Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

bucketybuck

is_that_so wrote: »

The point is this is a whole lot more than just banging out a bit of code. You may call it incompetence but rollouts take time and it's generally sensible to take the time to get it right.

Why are Ireland so out of line with Europe in these things?

We can't just call it complicated and ignore that everybody else seems to be able to do it.

Fandymo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I dont think the "drinking problem" in this country is near as bad as made out, however expressing an opinion that there may be a drinking problem in the country is not the same as being anti drinking

Did you miss the post where he said that every pub in the country should remain closed because some people may have drinking problems??

paw patrol

Archeron wrote: »

One thing that has really struck me about all of this lately is that despite all of the brilliant analysis and heartfelt posts and learned opinions on this thread, on both sides, for me this isn't completely about covid anymore.

What i see now here is the complete disregard for the will of the people of our beautiful little country. The taoiseach and his cabinet has handed full control of the future of hundreds of thousands, millions of people to a group of unelected single issue individuals who account to nobody.

That was a beautiful and articulate post , I haven't quoted it all , but it eloquently worded and nailed exactly my feelings of despair at the state of Ireland over the last 12-15 months.

There is no freedom anymore in Ireland , every action is on lease from the state apparatus and that is wrong. No matter the circumstances.

As I said before if our rights are taken away in strenuous times for our safety it means we never had them in the first place.

mcsean2163

The pup golden handcuffs.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/state-s-unemployment-rate-stays-high-at-21-9-in-may-1.4601323?mode=amp

Nobody seems to care that 1 in 5 unemployed.

Ballynally

is_that_so wrote: »

The point is this is a whole lot more than just banging out a bit of code. You may call it incompetence but rollouts take time and it's generally sensible to take the time to get it right.

Well, then i would say your point is invalid, taken the fact that every other country in the EU has done it, even Romania, not known as a typical high tech country. As if we do not have some of the best IT companies in Ireland.
I see it as a possible deliberate obstruction not having a proper analysis going from A to B, implementing a system already in place months before its official opening.
And only looking at the issues after the problems arise. You know, the ones you could have anticipated at the start!
It is not beyond the possiblity of that being deliberate..imo, of course.

silverharp

Can I get an Amen!

https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1411971580423462913

storker

Deleted User wrote: »

Its still like IngSoc compare to other countries. Pull your own head out.

IngSoc...riiight. :rolleyes:

M_Murphy57

Archeron wrote: »

One thing that has really struck me about all of this lately is that despite all of the brilliant analysis and heartfelt posts and learned opinions on this thread, on both sides, for me this isn't completely about covid anymore.

What i see now here is the complete disregard for the will of the people of our beautiful little country. The taoiseach and his cabinet has handed full control of the future of hundreds of thousands, millions of people to a group of unelected single issue individuals who account to nobody.

Michael Martin has essentially got his fingers in his ears saying lalala, everything is going wrong but I don't care, lalalala while the group who have the power are sitting there pulling the strings.

We will decide what you can and cannot do. And when. Us, not the people you elected.
We know you don't trust us,and rightly so, but tough, you have no choice.
If you start to act up, we'll take away your freedoms again. Wanna go back to 5km, do ya, DO YA? Yeah, now feck off and we might let you have a meaningful Christmas.
We control the government
The government control the police.
The government control the media.
We will use the media to portray you as a nutter.
We will attend calls and meetings of our own choosing.
The elected government will speak of us with a tone of deference at all times.
Anybody who argues with us is a crazy anti vaxxer and we will use the media to reinforce that.
Wash your hands.
Holdfirm
Just two more weeks.

The behaviour of certain members of these advisory councils has sparked a major nerve in people. The arrogance, the seemingly delibrate misinformation, appearing on prime time entertainment shows for Christ's sake. I am sure Tony holohan is a lovely man but in my job, if somebody isn't the right one to be in front of the customer, they aren't in front of the customer. How have the government still not learned this? People spoke about the return of Tony after his tragic loss as if was the beginning of a horror movie sequel, things would all get worse again we all thought. And we were right. Something is really rotten in Ireland right now and it's not just covid.

Whether nphet are right or wrong, and great arguments made for both sides on this thread, for me I will never forget any of the members of the current government who stand by and let this happen.

They have divided society horribly, instilled horrible fear in so many, and now in my own personal experience over the past two weeks, are actively damaging the vaccine rollout by creating uncertainty with those on the fence, eight people I know have said they won't take the vaccine, 7 of them have decided in the past week and a bit.

If an elected government can basically turn around and completely hand all responsibility to an untouchable group, then I worry biglyfor the future. For me the reopening of pubs is just a symbol of this now.

This should be printed in the paper. Sums up perfectly how so many people are feeling about MMs spineless defection of power. Great Post.

pjohnson

silverharp wrote: »

Can I get an Amen!

https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1411971580423462913

Christ he's completely lost the plot now.

Doctor Jimbob

pjohnson wrote: »

Christ he's completely lost the plot now.

Having a bit of craic while trying to keep his business open. What a maniac.

