Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

bloopy

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1412088112856145924

Looks like we are going down a papers please route.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0705/1233041-covid-19/

With a hint of things to come?

Mr Martin added that it was too early to say whether vaccine certificates will be needed for other activities beyond indoor dining, but recalled that it was Government policy not to implement vaccine certificates up until advice was received from NPHET last week.

Ballynally

Chris whitty, CMO of the UK supported lifting restrictions saying basically (im paraphrasing) that delaying it would simply postponing further infections and that would coincide w the flu season. There is a point in letting Delta go through society and taking it on the chin in the summertime w the schools closed and 60% fully vaccinated.
That was actually an argument made before except now we have vaccine backup so the equation is a much more positive one .The more people getting infected NOW the more will be protected against new variants. The argument to keep restrictions for Ireland means we might just shift it into a danger zone at exactly the wrong time, leading to further restrictions.
It is quite a brave move by the UK. Reckless, according to others.
You can argue both ways.
Personally i can still see a good argument for wearing masks in busy indoor settings and not letting 50.000 people attend a football match.
They are pushing their luck imo..

Parachutes

bloopy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1412088112856145924

Looks like we are going down a papers please route.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0705/1233041-covid-19/

With a hint of things to come?

Mr Martin added that it was too early to say whether vaccine certificates will be needed for other activities beyond indoor dining, but recalled that it was Government policy not to implement vaccine certificates up until advice was received from NPHET last week.

You’re hiding unvaccinated people under the floorboards, aren’t you?

Hurrache

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Given that, as you said yourself earlier today, lots of people aren't wearing them "properly" anyway, about the only purpose is to act as a placebo for some, and for others to be seen to be doing something.

We weren't wearing them this time last year and yet cases and actual hospitalisation and deaths were at minimal numbers, and yet even with them and social distancing and all the other restrictions, cases increased anyway in the autumn.

Maybe they're just not that effective!

Ah sure why did we bother with them at all and instead cater for the lowest common denominator..

As for "maybe they're not that effective", you're digging yourself even deeper with that.

bloopy

Parachutes wrote: »

You’re hiding unvaccinated people under the floorboards, aren’t you?

Nope.
Out in the keg room.

UK being pragmatic, as usual.

Accept that cases will rise. Accept that some hospitalizations and deaths will occur. But when is there ever a perfect point to release restrictions.

It makes sense.

I just cannot see Michael Martin following Boris Johnson's courage.

Degag

Interesting what this will mean for hotel dining. An un-vaccinated person can currently dine in one. Will this change and they will now need to be vaccinated?!

Surely not!

DarkJager21

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Hope I am wrong but seems the UK are taking unnecessary risks.

A few colleagues today said similar to me.

I just hope the “great Bozza Jozza” takes full responsibility if it goes down the sh1tter...

I hope it goes fantastically well for them, giving the people their lives back and ending the bull****. And soon enough we can then point to their success and tell Tony and his gang of ****ing chancers, spoofers and snakes to finally get the **** out of our lives with their utter bollixology.

Richard Hillman

Even if we went the NPHET way and locked down everything until after Christmas. The people who will die from Covid or Covid variants will die anyway, even if we fully open now. The virus will get them eventually.

There are a cohort that will always be susceptible to the virus. The vaccine will not help them.

We can't save everybody, this has to be accepted. And we have to stop playing politics about it.

Beechwoodspark

[Deleted User] wrote: »

UK being pragmatic, as usual.

Accept that cases will rise. Accept that some hospitalizations and deaths will occur. But when is there ever a perfect point to release restrictions.

It makes sense.

I just cannot see Michael Martin following Boris Johnson's courage.

Courage? or reckless populism?, remains to be seen...

Degag

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Courage? or reckless populism?, remains to be seen...

It certainly isn't courage. I hope it goes well for them all the same.

PTH2009

Have to feel NPHET and The Government will reach a deal with the Hospitality bodies to allow Indoor Dining but there going make it as confusing and complicated as possible

Paper passwords yep that will me work !!! Nope it will be a disaster

charlie14

eskimohunt wrote: »

UK being pragmatic, as usual.

Accept that cases will rise. Accept that some hospitalizations and deaths will occur. But when is there ever a perfect point to release restrictions.

It makes sense.

I just cannot see Michael Martin following Boris Johnson's courage.

Some felt the UK was being pragmatic at the outset of this pandemic when they were chasing naturally acquired herd immunity, and that did not work out too well.
More toss of a coin now than pragmatism imho.

lawred2

Your papers please!!?

Joke

Long time lurker, first time poster.
Important point regarding the UK, and the announcement - is the below quote:
"We must be honest with ourselves that if we can't reopen our society in the next few weeks - when we will be helped by the arrival of summer, and by the school holidays - then we must ask ourselves 'when will we be able to return to normal?'," the prime minister added.

We all know winter (and school return) assists respiratory infections, if we can't open in summer, are we going to be able to do so in winter? If not, then will we be able to open next summer?
The next question is, can we stay open over winter?

pc7

Ballynally wrote: »

They are pushing their luck imo..

