Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

rob316 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrishTimesWorld/status/1411999565297819655?s=20

Look at this rubbish headline. If you actually read the article then you'll learn the following.

-tested 40 hours before the event
- tests weren't supervised so were naturally tampered with and certs were screenshot and shared around
- certs were given out straight after vaccination as opposed to the recommended 2 weeks

This is the sort of crap that NPHET will use as an example against the use of anti gen testing and the "dangers" still there after vaccination.

The headline should be "Dutch nightclub ****s up test event"

Ah so not just Ireland some believe ****s up things to do with covid? That a new one alright ...

Hurrache

Dempo1 wrote: »

Quite a move by Boris today, apparently he's no up to date data, he's saying possibly 50,000 cases a day by the 19th July and whilst I can understand the need for restrictions being lifted, the facemask decision quite a move. I could be wrong but I think he might have gone too far (just a humble opinion, not biting off of heads please)

There's 2 polls today, one a YouGov and some other one, they YouGov have something like 76% in disgareement with his move to have no requirement for masks indoors and on public transport, his scientific advisor wasn't too enthusiastic about it either when questioned.

Dempo1

Hurrache wrote: »

There's 2 polls today, one a YouGov and some other one, they YouGov have something like 76% in disgareement with his move to have no requirement for masks indoors and on public transport, his scientific advisor wasn't too enthusiastic about it either when questioned.

I didn't see his press conference but on captions after it, I didn't see the usual medical experts either side of him.

I think a total removal of mask requirements, particularly public transport etc might not have been wise, I know vacinne roll out successfull but cases really high in the UK

Storm 10

Dempo1 wrote: »

I didn't see his press conference but on captions after it, I didn't see the usual medical experts either side of him.

I think a total removal of mask requirements, particularly public transport etc might not have been wise, I know vacinne roll out successfull but cases really high in the UK

They were there on either side of him at the press conference

Dempo1

Storm 10 wrote: »

They were there on either side of him at the press conference

Apologies, I only saw some captions afterwards

Hurrache

Del Griffith wrote: »

Fair play to Boris, enough is enough, vaccines rolled out so getting the show on the road.

Can only hope the Brits colonise us again. Failing that I'd take direct rule from Brussels.

Anything over the spineless gutless crowd we have now, only thing worse I can think of is the opposition.

Geography lesson required by you, England does not equate to Britain.

Hurrache

Dempo1 wrote: »

Apologies, I only saw some captions afterwards

Chris Whitty said that he will continue to wear a mask because the epidemic is significant and rising at the moment, Vallance of the same view.

Great bit of mixed messaging, but it's Johnson basically saying **** it, don't want to have to deal with this anymore, away yis go and do what you want.

_Kaiser_

Hurrache wrote: »

There's 2 polls today, one a YouGov and some other one, they YouGov have something like 76% in disagreement with his move to have no requirement for masks indoors and on public transport, his scientific advisor wasn't too enthusiastic about it either when questioned.

And if that 76% of people want to continue wearing masks, no-one will stop them.

That is the biggest issue here. A complete loss of ability to make an independent decision and take an action without a Government directive/mandate. It's not exactly something healthy in a democracy either incidentally.

Same problem in this country.

Hurrache

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And if that 76% of people want to continue wearing masks, no-one will stop them.

That is the biggest issue here. A complete loss of ability to make an independent decision and take an action without a Government directive/mandate. It's not exactly something healthy in a democracy either incidentally.

Same problem in this country.

It's not the same problem, and you fail to understand, at this stage in the pandemic staggeringly, the purpose of people wearing masks.

jakiah

Hurrache wrote: »

There's 2 polls today, one a YouGov and some other one, they YouGov have something like 76% in disgareement with his move to have no requirement for masks indoors and on public transport, his scientific advisor wasn't too enthusiastic about it either when questioned.

So what? You suddenly care about public sentiment about lifting restrictions do you? They should just take the instruction handed down from on high, like you suggest people questioning restrictions on this thread do.

Richard Hillman

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Restaurant representative on Drivetime just now saying it’s gonna be a paper based vaccine pass for indoor dining. 1.8m letters or emails proposed to go out in the next 7 to 10 days. App would take months.

Surely that is pointless? There will people scamming the system left right and centre. I’m not vaccinated but no way my publican is gonna stop me from going indoors. Fake email away ya go.

