Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629491#Comment_118629491

You can just turn down the volume or put it on mute and no would know you are not answering the calls at your desk. Likewise you can route calls though any number of mobile devices. You don't need a desk phone or be tied to one physical location.

What you are saying is you have no way of measuring output and productivity. You are pretending you are be seeing if they are at their desk.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629487#Comment_118629487

I find the annual leave requests being posted down to a decentralised office a bit hard to believe. Although, the OPW paid out expenses to some staff twice as they are still using a paper based system. I would have thought it is cheaper and easier to just use an app for this stuff nowadays.

trigger26

Just got a one learning alert for a virtual meeting on "Dealing with anxiety and going back to the workplace as society reopens after Covid 19" this Wednesday. What an awful use of grammar! Teeing up for the news on Thursday....

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629706#Comment_118629706

That was happening until the organisation moved to HR Shared Services - maybe around 8 years ago. You got a leave sheet for the year, you wrote down the agreed dates and your boss signed to approve it. You'd send it down the country in the internal post every time you applied for leave, and they'd post it back up to you when it was processed. I think some Departments were still doing it as recently as 3-4 years ago.

I spoke to a medical consultant's secretary recently who hasn't been able to get emails for a number of months, and everything must be done by post. They were a bit shocked when I phoned them even.

The Department of Education spends circa €2 - 2.5m a year posting fortnightly pay slips to teachers and retired teachers.

You'll find hundreds of archaic processes - these are just some of the ones I'm aware of.

Moll68

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629072#Comment_118629072

"The original poster is assuming they are on hold for a long because staff are working remotely - no evidence of that just an assumption that remote working isnt working properly. The office may just be very busy." Sorry but the original poster is not assuming anything just stating a fact - services are not the same as pre-pandemic and the original poster totally understands how busy offices can be at times but not 100% of the time and since pandemic my own personal experience has been that it is next to impossible to get through to a lot of departments - you might not like me saying that but that is my experience and the experience of many other people that I have spoken to.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630355#Comment_118630355

I wasnt disagreeing with you but why are you assuming it is connected to remote working.

There could be a lot of other reasons why you are finding it difficult to through to offices by phones as highlighted by other posters. Im not disagreeing with your experience but staff could be in the office but understaffed and busy.

Are they contactable by email/online?

As highlighted by another poster long wait times by phone isnt new to some civil service offices?

Genuine question.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629662#Comment_118629662

well said. Offices having long delays in answering phones isnt solved just by staff sitting at their desks in offices.

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629546#Comment_118629546

It has everything to do with it. Even the best manager in the world won't have as much engagement via a computer screen as they will in the office next door.

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630133#Comment_118630133

These practices are not limited to CS. When I worked in a large private sector company (400+ staff) my leave was done by paper. This was less than 5 years ago.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630614#Comment_118630614

well I can somewhat understand paper being used, although there are plenty of software tools available for managing leave. The thing that sounds nuts is posting it to a decentralised office and getting a letter back a while later.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630453#Comment_118630453

In my Department we were issued laptops and you can access everything you previously would have had in the office. Calls to your work landline are routed via Skype - so we haven't skipped a beat. The people working the switch are still there and putting calls through to us also.

However from my experience many Departments don't have that capability. Staff are working from personal mobile phones in many cases. Quite senior people in many cases have email signatures containing only their old landline number - which they can't access remotely.

At the moment if you call one of the largest Government Departments you'll get an automated recording asking you to leave a message and advising you that emergency queries will be responded to.

Quite a long way to go in terms of modernisation.

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630635#Comment_118630635

We got the carbon copy of the slip back for our own records. But it was obviously just sent to HR.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630608#Comment_118630608

I'm curious what you consider to be engagement with your team is? and why its needs to be done in person?

https://www.roberthalf.co.uk/advice/people-management/motivating-your-team-25-ways-increase-employee-engagement

https://www.nutcache.com/blog/how-to-engage-employees/

Vologda69

What's happening with Revenue Commissioners at the moment? Still wfh?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630614#Comment_118630614

Until the lockdown ours (not in the CS) was still on paper and in triplicate. The irony being our Flexi time was recorded on a computer system, which we would then reconcile with the paper record. It was late every year so we would keep our own records, then backdate it on the sheets, when they got around to printing the official forms a few months after they were needed.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630962#Comment_118630962

Per the survey I did last week (post #529 on page 18), yes, they're still WFH fulltime.

