Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622632#Comment_121622632

What, get in there so I can be less productive? Why would you want that?🙄

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622632#Comment_121622632

There's a big difference between being required in the workplace, and being instructed to be there because your boss is a dick / a hopeless manager

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622632#Comment_121622632

WOW ,you pay tax .

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622721#Comment_121622721

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626081#Comment_121626081

There are different types of taxpayers you will know?

Some generate wealth and their taxes produced with the sweat of their labour is what sustains the wages of others like civil servants and unwaged.

Others like civil servants and unwaged just pay taxes on/ with the income derived from those who generate the wealth of the state.

Fairly simple?

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626109#Comment_121626109

Hahahahahahahahah so my taxes are used for different purposes than your taxes? What is the terms for these different types of tax payers?

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626109#Comment_121626109

Such nonsense.

What do your taxes get used for that a PS workers wouldn't.

Pamelabeasley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121622632#Comment_121622632

would hate to have to deal with you as the piper tbh (as a taxpayer) People don’t leave bad jobs, they leave bad managers.

jaffa20

Why do you all entertain trolls? It's the same as on the public pay talks thread. Just block and move on.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626109#Comment_121626109

Yes, your argument is fairly simplistic, all right. Teachers, doctors, nurses, Gardaí, customs officials, roadsweepers, fire crews, the people generating pension payments, the ones guarding our infrastructure from cyber attack, and countless other classes of public servants don't "generate wealth", but by Christ you'd miss us if we were gone!

And you'd miss the €18 billion spent on public procurement annually, generating a fair **** chunk of your "wealth".

And yes, we pay taxes.

🙄

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626109#Comment_121626109

So basically what you are saying is that the work of all public servants is of no value at all.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627877#Comment_121627877

Of course not, many public servants do work of great value for what they are paid from taxation.

But ask yourself, do you generate wealth?

This is obvious - we could fill the country with 100% employment in the public services, but wages would be zero.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628068#Comment_121628068

This is a thread for civil servants to discuss the practical operation of the Blended Working Framework within their Units / Departments.

Not for your personal gripes and grudges against civil servants.

Why are you here derailing the thread with your off topic nonsense?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628156#Comment_121628156

You're quite right of course and who generates wealth is not the issue here. The point is that whether you work in the private or public sectors, if the employer/ company or the boss wants you in the office, then you either go to the office or get another job. That's generally how it works.

There could be many reasons why the employer or boss wants you in. For example, they might figure a particular worker is spending too much time on social media when they are WFH.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628177#Comment_121628177

Again showing your lack of understanding on the topic.

There is a very specific and exhaustive framework on hybrid working within the civil service.

It is not as simple as "if the boss wants you in the office, you either go to the office or get another job."

That may be how it would be operated by the private sector (or small business owners), but not in the Civil Service.

hardybuck

I hope this small business owner continues to enjoy 'generating wealth' in a successful and stable economy. We all know that our economic success started by accident in the 90s, and isn't a product of many years of effective public policy (devised and implemented by public servants) in areas such as education, regulation, taxation etc. Best of luck to you Furze99, I need your taxes to generate my wealth..

Getting the topic back on track, I'd be interested to see how the various different pilots are being measured, and what type of feedback is coming back.

I think there's definitely going to be a need for different types of workspaces to be developed or acquired by the OPW. In my workplace there's very little collaboration spaces or meeting rooms - which is supposed to be one of the main reasons why we go in. We're also finding it a bit awkward doing the video meetings in the open plan, where you have 2-3 people on a call and another handful of people around them trying to work away.

I think the consistency of application is another thing that has always going to be challenging. There's definitely parts of our organisation where people are in less than others, and other local arrangements where certain people are let work remotely for a few weeks at a time - sometimes overseas.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628204#Comment_121628204

I'm sorry but it is really that simple. There is a bottom line.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628216#Comment_121628216

It's really not.

MakersMark

The issue with blended working and the Civil Service is that its further removing accountability.

CS workers never face consequences for terrible service. To allow them to be inefficient from home further encourages ineffectiveness.

Just my opinion as a person who pays an awful of of income tax.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628399#Comment_121628399

I think as someone who also pays an awful lot of income and other types of taxes, I think that type of concern is quite misplaced. It's also not really backed up by any type of evidence.

From my experience there are definitely some slackers out there, but they're definitely in the extreme minority, and it's much the same as you'd see in any sector (I've worked in multiple). The culture has changed and managers will just get rid of people early in probation within their first year if there is any concern regarding their performance or suitability.

Most Civil Servants also aren't in public facing roles providing services, and you wouldn't really have a good sense from the outside looking in what kind of things managers here will be looking for in terms of performance of their teams. There was teething issues during Covid in certain areas like passports etc. where new processes needed to be figured out during lockdowns, but that's all settled down now.

