Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

DarkJager21

Micky 32 wrote: »

“”Taoiseach Micheál Martin has said that NPHET is not going to change its advice on indoor hospitality and the challenge is for the Government and the sector to operationalise the advice.””

Regarding the digital cert :

“Asked if the Government was committed to implementing the Covid-19 Digital Certificate by 19 July, Micheál Martin said: "We're on track".

Yeah I think it's time the government start making DECISIONS instead of allowing an "advisory group" to dictate them. What are they planning to do when NPHET gets jettisoned in to eternal ridicule with their bull**** projections when they don't come off? How can they face the public with a straight face and say they are following advice from a crowd of charlatans and spoofers?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Ah! The lockdown to avoid lockdown method! I see.

Personally I call it moderate restrictions to avoid lockdown.

RGS

Micky 32 wrote: »

“”Taoiseach Micheál Martin has said that NPHET is not going to change its advice on indoor hospitality and the challenge is for the Government and the sector to operationalise the advice.””

Regarding the digital cert :

“Asked if the Government was committed to implementing the Covid-19 Digital Certificate by 19 July, Micheál Martin said: "We're on track".

So NPHET wont change their advise that does not mean the government have to accept it.


JUST GROW A PAIR MM.


I forgot MM has already stated he wont deviate from NPHET,which by any reading allows NPHET to impose any restriction they want. We really live in a crazy country where the medics control the government.

ACitizenErased

Meeting with representatives from hospitality industry just finished. Meeting again on Thursday to finalise plan which will then go for government approval.

So we'll find out Thursday what the story is.

celt262

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Meeting with representatives from hospitality industry just finished. Meeting again on Thursday to finalise plan which will then go for government approval.

So we'll find out Thursday what the story is.

Waste of time with no NPHET involvement at this stage i would imagine.

Stormyteacup

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Yeah I think it's time the government start making DECISIONS instead of allowing an "advisory group" to dictate them. What are they planning to do when NPHET gets jettisoned in to eternal ridicule with their bull**** projections when they don't come off? How can they face the public with a straight face and say they are following advice from a crowd of charlatans and spoofers?

But haven’t you been paying attention? The spoofers can model pretty much anything you can dream up. There will be no jettisoning because the projections won’t manifest for the sole reason indoor dining did not open. Otherwise could have been very bad. Very. Christmas times ten. NPHET saves the country again. Phew.

Gearoid88

charlie14 wrote: »

I was in Galway city last week for the first time in over a month, and from what I saw there appeared to be many more younger people wearing face masks in the streets than previously.
Not exactly an in depth study, but from what I saw there certainly appeared to be more of the unvaccinated cohort now wearing them.

Doesn't really bother me much either way but it's interesting that the elderly are now the ones going maskless the very people we were locked down to save. Same people probably losing the head at ones not wearing masks just a few months back.

DarkJager21

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But haven’t you been paying attention? The spoofers can model pretty much anything you can dream up. There will be no jettisoning because the projections won’t manifest for the sole reason indoor dining did not open. Otherwise could have been very bad. Very. Christmas times ten. NPHET saves the country again. Phew.

And that's a joke in itself, they can't claim they saved anything by keeping indoor dining closed, people are meeting indoors regardless at this stage. I'd say we can nearly guarantee that house parties have exploded in popularity at this point and who could blame them - people aren't going to sit around waiting for ****ing Tony Holohan to say it's ok to go back to normal. He's already lost the youth of the country, why would or should they give a **** about it or him at this point?

Russman

RGS wrote: »

So NPHET wont change their advise that does not mean the government have to accept it.

JUST GROW A PAIR MM.
.

But any politician almost anywhere in the world that was to tell the medics where to stick their advice, would be toast if it ever came back to haunt them.

Hello Moto GP

DarkJager21 wrote: »

And that's a joke in itself, they can't claim they saved anything by keeping indoor dining closed, people are meeting indoors regardless at this stage. I'd say we can nearly guarantee that house parties have exploded in popularity at this point and who could blame them - people aren't going to sit around waiting for ****ing Tony Holohan to say it's ok to go back to normal. He's already lost the youth of the country, why would or should they give a **** about it or him at this point?

House parties were happening for the last 18 months.

Young people weren't go to put up with that nonsense and who could blame them.

Tenzor07

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Meeting with representatives from hospitality industry just finished. Meeting again on Thursday to finalise plan which will then go for government approval.

Don't you mean: "Meeting again on Thursday to finalise plan which will then go for approval to Holohan"

Hello Moto GP

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Don't you mean: "Meeting again on Thursday to finalise plan which will then go for approval by Holohan"

I think now Tony Holohan and Martin are going to try to come up with some sort of a plan to keep hospitality closed until the schools are back for a few months or at least till all the over 18's are vaccinated.

The virus loves alcohol don't you are do something mad like they have to be closed by 7PM when food generally finishes up.