I seen him the other day for the first time and he comes across as a craven weakling. Then seeing him today proved suspicions correct.

Imagine needing a vaccine passport to sit in McDonald's

AlekSmart

TomSweeney wrote: »

"There are better days ahead" :P

"You are Borg - You will be assimilated"........:eek:

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1412080015198543874

I agree with this. We need to open up soon or it will be too late.

titan18

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Restaurant representative on Drivetime just now saying it’s gonna be a paper based vaccine pass for indoor dining. 1.8m letters or emails proposed to go out in the next 7 to 10 days. App would take months.

Surely that is pointless? There will people scamming the system left right and centre. I’m not vaccinated but no way my publican is gonna stop me from going indoors. Fake email away ya go.

Very Irish of us to roll out a system that is immediately useless.

landofthetree

Hurrache wrote: »

Chris Whitty said that he will continue to wear a mask because the epidemic is significant and rising at the moment, Vallance of the same view.

Great bit of mixed messaging, but it's Johnson basically saying **** it, don't want to have to deal with this anymore, away yis go and do what you want.

If we can't get rid of masks it just means that vaccines are usless.

That's the bottom line.

Beechwoodspark

Hope I am wrong but seems the UK are taking unnecessary risks.

A few colleagues today said similar to me.

I just hope the “great Bozza Jozza” takes full responsibility if it goes down the sh1tter...

Penfailed

CruelSummer wrote: »

No but punters will be allow stay on the premises drinking until 3am as I already stated also.

Not every night.

suicide_circus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And if that 76% of people want to continue wearing masks, no-one will stop them.

That is the biggest issue here. A complete loss of ability to make an independent decision and take an action without a Government directive/mandate. It's not exactly something healthy in a democracy either incidentally.

Same problem in this country.

Personally i like the man in the big house to make all my decisions for me, that way i never have to take responsibility and i always have someone else to blame if things go wrong. I'm a big f*cking infant and i love it.

Archeron

One thing that has really struck me about all of this lately is that despite all of the brilliant analysis and heartfelt posts and learned opinions on this thread, on both sides, for me this isn't completely about covid anymore.

What i see now here is the complete disregard for the will of the people of our beautiful little country. The taoiseach and his cabinet has handed full control of the future of hundreds of thousands, millions of people to a group of unelected single issue individuals who account to nobody.

Michael Martin has essentially got his fingers in his ears saying lalala, everything is going wrong but I don't care, lalalala while the group who have the power are sitting there pulling the strings.

We will decide what you can and cannot do. And when. Us, not the people you elected.
We know you don't trust us,and rightly so, but tough, you have no choice.
If you start to act up, we'll take away your freedoms again. Wanna go back to 5km, do ya, DO YA? Yeah, now feck off and we might let you have a meaningful Christmas.
We control the government
The government control the police.
The government control the media.
We will use the media to portray you as a nutter.
We will attend calls and meetings of our own choosing.
The elected government will speak of us with a tone of deference at all times.
Anybody who argues with us is a crazy anti vaxxer and we will use the media to reinforce that.
Wash your hands.
Holdfirm
Just two more weeks.

The behaviour of certain members of these advisory councils has sparked a major nerve in people. The arrogance, the seemingly delibrate misinformation, appearing on prime time entertainment shows for Christ's sake. I am sure Tony holohan is a lovely man but in my job, if somebody isn't the right one to be in front of the customer, they aren't in front of the customer. How have the government still not learned this? People spoke about the return of Tony after his tragic loss as if was the beginning of a horror movie sequel, things would all get worse again we all thought. And we were right. Something is really rotten in Ireland right now and it's not just covid.

Whether nphet are right or wrong, and great arguments made for both sides on this thread, for me I will never forget any of the members of the current government who stand by and let this happen.

They have divided society horribly, instilled horrible fear in so many, and now in my own personal experience over the past two weeks, are actively damaging the vaccine rollout by creating uncertainty with those on the fence, eight people I know have said they won't take the vaccine, 7 of them have decided in the past week and a bit.

If an elected government can basically turn around and completely hand all responsibility to an untouchable group, then I worry biglyfor the future. For me the reopening of pubs is just a symbol of this now.

