Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

bear1

I'd love to know how much our government handed local businesses in the North due to their loose restrictions and our tight ones?
We must have spent a fortune up there.

beaz2018

bear1 wrote: »

I'd love to know how much our government handed local businesses in the North due to their loose restrictions and our tight ones?
We must have spent a fortune up there.

its bloody dear up there too these days. Paid 9pounds for a bowl of soup a few weeks ago. They are cashing in on the the souths savings.

leahyl

gozunda wrote: »

Of course it's well know those events were held last year in the UK. It was all over the news and social media. Don't pretend otherwise.

And no incorrect. That discussion why pods were being used and point of same.

But hey if you would like to have your own discussion there - please feel free.

Some of us actually work and have lives to try and get on with and don’t see every single Covid related news report. Get over yourself, seriously - you knew what you were doing there. You quoted my post which wasn’t “discussing why pods were being used” - I was just questioning it and saying how ridiculous I thought it was and your response was to post a picture of a gig in the UK from nearly a year ago knowing that I would think it was the same over there - my response to your post should have told you that - you had every opportunity to say “of course that was in August 2020” or maybe not post it at all, as it’s completely irrelevant; s**t stirrer, nothing else. Won’t be responding to you anymore.

beaz2018

beaz2018 wrote: »

so u want to exist with restrictions forever? Because there will always be virus deaths.

Masks and social distancing are very minor things to do for the sake of preventing further lockdowns.

gozunda

Lumen wrote: »

When the UK re-opened on 17 May they had 54%/30% of the total population with one dose/fully vaccinated.

Tomorrow, on our originally scheduled re-opening date, we'll be at around 52%/38%, and with slightly stronger protection from the mRNA vaccines.

Even if we do see the kind of Delta-driven growth rates that Portugal have seen (doubling every 2 weeks) we're 18 days behind their case curve which is enough to administer almost another million doses (+25% more protection).

Thing is, whilst indoor reopening does introduce risk, surely the position of Portugal as a holiday destination has to be factored in. They re-opened for international tourists in late May, whereas during these two lost weeks we wouldn't have been operating the EU covid cert scheme, so it's not like there would be an influx of hard-partying tourists before the 19th anyway.

The only upside to this mess is that with the consideration of antigen testing the govt seem to have finally started to break free of NPHET advice.

Of interest - countries which have very high levels of traffic with the UK include Portugal and Ireland now have some of the highest rates of Delta infection in the EU. Here because of our open border and common travel area and Portugal because they've were amongst the fist major holiday destinations open to UK holidaymakers.

Lumen

gozunda wrote: »

Of interest - countries which have very high levels of traffic with the UK include Portugal, Spain and Ireland now have some of the highest rates of Delta infection in the EU. Here because of our open border and common travel area and Spain and Portugal because they've were amongst the fist major holiday destinations open to UK holidaymakers.

Germany has over 50% delta (report from 5 days ago) and yet their case numbers are low and flattish, with indoor dining open (to people with a covid pass).

Sensible restrictions are more important than variant %, not least because people just ignore restrictions that are not sensible.

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

Masks and social distancing are very minor things to do for the sake of preventing further lockdowns.

No thanks, and I don't buy the reasoning that our alternative is ongoing lockdowns, regardless of Tony and NPHET.

People need to start taking personal responsibility for their own circumstances again. If you're at risk from Covid you're probably at risk from a host of other things as well that you should be taking precautions against.

For the overwhelming majority of people in this country, Covid has been proven to be little or no risk to them, and many don't even realise they have/had it unless they're told by a test (which in itself uses questionable metrics to determine that).

Just as how we don't lock down for the flu, or the measles or any other infectious disease, we cannot keep expecting the majority of people to keep behaving as though there's a deadly killer virus waiting to strike us down, or to treat everyone we come in contact with as potential plague carriers, or isolating ourselves from everyday normal human interaction.

Covid 19 has become the apex of a trend over the past decade to infantilise the population, abdicate personal responsibility, and to be led by hysteria and agenda-driven politics on social media.