I think maybe one area where the general public might be keeping an eye on is how long the public service can avoid paying additional remuneration for those working in Dublin. Hybrid and remote working is becoming an important release valve for those who would otherwise not be able to live and work in Dublin with the increased costs of living, particularly among junior staff. I think if hybrid or remote was to be restricted we'd start seeing a huge push for a Dublin weighting - like what you'd see in London.

_H80_GHT

A taxpayer you say? That's remarkable. Fair play to you Sir.

Pamelabeasley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628399#Comment_121628399

Do you work in the service yourself or on what basis are you drawing that conclusion from? Everyone pays an awful lot of income tax if they’re in employment, and as in the case of comments from further up in the thread, I genuinely don’t see the relevance of stating the fact 🤷‍♀️

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628068#Comment_121628068

Spare me the Thatcherite bullshit, there is such a thing as society and there is a lot more to wealth than euro and cent.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628177#Comment_121628177

Too much time on social media?

Like, say, a self-employed company owner who has 8,700 posts on boards.ie alone, since April 2021?

Dude, I don't know why I'm bothering to tell you this, but in the public sector, we have plenty of work, deadlines, KPIs to hit, and ways to measure that they are being hit. We're good, thanks. Unfortunately, just as in the private sector, sometimes there will be micromanagers appointed, too caught up in themselves and their need to have control that they'll wreck goodwill, the resulting flexibility (which goes both ways) and productivity just so they can look out of their office every so often to make sure Mary and Joe aren't on facebook or boards.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628216#Comment_121628216

Yes, there's a bottom line. The framework issued by DPER, upon which all Departments and most organisations developed and published their own policies on blended working.

Rogue managers can't cancel an organisation's published policy because they want to come in on Mondays and Thursdays, even though their staff followed the policy, applied for blended working, and had it signed off already by the new rogue manager's boss. "Simple." As some like to say.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628399#Comment_121628399

I also pay an awful lot of income tax.

I've encountered terrible service from the private sector in several different in just the last couple of weeks:

* a company refusing to quote for what I wanted, after doing the research on what would work best for me and my situation, instead telling me they knew better and what I really need was a system way too underspecced for the money they were looking for - then complaining that I'd emailed them when they were on leave(!); two other companies not even bothering to get back to me with quotes.

* a phone company texting me an offer of some extra gigabytes of data for the special offer price of "only" €5 or €10... I'm on an unlimited data plan.

* the same company phoning me to try to persuade me to switch to a more expensive contract that had no more minutes, or data, or speed... just "pay slightly less for a few months, then pay more for the rest of the contract." WTF? Why would I do that? Why would they pay someone to phone me to offer me that?

* several companies' vans, and their workers cars, just parked on a cycle lane, double yellows and a footpath, forcing pedestrians, people with prams and wheelchair users onto the road, because "where else are we supposed to park"

* Eir. I'm not even going to elaborate, I don't need to.

Sorry for the rant, but y'know. Bringing their employers' reputation into disrepute, pissing off customers, losing potential sales... the private sector is usually a hell of a lot worse than the public sector. In my experience and opinion.

YMMV.

Ezeoul

Maybe we should all start or sign off on any posts on this thread with a statement that we are taxpayers from now on.

I don't know about all other Departments, but mine is managed by OGCIO so we have a "Managed Desktop".

We can't even access a personal email account on our work PCs and laptops, let alone browse social media.

(🤑 I am a taxpayer and I pay a large amount of tax 🤑)

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632413#Comment_121632413

You're right, that's an average of about 8 posts a day - very prolific. This is my second today.. But I do note a particular poster here who is clearly in public employment and who is even more prolific and wont to change their name as well.. who posts at all times of the day here.

Ezeoul

Personally, I think it's a bit creepy and stalkerish to follow people around on Boards, keeping notes, and trying to derail threads due to some kind of petty grudge.

Most of us are far too busy for that kind of childish behaviour.

*just my opinion as a taxpayer*

spot555

Hi all

Am considering applying for the 2024 AO positions advertised on Public Jobs - the booklet doesn’t really say but can you WFH for these roles (either full time or say 2/3 days a week)?

I don’t really want to move to Dublin however I would be happy to commute 2/3 days a week if need be

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121635767#Comment_121635767

Everyone in the Civil Service can apply for remote working.

Whatever arrangement would be made for you to WFH would ultimately come down to the policy of the Department you are assigned to, and the suitability of the AO role you are given.

WFH is granted based on the suitability of the role for WFH, not the person doing it.

But in general, 2/3 days WFH appears to be the average for those who request it. You might have an office based training period at first.