Tchaikovsky

If you're fully vaccinated and/or you've had the virus already, why do you need to go around wearing a mask, particularly outdoors? Am I missing something?

Tenzor07

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But haven’t you been paying attention? The spoofers can model pretty much anything you can dream up. There will be no jettisoning because the projections won’t manifest for the sole reason indoor dining did not open. Otherwise could have been very bad. Very. Christmas times ten. NPHET saves the country again. Phew.

Sad that we have one of the most expensive Governments in Europe with the highest level of advisors and yet none of them realise the modelling that Npeht came up with was just a possible scenario and not what was actually going to happen..

Like others have said, the people are way ahead of the restrictions and if Holohan wants more then prepare for a full lockdown as we had back in early 2020...

Tenzor07

Hello Moto GP wrote: »

I think now Tony Holohan and Martin are going to try to come up with some sort of a plan to keep hospitality closed until the schools are back for a few months or at least till all the over 18's are vaccinated..

Nah, you're wrong there... Holohan will keep Pubs/clubs/restaurants closed indefinitely... the trade is finished in Ireland, along with live music unless audiences are in sheep pens...

And the reason? The "Omicron Variant" or suchlike..

charlie14

Gearoid88 wrote: »

Doesn't really bother me much either way but it's interesting that the elderly are now the ones going maskless the very people we were locked down to save. Same people probably losing the head at ones not wearing masks just a few months back.

I haven`t noticed any difference in the numbers of elderly going without masks in crowded areas etc. tbh.
What struck me was the number of younger people, (the vast majority of which I imagine are either unvaccinated or have just received one dose), now wearing them on the streets compared to previously.
As I said, just what I saw in Galway city and not exactly an in depth study, but I found it a noticeable difference from a month previously

Vicxas

Vicxas wrote: »

Guarantee you it'll be September before they're open

Ireland will be back in hard lockdown from September 27

DarkJager21

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sad that we have one of the most expensive Governments in Europe with the highest level of advisors and yet none of them realise the modelling that Npeht came up with was just a possible scenario and not what was actually going to happen..

Like others have said, the people are way ahead of the restrictions and if Holohan wants more then prepare for a full lockdown as we had back in early 2020...

I don't think even the government are stupid enough to even entertain ideas of another lockdown. There's 2 showstoppers that will immediately surface if there were even whispers of that:

1) Mass civil disobedience/potential riots - well deserved outcome if they even suggest such a course of action but highly unlikely given how spineless the majority of the public appear to be. "Fighting Irish" my hole.

2) The magic money tree paying for all of Tonys desires for a teetotal and joyless society withers and dies - this is the most likely scenario that will bring an end to NPHET and their influence.

Hello Moto GP

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Nah, you're wrong there... Holohan will keep Pubs/clubs/restaurants closed indefinitely... the trade is finished in Ireland, along with live music unless audiences are in sheep pens...

And the reason? The "Omicron Variant" or suchlike..

He really is the most hated man in Ireland right about now.

FileNotFound

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Nah, you're wrong there... Holohan will keep Pubs/clubs/restaurants closed indefinitely... the trade is finished in Ireland, along with live music unless audiences are in sheep pens...

And the reason? The "Omicron Variant" or suchlike..

As much as it sounds far stretched - one has to consider the reality that we will not open until late August Spetmeber.

This coinciding with Uni/School return will result in case surge.

Then we reclose some sectors due to not understanding opening all at once does this.

Then we hit xmas and the hospitals already under strain from the usual xmas doses get a extra dose of covid while immune systems are low and we start wondering where to go.

I mean if you cannot open with less than 100 cases in hospital and 70% of the adult population at least half vaccinated in mid summer it begs the question when will they deem it ok.


Mind you I expect the Uk to plug ahead and show we made a mistake delaying, one that MM's party will pay for at the next election.

FileNotFound

DarkJager21 wrote: »

I don't think even the government are stupid enough to even entertain ideas of another lockdown. There's 2 showstoppers that will immediately surface if there were even whispers of that:

1) Mass civil disobedience/potential riots - well deserved outcome if they even suggest such a course of action but highly unlikely given how spineless the majority of the public appear to be. "Fighting Irish" my hole.

2) The magic money tree paying for all of Tonys desires for a teetotal and joyless society withers and dies - this is the most likely scenario that will bring an end to NPHET and their influence.

I wouldn't expect either, they can still borrow - all they do is damage the coming years where we may have used this for better and leave us taxed to the hilt to pay it off.

Also once you use keeping other things open people will generally swallow most things

Hello Moto GP

FileNotFound wrote: »

As much as it sounds far stretched - one has to consider the reality that we will not open until late August Spetmeber.

This coinciding with Uni/School return will result in case surge.

Then we reclose some sectors due to not understanding opening all at once does this.