It has to end and we all need to move on.

gozunda

leahyl wrote: »

Some of us actually work and have lives to try and get on with and don’t see every single Covid related news report. Get over yourself, seriously - you knew what you were doing there. You quoted my post which wasn’t “discussing why pods were being used” - I was just questioning it and saying how ridiculous I thought it was and your response was to post a picture of a gig in the UK from nearly a year ago knowing that I would think it was the same over there - my response to your post should have told you that - you had every opportunity to say “of course that was in August 2020” or maybe not post it at all, as it’s completely irrelevant; s**t stirrer, nothing else. Won’t be responding to you anymore.

Lol. Ok let's look at that ...

This was your comment

leahyl wrote:

..struggling at this point to understand how an outdoor gig with 8k people as a “test” event has people separated into pods of 6 and they have to wear masks??? What is the point??? ...

And that's exactly what I replied to viz

"gozunda wrote:

Afaik you only had to wear masks on the way in etc. Once there - they weren’t mandatory.....As to pods - yeah they look mad - that said the UK ones looked even madder. This was what social distanced enclosures at the Virgin Money Unity Arena in Newcastle upon Tyne looked like.

So yes that discussion was "why pods were being used and point of same" - hence the photo of the mad ones used in the UK at thst concert.

But yes it remains those UK test gigs were huge headlines all over the media here and the UK last year. But oddly enough no one here knows that. If you genuinely didn't fair enough.

And no matter. I'll leave you at it ....

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

Masks and social distancing are very minor things to do for the sake of preventing further lockdowns.

So that's our choice, restrictions or lockdowns? Not very appealing I have to say. And we did social distancing and masks last year and still ended up in severe lockdown anyway.

We need to have the conversation of what level of risk is acceptable. At what point do we start to go back to normal? Other countries are clearly having this conversation but not here. Just an endless cycle of threats about rising case numbers, restrictions and lockdowns.

_Kaiser_

namloc1980 wrote: »

So that's our choice, restrictions or lockdowns? Not very appealing I have to say. And we did social distancing and masks last year and still ended up in severe lockdown anyway.

The irony of course is that this time last year, with no masks, no vaccines, and even less restrictions, and at a time when we knew less about the virus or its effects, we were actually better off than we are now

gozunda

Lumen wrote: »

Germany has over 50% delta (report from 5 days ago) and yet their case numbers are low and flattish, with indoor dining open (to people with a covid pass).

Sensible restrictions are more important than variant %, not least because people just ignore restrictions that are not sensible.

Yeah I saw Germany's figures. Thing is looking at social media there seems to be quite a bit of unhappiness with their restrictions as they are

Actually just saw a news report which says Spain is claiming it has low levels of Delta.

https://finance.yahoo.com/video/delta-variant-levels-low-spain-182513982.html

But they are bringing in new travel restrictions to stop the spread

Portugal, Spain and Germany have issued new travel restrictions in a bid to limit the spread of the more contagious Delta coronavirus variant, which was first detected in India.

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/28/portugal-germany-tighten-travel-restrictions-to-curb-delta-variant-spread

Interesting article on the spread of Delta in Portugal. Looks like they're pointing the finger at the UK

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/06/23/portugal-acknowledges-it-could-have-prevented-spread-of-delta-covid-19-variant

bear1

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The irony of course is that this time last year, with no masks, no vaccines, and even less restrictions, and at a time when we knew less about the virus or its effects, we were actually better off than we are now

I remember coming from Poland to Ireland to enjoy the freedom of no masks and being able to go to a restaurant etc.
And of course no moronic PCR.
Now... The complete opposite.
It's impressive really

bear1

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah I saw Germany's figures. Thing is looking at social media there seems to be quite a bit of unhappiness with their restrictions as they are

Actually just saw a new report which says Spain is claiming it has low levels of Delta.
But they are bringing in new travel restrictions to stop the spread

What report?
Only one I saw was Brazil and South Africa.

Thespoofer

Just want to say ( partly unrelated to thread ) that I'm now cheering for England in the Euros.

They've showed up this country in terms of approach to opening up restrictions and with their football.

That is all.

growleaves

Important update from RTE:

_Kaiser_

Thespoofer wrote: »

Just want to say ( partly unrelated to thread ) that I'm now cheering for England in the Euros.

They've showed up this country in terms of approach to opening up restrictions and with their football.

That is all.

I'm hoping for an England v Italy final myself, and while I think the Italians will make it tough, I would like to see England do it.