_Kaiser_

Once again, Ireland can't just adopt something without giving it an "Irish twist" to balls it up!

Digital Covid Certificates for international travel may be arriving in letter boxes in the coming days as the Government ramps up plans to meet its July 19 deadline.

It is also expected EU travel passes will be used to pave the way for the return of indoor dining.

At a meeting with the hospitality sector, Government officials said the certificates will be posted to vaccinated people in the coming days and could be used as part of a vaccine identity system for pubs, restaurants and cafes.

Officials told the meeting the certificates could be sent to the 1.8 million people who have been vaccinated or who have recovered from Covid-19 in the coming days.

A digital cert send by post... FFS! :rolleyes:

But wait, there's more...

Hospitality representatives were warned that if an app has to be developed for indoor dining it could take a number of months.

They were told there will be no Garda enforcement of vaccine passes and the industry will be asked to regulate the scheme.

.. because they just couldn't have known this was coming right? And it's not going to be legally enforced anyway!

Yet another ridiculous last minute half-assed "solution" by Paddy, rather than just doing what is already done elsewhere.

Hurrache

paw patrol wrote: »

The opposition like SF , SDs , the left have been terrible the whole crisis .
Real nanny state clowns selling even more fear than the previous day.

It's disgraceful Joe, not one party has agreed with my outlier opinions as to how we should handle Covid, they're all in the pocket of big NPHET.

OwenM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

NPHET didn't impose restrictions. The government did.

Indoor hospitality for the vaccinated will likely return on July 19th or the week after, assuming that the HSE can manage to roll out the covid vax app - not guaranteed due to the hack but all the stops are pulled in order to get it out.

When will the remaining restrictions be fully eased? I don't know, likely when we are approaching herd immunity. So back to the office in late August along with masks and social distancing reduced to an advisory.

Don't be so f**king disingenuous, as if you believe the government are going remove the restrictions without a letter from NPHET.....

Poorside

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Once again, Ireland can't just adopt something without giving it an "Irish twist" to balls it up!



A digital cert send by post... FFS! :rolleyes:

But wait, there's more...



.. because they just couldn't have known this was coming right? And it's not going to be legally enforced anyway!

Yet another ridiculous last minute half-assed "solution" by Paddy, rather than just doing what is already done elsewhere.

Can't wait until Gardai are asking people to show their papers, that's always worked well, right?

Vicxas

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Once again, Ireland can't just adopt something without giving it an "Irish twist" to balls it up!



A digital cert send by post... FFS! :rolleyes:

But wait, there's more...



.. because they just couldn't have known this was coming right? And it's not going to be legally enforced anyway!

Yet another ridiculous last minute half-assed "solution" by Paddy, rather than just doing what is already done elsewhere.

Find me one restaurant that will turn away someone without a cert after 16 months of being shafted

_Kaiser_

Poorside wrote: »

Can't wait until Gardai are asking people to show their papers, that's always worked well, right?

But that's the point too... they won't be asking anyone it seems. It'll be up to the poor sod at the door to the restaurant/pub to sort out.

km79

Vicxas wrote: »

Find me one restaurant that will turn away someone without a cert after 16 months of being shafted

It’s a pure charade . A face saving exercise . It won’t be policed .
So in effect it will end up much looser than in countries who eased sooner ..........

Maybe they want to say “I told you so “!

Doctor Jimbob

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But that's the point too... they won't be asking anyone it seems. It'll be up to the poor sod at the door to the restaurant/pub to sort out.

Why in the fúck don't we just use the travel cert?

You'd swear we're actively trying to add a stupid spin to every decision.

titan18

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But that's the point too... they won't be asking anyone it seems. It'll be up to the poor sod at the door to the restaurant/pub to sort out.

No place will even ask

M_Murphy57

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Once again, Ireland can't just adopt something without giving it an "Irish twist" to balls it up!



A digital cert send by post... FFS! :rolleyes:

But wait, there's more...



.. because they just couldn't have known this was coming right? And it's not going to be legally enforced anyway!

Yet another ridiculous last minute half-assed "solution" by Paddy, rather than just doing what is already done elsewhere.

Months to develop a system we are legally obliged to have up and running in 13 days for airports? 13 days being the same timefrane this system is apparently needed for restaurants?

You couldn't write the incompetence of this govt.

And don't get me started on the notion of Copper Faced Jacks and the likes recouping their losses of the last 16 months by serving only the vaccinated, which predominantly makes up the elderly.

Floppybits

paw patrol wrote: »

That was a beautiful and articulate post , I haven't quoted it all , but it eloquently worded and nailed exactly my feelings of despair at the state of Ireland over the last 12-15 months.

There is no freedom anymore In Ireland , every action is on lease from the state apparatus and that is wrong. No matter the circumstances.

As I said before if our rights are taken away in strenuous times for our safety it means we never had them in the first place.