MOH

MOH wrote: »

I'm not assuming anything, but it's the only figure in that data that's remotely valid for comparison

(BTW it's also one that has been used by NPHET on numerous occasions precisely as a comparative measure as to how the virus is progressing)

I'm not sure exactly how the testing criteria "changed massively" during that period? As far as I know, we were still only ever testing based on people with potential symptoms having a referral from a GP, and close contacts of confirmed cases.

I don't know what you mean by "the rate of increase" - of what?
Because if you mean just 7-day cases, that makes no sense.
You can't just base whether things are getting better or worse on that, when the number of tests is varying dramatically.

Week 1: Test 1000 people. Get 500 cases.
Week 2: Test 10000 people. Get 600 cases. Oh no! Things are getting worse!
Week 3: test 100 people. Get 100 cases. Phew! Everything is much better!

Look at the data. Went from ca 20k to 50k tests a week from June to July. That’s why the positive rate dropped. Mass testing started. Symptomatic and close contacts still got tested at the same rate as before but this was supplemented by mass testing in factories, care homes etc. The overall cases grew approx 4% per day from end of June until October.

_Kaiser_

Hurrache wrote: »

It's not the same problem, and you fail to understand, at this stage in the pandemic staggeringly, the purpose of people wearing masks.

Given that, as you said yourself earlier today, lots of people aren't wearing them "properly" anyway, about the only purpose is to act as a placebo for some, and for others to be seen to be doing something.

We weren't wearing them this time last year and yet cases and actual hospitalisation and deaths were at minimal numbers, and yet even with them and social distancing and all the other restrictions, cases increased anyway in the autumn.

Maybe they're just not that effective!

Multipass

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Restaurant representative on Drivetime just now saying it’s gonna be a paper based vaccine pass for indoor dining. 1.8m letters or emails proposed to go out in the next 7 to 10 days. App would take months.

Surely that is pointless? There will people scamming the system left right and centre. I’m not vaccinated but no way my publican is gonna stop me from going indoors. Fake email away ya go.

I’m looking forward to this - it’s going to be fun carrying around your papers, it’ll be a joke by the end of the first night.

Dempo1

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Restaurant representative on Drivetime just now saying it’s gonna be a paper based vaccine pass for indoor dining. 1.8m letters or emails proposed to go out in the next 7 to 10 days. App would take months.

Surely that is pointless? There will people scamming the system left right and centre. I’m not vaccinated but no way my publican is gonna stop me from going indoors. Fake email away ya go.

He's just appalling, his general performance throughout the pandemic has been farcical, one minute saying he supports, next minute threatens absurd legal action, he pushed antigen testing an at the same time his members absolutely saying it won't work and won't happen.

AlekSmart

Snooker Loopy wrote: »

I call what goes on here among a cohort of posters ranting because that's exactly what it is, no facts or evidence can ever be good enough for them.

At the same time this cohort claims anybody who disagrees with them is "ranting".

At the heart of that hypocrisy is an authoritarian attempt by the "open it up" cult to shout down anybody who disagrees with them.

That's not a surprise given the clear links to far right politics among so much of the worldwide Covid denier lobby, it's exactly what you'd expect.

Could you define your "Worldwide Covid Denier" ?

aziz

titan18 wrote: »

Very Irish of us to roll out a system that is immediately useless.

Like the short lived 5 levels of restrictions

the kelt

AlekSmart wrote: »

Could you define your "Worldwide Covid Denier" ?

Basically anyone who believes our opening up plan is too slow :rolleyes:

FileNotFound

the kelt wrote: »

Basically anyone who believes our opening up plan is too slow :rolleyes:

What plan do we have. I think most are angry at the lack of any actual plan beyond "Not yet".

If MM simply put a figure on vaccination % pre opening of X, Y & Z we could all work to it.

Simple concept but seems He and cueball are incapable of simple straight forward planning. Even with a guide to the future across the water,

Parachutes

Seems NPHET’s only mandate nowadays is to keep itself relevant. Their modelling and predictions are absolutely insane.

AlekSmart

TomTomTim wrote: »

The same science that initially told us not to wear masks?

There is only ONE science !!!! :mad:

AlekSmart

Multipass wrote: »

I’m looking forward to this - it’s going to be fun carrying around your papers, it’ll be a joke by the end of the first night.

Lot to be said for a bit of Principle......

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-57722072

Anybody remember the sound of " Bittersweet Symphony" rolling over the Slane fields....