Red Silurian

Thespoofer wrote: »

Just want to say ( partly unrelated to thread ) that I'm now cheering for England in the Euros.

They've showed up this country in terms of approach to opening up restrictions and with their football.

That is all.

A bit off topic but most of the country supports premier league teams so yeah

As for England's covid response, it has been consistently lacking, from their health Secretary advising a herd immunity approach last March to their idiotic PM shaking hands with covid patients, not supplying the nhs with enough PPE, reopening too early last May, resisting lockdown despite a new variant that was discovered in September, Christmas (need I say more) and then most recently using the term "data not dates" for their reopening plan, then proceeding to list out some dates...

Of course I should mention the British govt played a blinder on the vaccinating rollout, probably the only thing they've done right and on time in the last 16 months

Lumen

Red Silurian wrote: »

A bit off topic but most of the country supports premier league teams so yeah

As for England's covid response, it has been consistently lacking, from their health Secretary advising a herd immunity approach last March to their idiotic PM shaking hands with covid patients, not supplying the nhs with enough PPE, reopening too early last May, resisting lockdown despite a new variant that was discovered in September, Christmas (need I say more) and then most recently using the term "data not dates" for their reopening plan, then proceeding to list out some dates...

Of course I should mention the British govt played a blinder on the vaccinating rollout, probably the only thing they've done right and on time in the last 16 months

Their contact tracing apps seem to be finally working, too. Lots of people getting "pinged" after close contact in pubs detected.

I uninstalled the Irish one a few weeks ago.

AlekSmart

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I wouldn’t be qualified to question NPHETs advice compared with the Uk or some random Euro country advice

Just don’t have the level of expertise to do that

Some posters clearly feel they know better.

Fair play to yee, ye are being wasted posting on here yiz should be in govt buildings advising cabinet some of you !

I certainly Wouldn’t presume to know all the factors for NPHETs recommendations in terms of ireland specific modelling

Just a sec.....You are absolutely Correct in referencing Government Buildings !

YOU as a citizen of this State,assuming you are an adult who's mental function is not in any way impeded,are quite the opposite,You are in fact amongst the only group legally qualified to question the "advice" provided by the expert group.

As a Voter,you can direct your questions directly to this Expert Group via your Local Party representative,or your TD to the relevant MINISTER or TAOISEACH,who are then legally required to act democratically and give due consideration to the wishes of the electorate.....that is how Democracy works.

As other posters have pointed out,NPHET is a team,the members of which have been selected,presumably by a set-process.
This means that there are other "Professionals" who have NOT been selected for membership,and who's views which may be contrarian,are not taken into consideration.

To decry other people,who DO seek greater transparency and Accountability from this "Team" is denying reality and democracy in the one sentence.

I can appreciate your disdain for people who won't "Do what they're Told",but these may the the same people who'se actions eventually lead to a better future for YOU.

AlekSmart

Deleted User wrote: »

Na na na na na na na....LEADER!!!!

Holy God...I wonder if the relevant Minister even paused for thought before approving that display ?

It would not look out of place at a German Gig of the 1930's

Evidence of a deep dysfunction at this Cabinet table ? :mad:

gozunda

Red Silurian wrote: »

A bit off topic but most of the country supports premier league teams so yeah

As for England's covid response, it has been consistently lacking, from their health Secretary advising a herd immunity approach last March to their idiotic PM shaking hands with covid patients, not supplying the nhs with enough PPE, reopening too early last May, resisting lockdown despite a new variant that was discovered in September, Christmas (need I say more) and then most recently using the term "data not dates" for their reopening plan, then proceeding to list out some dates...

Of course I should mention the British govt played a blinder on the vaccinating rollout, probably the only thing they've done right and on time in the last 16 months

New health minister there is getting a trashing on social media atm

https://mobile.twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1411588996979900416

Fandymo

FileNotFound wrote: »

Well the reality is we do still have a virus - the pubs won't open

Going on mass protests when we should keep basic distancing is a thing only a numpty could agree with.

I say the above with the expectation that restrictions end once we have vaccinated, but I do wonder will they pull the booster shot argument saying we need time to roll these out to the first vaccinated etc.

