Tour de France stage 4: Redon to Fougères (150.4km)

mr spuckler · 29-06-2021 4:16pm

2 out of 4 each for both DQS and AF, bit selfish really.

MPFGLB · 29-06-2021 4:16pm

Well that was some come back and he did it at DQS
Not at any other team

I admire Cav so much ...,he suffered depression and virus and he neve stop fighting

Up there with Rocky !!!!!

Raoul Duke · 29-06-2021 4:17pm

Philipsen didn't get the lead out that Merlier got yesterday, where he and MVDP led Merlier out.

Happy for Cavendish. Always great to see someone win where it means so much to them.

Large bottle small glass · 29-06-2021 4:17pm

He's only two stages off Merckx now.

How many sprint stages before the high mountains?

Master stroke by Lefeverre if he pulls it off

Brian? · 29-06-2021 4:17pm

Doc07 wrote: »

That’s because he’s the best ever. The manoeuvre between the two lads to squeeze in at the end was slick.
Of course I’d love to see Sam there winning instead but Cav is the greatest

The hyperbole. He is not the greatest anything ever.

velo.2010 · 29-06-2021 4:18pm

Sam who?

Lefevre is a bollo8cks, but I can take nothing away from Cavendish. Great win. How many sprint stages left? He could take Merckx record of stage wins.

breezy1985 · 29-06-2021 4:18pm

mossym wrote: »

was anyone expecting anything but an OTT from Carlton on that result

I hate Cavendish and Kirby but I don't mind him going mad about the win.

Its the 5 hours building up to it that drove me nuts

Brian? · 29-06-2021 4:19pm

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

He's only two stages off Merckx now.

How many sprint stages before the high mountains?

Master stroke by Lefeverre if he pulls it off

I wouldn’t bet against him winning 2 more. Without Ewan he’s just about the fastest there.

29-06-2021 4:19pm

He's in green now too.

Raoul Duke · 29-06-2021 4:19pm

Brian? wrote: »

The hyperbole. He is not the greatest anything ever.

He's not the greatest sprinter?

breezy1985 · 29-06-2021 4:20pm

mewso wrote: »

Jaysus England will win the euros now to add salt .

In all seriousness fair play to Cav and as bad as Sam might feel better to look at this and consider how long his career can go. Its lefevere and what he might say that will inevitably annoy me.

VdP winning stage to was the precursor to the Dutch losing to the Czechs that evening so there's hope

Brian? · 29-06-2021 4:20pm

Raoul Duke wrote: »

He's not the greatest sprinter?

He most certainly is not.

MPFGLB · 29-06-2021 4:24pm

I dont like Cavendish...I think he can be a prat , obnoxious , etc

But he is the best sprinter ever in the Tour imo and his attitude and come back deserves so many plaudits

Brian? · 29-06-2021 4:24pm

I’ll amend my answer. In one very narrow discipline he is the greatest. He’s the best ever at winning sprint stages in stage races.

1 monument classic isn’t enough to call him the greatest sprinter ever.

Weepsie · 29-06-2021 4:25pm

Sprinting / points jersey is a different beast to what it used to be. For pure straight line speed and explosiveness over those shorrt bunch finishes, it's hard to argue that he's the best there has been.

He's got classics, a monument, a world champion, stages and points jersey in all 3 GTs and a few olympic track medals. Calling it hyperbole to suggest he's the best ever, is a bigger hyperbole in terms of a reaction to be honest.

Brian? · 29-06-2021 4:26pm

MPFGLB wrote: »

I dont like Cavendish...I think he can be a prat , obnoxious , etc

But he is the best sprinter ever in the Tour imo and his attitude and come back deserves so many plaudits

1 green jersey

Mefistofelino · 29-06-2021 4:27pm

Brian? wrote: »

I’ll amend my answer. In one very narrow discipline he is the greatest. He’s the best ever at winning sprint stages in stage races.

1 monument classic isn’t enough to call him the greatest sprinter ever.

Nope - Cav has 48 stages, same as Petacchi. Cipo has 57

Brian? · 29-06-2021 4:27pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Sprinting / points jersey is a different beast to what it used to be. For pure straight line speed and explosiveness over those shorrt bunch finishes, it's hard to argue that he's the best there has been.

He's got classics, a monument, a world champion, stages and points jersey in all 3 GTs and a few olympic track medals. Calling it hyperbole to suggest he's the best ever, is a bigger hyperbole in terms of a reaction to be honest.

Why are you bringing track medals into it? They’re completely irrelevant to road cycling.

Brian? · 29-06-2021 4:29pm

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Nope - Cav has 48 stages, same as Petacchi. Cipo has 57

True enough. Plus Cipo won more outside the GTs.

And he was much cooler all around.

Petacchi was a monster too. Loved the guy.

CramCycle · 29-06-2021 4:29pm

Pass the salt and pepper, it will take me some time to finish off eating my hat. Fair play to him, I still didn't think he had it until the last few metres but the other lads just gassed themselves. Sam is still far faster but Cav read it perfectly, and once again shows that cycling is an incredibly tactical sport.

Large bottle small glass · 29-06-2021 4:29pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Calling it hyperbole to suggest he's the best ever, is a bigger hyperbole in terms of a reaction to be honest.

I'm delighted he won.

Using "greatest ever" within 5 minutes of a win is never wise, in any sport or field.

Ever is a long time and a long list of immortals to be measuring against

Weepsie · 29-06-2021 4:32pm

Brian? wrote: »

Why are you bringing track medals into it? They’re completely irrelevant to road cycling.

Why are you bringing Monuments into it, and then ignoring classics?

