Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118978479#Comment_118978479

No, we're using Softworks, for our sins!

We can clock on the webpage, so we don't have to be physically in the office to use it.

SouthWesterly

We have clockwise. Wfh 4 days a week at the moment. Going to 3 days next month.

I've time on my clock since before covid I can't use. I start at 8 finish at 4 but it'd flexible within core hours

yabadabado

I think there are several systems across department's.

Core portal is the system I've seen a few places and that has card and online clocking.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977622#Comment_118977622

Exactly - it gets very difficult with more knowledge-based work vs tickets or processing claims etc.

e.g. preparing a briefing document could take 10 hours or a worker could easily say it took 20 hours (when it took 10) and clock up an extra 1.5 days flexi.

I think as somebody suggested allowing flexi accrual in office only could be the middle ground here (and flexi hours WFH)

Addle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980975#Comment_118980975

I genuinely believe the type of employees who skive like that at home, will also do so in the office.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980996#Comment_118980996

I agree but there is much less incentive to do so if it means you still have to be physically in the office (coffee, surfing the net are your main alternatives to work and essentially you are still stuck in the office and restricted even if you are skiving - people might stay an extra 30 mins looking at Facebook but staying and doing it for an extra 2 hours would be a different story) vs at home (out shopping, watching netflix, housework, family time)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118977357#Comment_118977357

Do people really think there s not going to be a cohort of people working 2 hours flexi extra at home some days (with no extra output except some housework and netflix) and then taking 1.5 days off from working in the office?

I don't think anyone here is under an illusions that abuse of flexi accrual has and probably will happen. That's the problem!

But someone can clock in at the office at 8am and read the paper for an hour or scroll their phone and still do the same thing. So I genuinely don't know what the solution is.

It is true, and I mentioned it earlier on in the thread, that managers are supposed to monitor their reports' workloads, and only approve flexi hours to be accrued where work cannot be completed within the standard working day - but that seems to have fallen completely by the wayside.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118980996#Comment_118980996

This has been the same always bbut when your in the office your stuck in the office with maybe a boss around, at home you could be sunnying yourself, outside mowing the lawn watching tv/movie playing video games etc

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981173#Comment_118981173

Your right they can do that but they are stuck in an office while doing sop and a supervisor may "find them work". At home you could be anywhere doing anything

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981173#Comment_118981173

The unions and dignity and respect people would be on top of any manager who asked for a list of work that needed to be done outside of normal hours. Not worth it as a manager imo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118981337#Comment_118981337

Maybe a better way to put it was, managers are supposed to ensure that their reports are actually working while accruing flexi hours, that they're not just staying back for an extra hour every day or every other day to make up hours on the clock for flexi days.

The Unions couldn't argue with that.

exitstageleft

It's ridiculous that the fear of a minority of workers cheating their employer affects benefits for everyone.

What about work monitoring at home? There are different systems from key stroke counts to random photographs that capture either the worker or their screen. It sounds Orwellian but I'd rather that than not be allowed work from home while accumulating flexileave.

At the very least, people should be forced to use their messaging systems corrctly (ie: Teams/Skype). If you're online and green you should be answering immediately. A coffee break is a brb status. And don' even get me started on people who won't turn their cameras on...

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982361#Comment_118982361

I'd sooner resign than have my employer monitoring key strokes and taking photos at random.

Bizzare that people love Flexi so much they'd trade it for that level of intrusion!

Personally I wouldn't even find the hassle of clocking in and out worth it for Flexi.

mmrs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982361#Comment_118982361

Random photos that capture the worker, in their own home, can you just pause and think about that. The minefield of issues with that is so overwhelming it could never be up for consideration, from either side.

exitstageleft

When you're at work in an open plan office people can glance over and see you at any stage. If you're working from home then why should that be different? Working from home shouldn't mean working in your pjamas in bed. You should be dressed, at your desk, just like in the office.

But anyway, you could also just capture keystrokes and screen grabs if there's concern about an employee. Perhaps it wouldn't be all the time but would be instigated if there were concerns over performance.