2 wrongs won't make a right - anyone planning protesting en masse is an eejit in my opinion..

Yes, we’ll see massive spike like happened with the BLM March...........oh wait, there was none

Or the crowds on St Stephens Green.........again none.

Or the crowds on Dame Street...........none again


Or the crowds on top of each other on South William Street.............wait, no spikes again??

Fandymo

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just in case anyone suspects I’m some sort of Undercover NPHET Mole sorry to break it to you but a travelling Salesman and stockist for convenience stores here ! Nothing more exciting than that

I don’t feel we are overly deferential as a nation to NPHET.

More - NPHET have the expertise and qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.

I would also strenuously say we should not take any advice as if from a stone tablet given to Moses

How many epidemiologists/virologists have NPHET got? Have they even got anyone qualified in statistical analysis for their modelling??

Y’know, the literal “qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.”

Furze99

The reason there can’t be any great relaxation of restrictions at the moment is because the government made poor decisions as regards vaccinating the 60s cohort of the general population. If they had used mRNA vaccines on this group, they’d all be fully vaccinated weeks ago as well as a substantial portion of the 50s. In this case, all the original ‘most at risk’ groups would be covered and therefore far less risk from health & political pov. Using AstraZeneca with its planned 3 month gap between doses and with known supply issues was just a bad decision. With costly consequences.

Lumen

Fandymo wrote: »

How many epidemiologists/virologists have NPHET got? Have they even got anyone qualified in statistical analysis for their modelling??

Y’know, the literal “qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.”

Like the consultant virologist who is the chair of NPHET?

DYOR

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Public_Health_Emergency_Team_(2020)

seamus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

UK plans are interesting. Feeling is it will come back to haunt them.

The decision to drop masks is a political one. It's a symbolic gesture rather than one driven by best interests.

Masks, hand washing and capacity limits are the easiest and lowest-cost things you can do. Ditching them makes no sense unless you have driven cases numbers into the ground and achieved herd immunity.

If the UK are not back into some form of restrictions by mid-Autumn, I'll be very surprised.

_Kaiser_

seamus wrote: »

The decision to drop masks is a political one. It's a symbolic gesture rather than one driven by best interests.

Masks, hand washing and capacity limits are the easiest and lowest-cost things you can do. Ditching them makes no sense unless you have driven cases numbers into the ground and achieved herd immunity.

If the UK are not back into some form of restrictions by mid-Autumn, I'll be very surprised.

We had no masks this time last year.. cases were still in the ground.

You could in fact say that when masks were introduced last year, the cases went up!

It's why cases is - and always has been such a poor metric of performance - it's the OUTCOME of those cases that tells you how you're faring against the virus.

gozunda

Fandymo wrote: »

How many epidemiologists/virologists have NPHET got? Have they even got anyone qualified in statistical analysis for their modelling??

Y’know, the literal “qualifications desperately required for the management of the pandemic.”

This lot do?

https://www.ucd.ie/research/covid19response/news/irishepidemiologicalmodellingadvisorygrouptonphet/

Fandymo

leahyl wrote: »

There must be something we don’t know?? I’m really struggling at this point to understand how an outdoor gig with 8k people as a “test” event has people separated into pods of 6 and they have to wear masks??? What is the point??? I have followed restrictions for the past year and half but when we’re getting to the point of so many people being vaccinated but we still have to “hold on” for another few weeks etc….it’s just….I’m wrecked from it all. Even with restaurants open outdoors and all this, still doesn’t change that we are still expected to social distance and wear masks in crowded areas - it’s just not normal life yet. My anxiety is through the roof again this last week and I got the first dose of the vaccine - I should be delighted but it’s like the vaccines aren’t worth a damn at the moment! (I am happy that I got the vaccine though but everything else happening this week has taken away from it, that’s all :-P)

Outdoor gig has 3500 people at it.

83,200 seater Croke Park had 8000.

Jimi H

Was listening to Paul Reid this morning. He was saying that although only 16 are in ICU for Covid, there were very few ICU beds available. I think he said 230 (or possibly 260 can’t remember) ICU beds were occupied at the moment and the hospitals were very busy. Anyway, by the sound of it we have very little capacity to take on even a small increase in hospitality rate. We’ve had so many years of a poorly run health service and it’s come back to bite.