Mica Redress

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176888#Comment_118176888

I have to first hear a sensible recommendation from you other than the 100%. Anything I have seen you propose yet is something someone in the position these families are in is insulting to tell you the truth.

You say your rural yourself, what's your view on houses in Donegal bigger than the rest of the country seeing that alot of these houses were one off builds in rural areas.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177011#Comment_118177011

You've seen my post above saying that principal private dwellings should be dealt with in a fair and equitable way. It is extremely and I mean extremely telling you chose not to engage with that post considering it was a definite response to you. Yet you responded to every other post after it.

100 percent redress for every property is a cod. You know it's a cod I know it's a cod. It actually harms the families and doesn't help them .

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177039#Comment_118177039

Yes but the fair and equitable way for private dwellings was what you seemed to be fair and equitable not what the families would want. Only cod here is someone thinking they have all the answers when really they don't .sorry if I hurt your feelings by not responding to your post but I don't really keep track.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177098#Comment_118177098

Don't try to move the goal posts here.

You avoided twice me asking you about principal private residences. I don't actually think at this point you have any serious interest in assisting the worst effected families more over getting every single property covered in some bizarre full cover solution regardless of the cost or ownership of said property. Doesn't matter who covers the cost or what other citizens are hit with Levy's.

Transparent.

I'm talking about families. Your playing games with bailouts for investors.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176624#Comment_118176624

They don't though. They deserve a home, I can agree that much - but that doesn't extend to the standard they might be accustomed to.

Rebuilding a 4 bed house for a retired couple and expecting the state to pay for everything is perverse.

Furze99

Haven't followed all the ins & outs of the issue. But it seems to me that an obvious solution that would assist all parties, affected homeowners, state and taxpayer.. would be a loan scheme from the state with nominal or 0% interest rate. This payable back on a long term low level of payments and with final payment made at time of probate following the householders deaths. Something like how the Fair Deal scheme assists with people who need nursing home care, are asset rich but cash poor. Consider the advantages:

• householders would borrow what is needed in each case to make their dwellings safe & habitable. This will vary from property to property and so would the relevant loan they take out.
• there would incentive on the claimants to get good value from their building contractors.
• the state would pony up the initial capital but this would be mostly recovered in time, with the main loss being inflation eroding the value of repayments.
• the system would be scalable without any great loss if more regions have a similar claim about defective building materials.

Everyone is catered for, the householder is protected and can be confident in their new dwellings, the state does it's bit and the general taxpayer is not carrying the can. Win, win.

The only people who might feel aggrieved would be those relatives expecting an inheritance of property on the deaths of their older relatives etc. But the needs of this group are hardly paramount or even relevant at all. The most important thing is to look after the needs of the living.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177143#Comment_118177143

What a post. Congratulations truely perverse post.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177188#Comment_118177188

Perhaps you can tell us why the State i.e. the rest of us should pay for oversized homes for these people?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177125#Comment_118177125

Your talking about what you think families should get not what they need. All the time crying on about what it's going to cost other citizens when I know the only citizen matters to you listermint is yourself. End of.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177218#Comment_118177218

What do you think they need? Why do you think these campaigners cannot live in the same size houses as the rest of us?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177218#Comment_118177218

I know property developers or holiday home owner when I see one.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177174#Comment_118177174

Problem is that many affected families are still paying big mortgages for their crumbling homes.

So by your reckoning, a couple who have still, for example, 200k left to pay on their mortgage, can take another 350k from the government as a loan, and they now owe 550k to repay, and you think this is a good deal for them?

ahusband

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118176583#Comment_118176583

I'm limited to 160 sqM on my several acre rural plot by the county development plan, so no, not every rural county allow extremely large houses depends how responsible the local authority are in setting the planning guidelines I guess.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178455#Comment_118178455

In the case where loans are unaffordable an equity stake should be the option.

This is meant to be about safe homes after all, and not asset values, right?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177218#Comment_118177218

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178607#Comment_118178607

Of course it ain't.

When you try engaging with him about actual families he comes out and attacks you with no basis.

Not tied to reality this 100 percent redress lark.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178945#Comment_118178945

Why would I want to engage with anyone who thinks just because a couple are retired they should not have the same right as someone else to have their home rectified.

Only reality with you is not as much about families getting their houses made safe as more to do with how much it will cost you.

A property developer I'm not and have no holiday homes either, just a normal paye worker who would like to see these families get the help they need.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178455#Comment_118178455

So would you be happy if we took a different approach to affected families who are not paying big mortgages on their PPR, along with owners of affected second/holiday homes?

