 80-100km Leaf are long gone.
Range anxiety is a thing of the past

We are nowhere near where we need to be to cater for the volume of electric cars that are coming, there is the odd charge point at a hotel, carpark, supermarket etc but these are not public points, we need the councils to build Tesla style DC fast charge public parking bays for 10+ cars throughout the country ideally at public transport hubs so I can drive to Galway, plug in the car and explore the city for the day.
The current network will be totally swamped soon enough, the VW ID3 & 4 seem to be selling very well for instance so all it takes is for a few of them to go to west Cork for the weekend and that's most of the charge points occupied plus its inevitable someone is going to force taxis to go electric and they will be taking up most of the points in every city day in day out.

cgcsb

iColdFusion wrote: »

On topic we still need to build more motorway with roadside charging stations, people are just moving to electric cars not away from cars and better roads mean more distance covered per car charge which is needed to get people over range anxiety unless their is some magic jump in battery technology soon. If the infrastructure isn't there people will still have one electric car for local journeys and one diesel car just in case.

Only a tiny fraction of journeys are intercity journeys. Most are within our towns and cities so motorways aren't any use when we already have a full intercity network (pending M20 completion).

Fewer young people have a drivers license these days and cant afford the insurance anyway.

More and more people are living in cities.

Podge_irl

iColdFusion wrote: »

The problems with apartments are:

• They are now too expensive to build and not cost effective versus student accommodation or office space, most developers will tell you this, partly to do with building regulations and the knee jerk reaction after grenfell, even worse now with materials cost inflation.
• Most wont get planning if they have any decent amount of parking spaces (councils want to discourage cars) and developers are happy enough as basement carparks cost too much but no use for someone who needs a car.
• Tied into the above, where are you going to charge your electric car, you don't have a driveway and there is next to no public infrastructure.
• Most people in apts have seen how terrible they are when a pandemic hits, you are stuck in a shoe box for weeks at a time and two people WFH is hard to manage.
• Generally the European countries mentioned have lifetime rents and much better rent controls so apartment tenants are invested in living in that area and caring about their neighbours, different to Ireland where its all about landlords making as much money as possible and tenant turnover can be high and on the opposite end lets not forget how Ballymun used to be.

On topic we still need to build more motorway with roadside charging stations, people are just moving to electric cars not away from cars and better roads mean more distance covered per car charge which is needed to get people over range anxiety unless their is some magic jump in battery technology soon. If the infrastructure isn't there people will still have one electric car for local journeys and one diesel car just in case.

Then you fix the problems with apartments - everyone owning a house is simply unfeasible on several different levels.

Also, the list is nonsense. You can't simply choose between office space and apartments, there are planning and zoning restrictions. Car ownership in Dublin city centre for example is incredibly low. If anything planning requirements require too many parking spaces for developments.

Charles Babbage

ineedeuro wrote: »

They don't need to build motorways, the system is more or less complete

More or less means nearly there, not finished. Most of the system is there, they do need to build some more. Nobody is saying they need to triple the system.

cgcsb wrote:

Fewer young people have a drivers license these days and cant afford the insurance anyway.

That's a depressing thought, the next generation with a poorer lifestyle than the previous one. But I expect some people here welcome this.

ineedeuro

Charles Babbage wrote: »

More or less means nearly there, not finished. Most of the system is there, they do need to build some more. Nobody is saying they need to triple the system.






That's a depressing thought, the next generation with a poorer lifestyle than the previous one. But I expect some people here welcome this.

Once the Cork to Limerick is done they need no more.

Owning a car is not a sign of a better lifestyle. Millions of people around the World live in a lot better conditions and a lot better lifestyle to Ireland and never own a car and never have a drivers license. Go to Berlin/Amsterdam/Rotherdam/etc etc and tell people they have a "poorer lifestyle" to Ireland because they don't drive cars and wait for the reaction

We should be investing in technology and solution so in the future a car is not a requirement

Podge_irl

Charles Babbage wrote: »

That's a depressing thought, the next generation with a poorer lifestyle than the previous one. But I expect some people here welcome this.

Indeed. I find it incredibly depressing that cars have completely taken over residential streets and the current youth generation can't properly enjoy the outdoors because of the proliferation of private vehicles everywhere.

1874

ineedeuro wrote: »

Once the Cork to Limerick is done they need no more.

Owning a car is not a sign of a better lifestyle. Millions of people around the World live in a lot better conditions and a lot better lifestyle to Ireland and never own a car and never have a drivers license. Go to Berlin/Amsterdam/Rotherdam/etc etc and tell people they have a "poorer lifestyle" to Ireland because they don't drive cars and wait for the reaction

We should be investing in technology and solution so in the future a car is not a requirement

We have cars because we need them, a comprehensive integrated transport network infrastructure doesnt exist.

Stovepipe

Range anxiety is a thing of the past[/QUOTE]
you clearly dont know how batteries work. range anxiety is as real as it ever was. Hybrids will still only give you 80-100 kms on a charge. battery tech still has a long way to go before it equals the energy transfer of petrol or diesel.

Charles Babbage

Podge_irl wrote: »

Indeed. I find it incredibly depressing that cars have completely taken over residential streets and the current youth generation can't properly enjoy the outdoors because of the proliferation of private vehicles everywhere.

They'd find it hard to get outdoors if they are relying on public transport.

ineedeuro wrote: »

Owning a car is not a sign of a better lifestyle. Millions of people around the World live in a lot better conditions and a lot better lifestyle to Ireland and never own a car and never have a drivers license. Go to Berlin/Amsterdam/Rotherdam/etc etc and tell people they have a "poorer lifestyle" to Ireland because they don't drive cars and wait for the reaction

If you do not have a drivers licence then you have limited your lifestyle and you cannot participate in many aspects of life at all. To choose such an impoverished life is a sign of a lack of imagination.

ineedeuro

1874 wrote: »

We have cars because we need them, a comprehensive integrated transport network infrastructure doesnt exist.

Exactly, so that is why the Greens are saying we need to build a proper public transport system now.

ineedeuro

Charles Babbage wrote: »

They'd find it hard to get outdoors if they are relying on public transport.



If you do not have a drivers licence then you have limited your lifestyle and you cannot participate in many aspects of life at all. To choose such an impoverished life is a sign of a lack of imagination.

What can you not participate in life without a car? apart from driving of course