And what’s worse if it goes ars8ways it’ll be used here as ‘we told you so’.
It really is a live experiment. Hope it works out for them.

Parachutes

I’d go out on a limb and say they’ll be grand. There will be no overflowing hospitals and the sky won’t fall down.

If it does go tits up it just proves the vaccines are ****ing useless.

growleaves

Here published on 18th of June is NHS data on variants:

SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England

Please skip to Page 8/71 which gives the respective CFRs for Alpha variant and Delta variant.

Alpha 1.9% (1.8 to 2.0%)

Delta 0.1% (0.1 to 0.2%)

Delta, according to this NHS data, is 1/10th to 1/20th as deadly as the original strain and the first mutations.

Ice Albatross

I'd expect that to rise in winter when viral loads will be higher, but all the more reason to open fully now

Ballynally

pc7 wrote: »

And what’s worse if it goes ars8ways it’ll be used here as ‘we told you so’.
It really is a live experiment. Hope it works out for them.

My comment about 'pushing their luck' was made in the context of lifting ALL restrictions. I think the majority of british people are actually not in favour of mass events and abandonning face masks indoors, at least not yet.
You could go for a more gradual proces, given the Delta variant not a complete free reign. There are still at least some frailties Delta might explore. What i mean to say is that not all questions have been anwered.
Anyway, what i DO appreciate is the emphasis on personal responsibility.
Take care of yourself, wear a mask if you want, avoid busy places if you feel you need to. The 60+ person does not really want to hang out with the 20 year olds and visa versa. I can see a niche appearing.
Vully vaxxed pub only but it would probably be illegal.

Many of the people demanding hospitality open in Ireland are the same people condemning Boris Johnson for lifting restrictions.

It's amazing what politics can do to an individual's perspective.

Timmy O Toole

You'd swear he is after making it illegal to wear a mask ffs

Multipass

Degag wrote: »

Interesting what this will mean for hotel dining. An un-vaccinated person can currently dine in one. Will this change and they will now need to be vaccinated?!

Surely not!

They can stay in the hotel but must not enter the dining room :pac:

HalfAndHalf

Ballynally wrote: »

My comment about 'pushing their luck' was made in the context of lifting ALL restrictions. I think the majority of british people are actually not in favour of mass events and abandonning face masks indoors, at least not yet.
You could go for a more gradual proces, given the Delta variant not a complete free reign. There are still at least some frailties Delta might explore. What i mean to say is that not all questions have been anwered.
Anyway, what i DO appreciate is the emphasis on personal responsibility.
Take care of yourself, wear a mask if you want, avoid busy places if you feel you need to. The 60+ person does not really want to hang out with the 20 year olds and visa versa. I can see a niche appearing.
Vully vaxxed pub only but it would probably be illegal.

I take it you’ve not been watching Wimbledon tonight with the young British wan playing. Full capacity so I’d say people are up for back to normal.

Beechwoodspark

lawred2 wrote: »

Your papers please!!?

Joke

It’s either that or no indoor dining, that’s the choice

brickster69

eskimohunt wrote: »

Many of the people demanding hospitality open in Ireland are the same people condemning Boris Johnson for lifting restrictions.

It's amazing what politics can do to an individual's perspective.

And if the UK get it wrong there is no chance Ireland will open anything till Christmas :pac::pac:

Parachutes

Timmy O Toole wrote: »

You'd swear he is after making it illegal to wear a mask ffs

My glasses only work if you wear yours.

Whatsisname

growleaves wrote: »

Here published on 18th of June is NHS data on variants:

SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England

Please skip to Page 8/71 which gives the respective CFRs for Alpha variant and Delta variant.

Alpha 1.9% (1.8 to 2.0%)

Delta 0.1% (0.1 to 0.2%)

Delta, according to this NHS data, is 1/10th to 1/20th as deadly as the original strain and the first mutations.

It’s actually funny PHE’s data shows the vaccines are actually MORE effective on Delta than Alpha but it’s just completely ignored by the Irish media and government.

ixoy

eskimohunt wrote: »

Many of the people demanding hospitality open in Ireland are the same people condemning Boris Johnson for lifting restrictions.

To be fair, lifting all restrictions is different to asking for just hospitality to be opened whilst keeping other restrictions (e.g. masks on public transport).

DarkJager21

growleaves wrote: »

Here published on 18th of June is NHS data on variants:

SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern and variants under investigation in England

Please skip to Page 8/71 which gives the respective CFRs for Alpha variant and Delta variant.

Alpha 1.9% (1.8 to 2.0%)

Delta 0.1% (0.1 to 0.2%)

Delta, according to this NHS data, is 1/10th to 1/20th as deadly as the original strain and the first mutations.

In 5 months it has managed to kill a terrifying 73 people out of 60k plus cases in an economy far more open than ours, remind me again what figures NPHET pulled out of their holes for 3 months?? Let’s play a fun game actually - on page 10, look at the stats and let’s guess what the winter boogeyman one will be, my money is on Kappa