If employees want to work from home there needs to be some give in providing reassurance to their employers. If you object to monitoring then go to the office.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982757#Comment_118982757

While you could be subject to investigation, the employer would want to be on very sure footing before singling out an individual employee like that. There would need to be a very significant issue regarding fraud or theft.

A far better approach would be for managers and staff to be clear on the key deliverables - once those are being met there really isn't much to be fussing about.

A good manager who has a handle on the job will also know when a member of their team is dragging the ar** out of a task, and should be able to pull them up on it in a way that isn't confrontational.

Gusser09

Forget about the 27 minutes day. With WFH we are saving more than that on the commute anyway so it's evened itself out. Go for the money. 5 percent at least. And not 5 percent over 3 years either. 5 percent upfront. When our pay was cut they implemented it straight away.

This isn't a rise. It's restoration.

Addle

I don’t think staff should be allowed accrue time when wfh. WFH can save a person a serious amount of leave. It means I don’t need flexi like I used to. The appointments that I used to have to take a day off for now only require a half days leave. The days off to be home for a delivery, trades call or work around the house also save on leave.

As mentioned above, the time saved by not having to commute is better than flexi.

We just can’t have everything. It’s greedy. I hope the Union are picking their battles wisely.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983108#Comment_118983108

I wholeheartedly agree with you that better management is the best approach. I'm only suggesting possible options to counter the deceitful / lazy home worker trope.

Have all departments returned to the office at this stage? Even partially? Thanks.

@TaurenDruid

Maybe if we ask @TaurenDruid nicely they will do another survey of what options people would prefer in relation to flexi accrual, or not, as the case may be.

Seeing as I can't recall anyone from the Union actually doing it.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983658#Comment_118983658

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984044#Comment_118984044

Maybe a new survey for both is in order!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118984420#Comment_118984420

That would be great!

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118975740#Comment_118975740

Shorter hours don't pay any bills.

We're looking at a pay cut of about 10% over last year and this, and I very much doubt we'll get more than 2 or 3% in the "renegotiation" and that will probably be over 18 months 🙄

Addle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118987845#Comment_118987845

Bills will get even higher to cover the cost of pay increases.

Hotblack Desiato

I don't work for Electric Ireland or Applegreen or Dunnes so what pay "increase" I get won't affect what they charge me, which is going up quite a lot already.

Of course a pay increase which matches inflation (which we're unlikely to get) isn't a pay rise at all. The figures on the payslip go up but the value doesn't. Inflation means higher tax receipts for the government (in number terms) so there's no reason not to be increasing public sector pay (in number terms) accordingly.

A return to pre-HRA working hours is welcome but it simply cannot be allowed to be used as an excuse to reduce or avoid pay increases. We were never paid a cent for those hours. I don't know about teaching or health but in the CS I doubt there was any productivity benefit to those hours at all. Let's just say people saw their pay going down and their hours going up and adjusted their enthusiasm for work accordingly. The job still got done, it just took an extra 27 minutes per day. Pointless. The important thing was that the government at the time was seen to be being "tough on public servants" 🙄

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118989666#Comment_118989666

The important thing was that the government at the time was seen to be being "tough on public servants" 🙄

Not only that, but the government (FFG, there's no difference, really, and it's always been FFG, since the foundation of the state!) were as clever as usual and got the junior coalition partner to actually do the dirty work. Howlin was so proud to be able to say "Look Mr Watt, see how high I can jump!" as he destroyed years' worth of family-friendly workplace conditions. Destroyed the Labour Party for the next 30 years in the process - if it ever manages to recover it'll be a miracle! - but he had his moment in the sun...

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118982361#Comment_118982361

It is Orwellian. That's not measuring productivity thats measuring time in seat. Only your using tech to do it. Its bad practice.

https://www.ringcentral.com/us/en/blog/5-bad-and-good-ways-to-measure-productivity/

If a person gets their job done in 70% less time in seat, 70% less key strokes they need to be rewarded for it, not punished.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983498#Comment_118983498

I agree WFH is far better than flexi leave for me aswell. But I also accept that Flexi works better for other people.

laoisgem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118994057#Comment_118994057

This but I think there we should be given the option, wfh or flexi. Expecting both is just taking the piss imo