His palmares speaks for itself. He's got an astounding palmares. It's not a hyperbole to suggest he's the best anything. He may not be the best. But it's not hyperbole, as he is certainly among the best.

It's relevant as it shows how good he is across the discipline.

The reaction is a bit jingoistic/xenophobic if you ask me. Not too different to what we'll see in the soccer forum tonight.

That so many were sure he wouldn't be at the end of stages, must really be hurting them he has gone and won one.

I'm not his biggest fan, and never have been, but the people detracting from his achievement are quite simply embarrassing themselves

Weepsie · 29-06-2021 4:34pm

Brian? wrote: »

True enough. Plus Cipo won more outside the GTs.

And he was much cooler all around.

Petacchi was a monster too. Loved the guy.

He's also served 2 suspensions (3 years for doping) in his career. Says a lot

Raoul Duke · 29-06-2021 4:35pm

Raoul Duke wrote: »

Philipsen didn't get the lead out that Merlier got yesterday, where he and MVDP led Merlier out.

Happy for Cavendish. Always great to see someone win where it means so much to them.

Saw the replay. Philipsen got a decent leadout after all. Back to Merlier as plan A for future stages.

Raoul Duke · 29-06-2021 4:39pm

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I'm delighted he won.

Using "greatest ever" within 5 minutes of a win is never wise, in any sport or field.

Ever is a long time and a long list of immortals to be measuring against

To be fair, lots of people said he was the best ever before this race. This win means that he ticks the longevity box in any discussion about the best ever.

CramCycle · 29-06-2021 4:41pm

Weepsie wrote: »

I'm not his biggest fan, and never have been, but the people detracting from his achievement are quite simply embarrassing themselves

Not his biggest fan either (although he seems to have gotten nicer since he appeared to be winding down finishing up 2 or 3 years ago) but he is a great cyclist, and like it or not, that was a great win. Fair enough, some of the current best aren't there today and I certainly wouldn't go as nuts as to call him one of the GOATs but he certainly has to be up there in a countdown. He had a huge advantage today in that despite the media he wasn't really expected to win, most cycling fans wouldn't have picked him and lefevere even gave him the get out of jail free card with all the talk about no prep so if he doesn't get something, who cares. It is a win win for Cav which must be relieving tension wise but as he has shown, still a great man for reading the field, which is still one of his greatest strengths.

MPFGLB · 29-06-2021 4:57pm

Raoul Duke wrote: »

Saw the replay. Philipsen got a decent leadout after all. Back to Merlier as plan A for future stages.

Merlier is leaving Philipsen is not afaik

They want to give the youngster a chance I presume esp as they have reached their goals

I think he did fine for a first chance btw

Brian? · 29-06-2021 5:24pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Why are you bringing Monuments into it, and then ignoring classics?

His palmares speaks for itself. He's got an astounding palmares. It's not a hyperbole to suggest he's the best anything. He may not be the best. But it's not hyperbole, as he is certainly among the best.

It's relevant as it shows how good he is across the discipline.

The reaction is a bit jingoistic/xenophobic if you ask me. Not too different to what we'll see in the soccer forum tonight.

That so many were sure he wouldn't be at the end of stages, must really be hurting them he has gone and won one.

I'm not his biggest fan, and never have been, but the people detracting from his achievement are quite simply embarrassing themselves

I’ll leave it here:

He’s had a very good career. He’s a very good sprinter. I think it’s silly calling him the greatest sprinter ever, because he specialised so much in winning four stages. One 1 MSR and one green jersey. His record in the classics, not just the monuments isn’t great.

He’s great at finishing after being delivered by a sprint train. That takes hard work and dedication. But the fawning over him today was too much for me

G1032 · 29-06-2021 5:58pm

Brian? wrote: »

I’ll leave it here:

He’s had a very good career. He’s a very good sprinter. I think it’s silly calling him the greatest sprinter ever, because he specialised so much in winning four stages. One 1 MSR and one green jersey. His record in the classics, not just the monuments isn’t great.

He’s great at finishing after being delivered by a sprint train. That takes hard work and dedication. But the fawning over him today was too much for me

He was world champion too don't forget..

He has to be considered one of the greatest sprinters ever. No more than in any other sport, there will always be debate about who the greatest is/was.
Cavendish just has to be included in the greatest sprinter ever debate. It'd be silly if he wasn't

griffin100 · 29-06-2021 6:19pm

Brian? wrote: »

I’ll leave it here:

He’s had a very good career. He’s a very good sprinter. I think it’s silly calling him the greatest sprinter ever, because he specialised so much in winning four stages. One 1 MSR and one green jersey. His record in the classics, not just the monuments isn’t great.

He’s great at finishing after being delivered by a sprint train. That takes hard work and dedication. But the fawning over him today was too much for me

That describes Sam equally as well.

Is Cav the greatest sprinter of all time? It's impossible to say who was the greatest. The sport has changed so much in terms of PEDs, bike tech, lead out trains, riders specialising in one discipline, etc over the years that it's very difficult to compare riders from different eras IMHO.

Is he one of the greatest sprinters of all time? Of course he is. You don't win that many grand tours stages without being good. Remember he's also won the points jersey in every GT and was world champion.

He was a very unlikeable character in his early days and was the cause of some serious crashes but he's mellowed with age and become more likeable. It's not his fault Kirby w@nks over him and other British riders. His win today will have done more for his sponsors and team than a Sam win, everyone loves a comeback story.

At least the British public recognised him in making him the BBS SPOTY in 2011; RTE couldn't even get the picture of Sam correct.

Tour de France stage 4: Redon to Fougères (150.4km)

Comments