Then we hit xmas and the hospitals already under strain from the usual xmas doses get a extra dose of covid while immune systems are low and we start wondering where to go.

I mean if you cannot open with less than 100 cases in hospital and 70% of the adult population at least half vaccinated in mid summer it begs the question when will they deem it ok.


Mind you I expect the Uk to plug ahead and show we made a mistake delaying, one that MM's party will pay for at the next election.

But are they going to alter the numbers this time around again to community transition when the schools were clearly driving up the numbers and people believing on this thread that you can't get Covid in schools.

MOH

seamus wrote: »

The reopening of indoor dining last Summer, led directly to the surge in cases that required us to re-impose restrictions again in early October.

There you go again perpetuating the same lie. No, it didn't.

I can't be bother looking up the exact dates yet again, but:
Indoor hospitality opened somewhere around June 28th, so go back to a week before that.
At that point the positive rate over the previous 7 days was 0.6%.
(last column in the linked stats)

A month later, that had increased to a whopping .... 0.3%.
Oh wait, the percentage of positive tests actually halved during the first month hospitality was open.

It spiked to 1.8% over the August bank holiday then started steadily decreasing again. Which is an odd thing to see if we're in a runaway surge caused by hospitality.

It made it back down to 1.2%, then schools opened.
A month after schools opened it was 2.9% and kept on going up until we went back into lockdown.

So:
indoor hospitality - rate continues on downward trend, briefly spikes for bank holiday, resumes downward trend
schools - rate doubles in three weeks, keeps going until just before level 5 introduced.

There's only one of those two that "led directly to the surge in cases". And it wasn't indoor dining.

Responder XY

Hello Moto GP wrote: »

But are they going to alter the numbers this time around again to community transition when the schools were clearly driving up the numbers and people believing on this thread that you can't get Covid in schools.

Why do people keep saying this? Nobody believes you can't get Covid in schools. But obviously it's a place where risks can be mitigated to the point where it's safe enough to keep them open. When they re-opened they had no impact on the downward trend earlier this year.

Quite aside from the obvious harm to the kids' development with keeping them closed, the fact that U-18s don't really get bad Covid should be enough reason to not close them again.

FileNotFound

Hello Moto GP wrote: »

But are they going to alter the numbers this time around again to community transition when the schools were clearly driving up the numbers and people believing on this thread that you can't get Covid in schools.

I assume it won't be explained at all so people can make up their own versions.
We don't get many good specifics from NPHET or Gov these days.

Just the absolute worst case scenarios on models they admit aren't well put together.

As someone who has followed the rules to a T and then some its sad to see.

Tenzor07

DarkJager21 wrote: »

I don't think even the government are stupid enough to even entertain ideas of another lockdown. There's 2 showstoppers that will immediately surface if there were even whispers of that:
1) Mass civil disobedience/potential riots - well deserved outcome if they even suggest such a course of action but highly unlikely given how spineless the majority of the public appear to be. "Fighting Irish" my hole.
2) The magic money tree paying for all of Tonys desires for a teetotal and joyless society withers and dies - this is the most likely scenario that will bring an end to NPHET and their influence.

I think you're wrong on point 1, the Irish populace had supported the rule of the British (only a small group of unsupported rebels didn't), the rule of De Valera and his idealised rural/agricultural society, and the catholic church running most of the country, all without much protest...

300 people showed up at an Anti-lockdown march and were called "Anti-vaxx'ers, TinFoil hat brigade and left wing nutjobs"

Have been a number of very civil protests at the Dail but not a hint of trouble, of which the Gardai would crush mercilessly anyways..

So more lockdowns are coming and that's that.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

If you're fully vaccinated and/or you've had the virus already, why do you need to go around wearing a mask, particularly outdoors? Am I missing something?

Our of respect for others.

There multiple types of protection from the vaccine.

1. You are completely protected and can't get the virus.
2. You will still get an infection but will be protected from the vast majority of symptoms.

Most vaccines give a significant amount of the first protection and a degree of the second.

That is to say that there's a reasonable chance you can catch an infection and transmit it to others. If they are vaccinated they will have their own protection (both from infection and from symptoms) but unvaccinated people will not.

FileNotFound

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

If you're fully vaccinated and/or you've had the virus already, why do you need to go around wearing a mask, particularly outdoors? Am I missing something?

Vaccine and immunity give you just that - Immunity.

Then for this to be useful you actually have to get covid again and it will reproduce in your body before your body reacts

Depending on the person the body can react fast - never know you had it. Or react slow and you can become symptomatic (or more accurately transmissible).

Either way you still get covid again and again. Immunity is not a magical cloak

Tchaikovsky

I suppose the question is then, when or where does it end for social distancing and mask wearing?

Leftwaffe

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

I suppose the question is then, when or where does it end for social distancing and mask wearing?

Here it won’t end for another year or two. It will be abandoned all across the Europe long before it’s gone here.