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178605#Comment_118178605

What county would this be.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177098#Comment_118177098

I would like to have a job that pays me 200k a year and I have to do little work for it.

Those who decide what is fair and equitable won't give me that.

What is fair and equitable has to be fair and equitable for everyone in the country, and that means those who want a free McMansion in Donegal need to be compared to those who are living on the streets in Cork.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177232#Comment_118177232

Because Donegal is different.

I have spoken on these boards before about the Irish culture of entitlement that sometimes sees a handout from everyone else as the solution to their problems, no matter the cost to everyone else. I find it gobsmacking that people want their investments and their holiday homes rebuilt for free when there are people homeless and when there are pensioners whose pension was tied up in bank shares and they lost everything in 2008 and got nothing. And they weren't the only ones.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118179340#Comment_118179340

Where did I say that ?

At what point did I reference any retired couples once ? Can you be clear I'd like to know how to respond to this charge

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118178455#Comment_118178455

Yes - that is not an unreasonable position if it serves to assist the people affected promptly and efficiently. We're talking about long term loans, realisable after death and/or carried on by next generation if suits them.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180193#Comment_118180193

You referenced that I wouldn't engage when you quoted both me and mr musicians post, I made the reference to your buddy mr musician in his post about the retired couple. Please try and keep up.

Anyhow this is where I leave it before some posters totally lose it now mentioning homeless in Cork and €200,000 a year jobs which has nothing to do with this along with his mcmansions jibe.He should get out around rural Ireland more and see for himself some of the large houses in many counties. And fair play to anyone who has worked hard to build such a house.

I will leave there as were so far apart in what we think is fair there will be no agreement on anything.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181275#Comment_118181275

Indeed, fair play to anyone who has built such a house. The problem is that these houses are not fit for purpose so a new house needs to be built. What has come before should have no bearing on the aid given by the government as the aim is safe homes, not financial compensation.

Indeed if it was the case that some of the homes that are defective were overcrowded, then perhaps larger ones should be built, but where they are underutilised, smaller ones should be the offer. Needs, not wants.

And you're not engaging. You're not explaining why the State i.e. the taxpayer needs to build such large houses for these people, when it builds smaller ones for everyone else. You're not explaining why equity swaps are considered unfair.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181275#Comment_118181275

You can leave it where you like.

You recognised that you made a mistake and I never made the comment. Yet you made no effort to retract your statement.

Typical of the attitude across in the Donegal forum where bluster and lies are the order of the day. Making stuff up that posters never said and twisting words.

It's this meally mouthed fakery that will buy you no favours with taxpayers picking up the tabs in a blanket format for everyone.

No reality.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181888#Comment_118181888

The unqualified bluster of mica advocates doesn't withstand scrutiny. Within reason, they should have an easy sell. Everyone can empathise with the horrific prospect of finding a massive structural fault in your house. It's truly the stuff of nightmares.

But what kills it is the unreasonable demand for 100% for everyone, everytime. Asking for a blank cheque, and then ending the demand for a blank cheque with a meaningless statement "I'm not looking for a blank cheque". Complaining about the existing scheme requiring assessments to be made, as if a scheme should just rebuild any house in Donegal on demand.

Folk express fears of houses collapsing on top of them; if someone genuinely had that fear, would they be standing on ceremony for 100% redress for holiday homes? Or would they be accepting of any reasonable proposal that removes that threat, even if it means living in a house with no resale value? Or a smaller, but stable, house?

Its actually unusual to see visible signs of resistance to this kind of campaign. Yet, the message is clearly out there. Absolutely, help everyone in need of housing. Not just people in one particular set of circumstances.

salonfire

The mica protesters look like to have set a precedent in disruptive protests in Dublin. The farmers and the hauliers following suit.

The government will need to handle the issues carefully or Dublin will be blocked every other week.

MrMusician18

This is going to cabinet on Tuesday next seemingly. The protesters have threatened a "class action" legal case if the proposal isn't to their satisfaction.

I wonder will there be anything at all in it for investment properties and holiday homes.

MrMusician18

The memo to cabinet has been leaked (shocked pickachu face) and the outline of the revised scheme is emerging.

*A cap of €420k per household for 100% of works

*Holiday homes excluded

*Some rental homes included

*A construction industry levy to pay for this

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118237849#Comment_118237849

Mr Doherty not happy it seems. Whats his origin story has he investment properties or rentals?

https://www.thejournal.ie/mica-redress-scheme-5614862-Nov2021/