TaurenDruid

I'm surprised at the prevailing attitude here that "senior management" in the CS are opposed to WFH. It's only personal anecdote, obviously, but I don't know a single AP or PO who wants to see a fulltime return to the office. Obviously they exist, and obviously those looking after certain areas will rightly have to insist on a higher office presence to some extent - public offices and counters, facilities and estates management, some corporate services, some ICT, and the like. But most APs and POs fully availed of WFH themselves for the past two years and aren't in any hurry to return to the office 4 or 5 days a week.

billyhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631167#Comment_118631167

A lot of senior managers couldn't give a monkeys if your WFH or not. They just want the job done.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630608#Comment_118630608

Completely agree - if you have a team of ten, it just doesn't scale to be doing zoom meetings twice a week (or even once a week) individually. But passing by the desk with a bit of encouragement and a genuine personal and positive message takes 2 minutes and can have a bigger impact on somebody's day than an hour long stilted and formal zoom call at times.

Long term, I think a lot of people will find morale and engagement lower from less face to face, but a lot of individuals don't care about their productivity or engagement being lower though - as there's no consequence or it doesn't make any difference to them. In fact, the less you do, teh less is expected of you so it's a win win. It's only management that care about results in a lot of cases.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630645#Comment_118630645

ah ok yes that seems to be the case in some places. We removed landlines in 2020 but again Im public sector not civil service. Interesting.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630608#Comment_118630608

depends on the manager. I meet weekly with one manager every week remotely and havent met in person in 2 years. Works very well. The other manager who sits very close to me in the office I rarely see either in person or remotely.

Maybe you have a personal preference to engage face to face. We dont all need that.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631203#Comment_118631203

Engagement with a team isn't 2 mins of platitudes as you do a drive by the desk. In my opinion.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631291#Comment_118631291

What I find interesting is so many are annoyed by having to do meetings where they keep bring their team up to date. In most cases it's because they never had to do that before. The team would just be left in the dark. It's was just less obvious in the office.

gauchesnell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631364#Comment_118631364

100% agree - seeing someone daily just cos they pass your desk is not the same as engagement and briefing your team imo but people are different. I know which one I prefer.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118627730#Comment_118627730

nah. In most cases it’s the private sector companies that lead the way on WFH long before Covid. Often suits in terms of worker location and less overheads for pointless office space.

Avenger2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631343#Comment_118631343

Dead right. Lazy managers do that 2 min desk drive by. Managers should be briefing their staff in zoom meetings so any questions can be answered. If they find it so daunting, maybe include staff in some meetings as observers.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631408#Comment_118631408

To be fair, I think you need both. I am not suggesting for a second that passing by the desk is sufficient or meaningful engagement - it's not. It also depends on your span of control as a manager - if you have 3-4 reports you can do meetings a lot more regularly - with 10 reports you are talking about a one to one every fortnight max, and the short informal pieces, can supplement the less regular deeper and meaningful engagement by helping people feel a little bit connected in between.

If you have a situation where your team emails you over every little thing, it also takes up multiples of time via email and coaching people to find their own solutions doesn't work or land as well via email as in person. Staff development for new hires building skills like initiative, problem-solving, and leadership will really take a hit without shadowing and coaching imo. If you are an established and experienced professional it might be different.

I really think a 50:50ish type blend gives the best of both worlds.

BhoyRayzor

If your job is to answer the phone there should be records of wait times, calls answered, etc. so no difference if doing it in the office or remotely if managed.

You can't really compare the two while completely ignoring the impact the pandemic has had on staff - retirements, sick leave, training, IT, etc.

I doubt anyone would prefer a 1 hour plus commute each way to have a 2 minute pep talk from a manager. I don't think anyone is necessarily arguing if virtual is better than face to face, it's whether the cost is worth it.

One day a week in the office is plenty for training and team meetings.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626907#Comment_118626907

The hold put on in November was nothing to do with omicron.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626927#Comment_118626927

Also wondering about that. Could be discriminatory on grounds of family status.

The original "term time" scheme was only open to parents of school age children and carers. They changed it pretty quickly to the "Shorter Working Year Scheme" which is open to all, for the same reason.