I have to say I am really worried that we are going down the route of segregating the population of this country and not one person is questioning this. To me it is a scary prospect that we are going to treat people differently based on whether they have a vaccine or not and it is a very dangerous road to go down and with not clear end dates in sight. People got so upset about the Public Services Card but we are so willing to accept this Covid green card or pass.

km79

titan18 wrote: »

No place will even ask

I’d say places in urban settings who normally have a bouncer will have the bouncer on the door for show.
Ritual settings. Not a chance . So as I said we end up actually being much looser indoors than a lot of the countries they were banging on about !

Ballynally

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Once again, Ireland can't just adopt something without giving it an "Irish twist" to balls it up!



A digital cert send by post... FFS! :rolleyes:

But wait, there's more...



.. because they just couldn't have known this was coming right? And it's not going to be legally enforced anyway!

Yet another ridiculous last minute half-assed "solution" by Paddy, rather than just doing what is already done elsewhere.

And i guess no QR code on it to scan like the ones airplane companies give you.
If not then it isnt a digital cert, just a paper proof of vaccination in case the DCC wont be ready on july 19 which the IT company involved called 'optimistic' a few days ago.
Copy and paste your name over another and go indoors.
NPHET insisted on a controlleable, verifiable method.
Clearly this isnt that.
Are they actually going to send out those letters or is it just a plan they might?Or are they going to make another statement saying that it cant be implemented? Delay upon delay. At this stage any delay is good f the government/NPHET.Confusion, chaos is good. Complications, hiccups. All good..

M_Murphy57

Floppybits wrote: »

I have to say I am really worried that we are going down the route of segregating the population of this country and not one person is questioning this. To me it is a scary prospect that we are going to treat people differently based on whether they have a vaccine or not and it is a very dangerous road to go down and with not clear end dates in sight. People got so upset about the Public Services Card but we are so willing to accept this Covid green card or pass.

Not just segregating, forcing peoples hands on medical decisions on peril of being frozen out of society.

I'm 100% in support of vaccines but I will not tolerate people being forced to take a vaccine to access services. I also will not tolerate the livelihoods of 300000 people being held to ransom by an unelected ego maniac trying force the implementation of such a system.

I suggest everyone who feels strongly about it write to their politicians because to me its an extremely dark path to go down as a society.

JRant

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Once again, Ireland can't just adopt something without giving it an "Irish twist" to balls it up!



A digital cert send by post... FFS! :rolleyes:

But wait, there's more...



.. because they just couldn't have known this was coming right? And it's not going to be legally enforced anyway!

Yet another ridiculous last minute half-assed "solution" by Paddy, rather than just doing what is already done elsewhere.

That's amazing stuff. Posting out digital certs kind of sums up what we have running this country right now.

The Garda might say that now but a quick tweet from Tony would certainly push them into action if he felt people were not using the paper based digital certs correctly.

What I find absolutely shocking this past few days is MM stating repeatedly that government don't want a vaccine passport for indoor dining but that it's the only way NPHET will allow it. The man needs to be removed from office and the government dissolved as they are clearly and by their own admission not running the country anymore.

Floppybits

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Not just segregating, forcing peoples hands on medical decisions on peril of being frozen out of society.

I'm 100% in support of vaccines but I will not tolerate people being forced to take a vaccine to access services. I also will not tolerate the livelihoods of 300000 people being held to ransom by an unelected ego maniac trying force the implementation of such a system.

I suggest everyone who feels strongly about it write to their politicians because to me its an extremely dark path to go down as a society.

Agreed 100%. It is a dark path that we are setting off on at the moment. There has to be a better way of doing this than segregating society. I know people will say it's only temporary but temporary till when. We as country are great at introducing temporary measures that become permanent, just think USC for a recent example.

JRant

Ballynally wrote: »

And i guess no QR code on it to scan like the ones airplane companies give you.
If not then it isnt a digital cert, just a paper proof of vaccination in case the DCC wont be ready on july 19 which the IT company involved called 'optimistic' a few days ago.
Copy and paste your name over another and go indoors.
NPHET insisted on a controlleable, verifiable method.
Are they actually going to send out those letters or is it just a plan they might?

It's such a completely daft idea that for me they will absolutely use it. I'm just surprised they aren't going to charge people for it. €10 a head would be a nice little earner for them so I'm sure they'll eventually get round to milking it.

Floppybits

JRant wrote: »

It's such a completely daft idea that for me they will absolutely use it. I'm just surprised they aren't going to charge people for it. €10 a head would be a nice little earner for them so I'm sure they'll eventually get round to milking it.

The sad fact here is that we are even discussing this. This should not even be considered.

Floppybits

Floppybits wrote: »

I have to say I am really worried that we are going down the route of segregating the population of this country and not one person is questioning this. To me it is a scary prospect that we are going to treat people differently based on whether they have a vaccine or not and it is a very dangerous road to go down and with not clear end dates in sight. People got so upset about the Public Services Card but we are so willing to accept this Covid green card or pass.

I believe there are more people fighting against this than is apparent. Writing emails and voicing your concerns to your local TD's is the absolute best thing to do regarding this. They have to listen, it's their job! I certainly have questions about this...and they have been voiced.

rob316

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Having a bit of craic while trying to keep his business open. What a maniac.

Making a joke out of this farce, fair play to him