Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

HildaOgdenx

Archeron wrote: »

One thing that has really struck me about all of this lately is that despite all of the brilliant analysis and heartfelt posts and learned opinions on this thread, on both sides, for me this isn't completely about covid anymore.

What i see now here is the complete disregard for the will of the people of our beautiful little country. The taoiseach and his cabinet has handed full control of the future of hundreds of thousands, millions of people to a group of unelected single issue individuals who account to nobody.

Michael Martin has essentially got his fingers in his ears saying lalala, everything is going wrong but I don't care, lalalala while the group who have the power are sitting there pulling the strings.

If an elected government can basically turn around and completely hand all responsibility to an untouchable group, then I worry biglyfor the future. For me the reopening of pubs is just a symbol of this now.

100% agree. I said similar recently on here.
What I'm seeing and hearing now about our country's situation scares me more than ANY virus ever could.

We have a puppet government, and a puppet media with NPHET pulling their strings.
I dread to think what the cost of all of this will be, longterm, and I am not just talking about financially.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

With two surges having hit the population already, two-thirds of the population vaccinated and covid mutated into a much less lethal form they really aren't turning the clock back to March 2020.

The evidence covid has mutated to a less lethal form is not there. Its mutated to a form that infects more easily but the people it infects are far younger on average or have been vaccinated. It is the vaccine that has made it less lethal, not the mutation.

Red Silurian

FileNotFound wrote: »

Boris is banking on people being quick to forget, take some hits now and be open for Xmas etc.

Somebody should tell Boris that. I'd say he doesn't have a clue what he's doing

Ballynally

From RTE:
"Separately, infectious disease specialist Professor Sam McConkey said discussion should now be taking place among decision makers in Ireland about "how much risk appetite" there is here in the reopening of society and the economy beyond the coming months.

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne, Prof McConkey said "lots more variants" of Covid-19 are going to emerge.

He said a vaccine resistant variant could "wipe out" the vaccine bonus, and it would take three to six months before another vaccine would be created.

"My concern about international travel generally has been the arrival in Ireland of a variant that could transmit widely in vaccinated people or people who've had Covid before, and then our vaccine bonus which is very real, and tangible would be wiped out.

"Anywhere there is a lot of virus being transmitted in a partially vaccinated population allows the emergence and development and natural selection of a strain that could transmit in vaccinated people," he added." End quote.


Now, mcConkey is deliberately creating fear here.
We know the vaccines protect against any variant, including Delta.
For him to come out to say a new variant 'might' wipe out the vaccine bonus is complete scare mongering.
I think he is doing a TH on this if not worse.
Even people fully vaccinated and getting reinfected, a very small percentage will only get mild symptoms and a very low viral load.
We know this. It is the reason why the UK is ending restrictions.
Still, here he is spreading unsubstantiated drivel.
He MUST know that, he cannot be serious.
He is talking about a different virus, SarsCov3. Different ballgame.
I mean, do these guys take turns?
Last week it was de Gascun giving his 'personal' opinion july 19 should be delayed. Now we have McConkey upping the fear factor.
Is this like the beginning of flagging a possible delay of july 19 for international travel? It is exactly what happened prior to the delay of the july 4 easing of restrictions.
The government seems to be on track delivering DCCs fr next week on.
Who is playing what game?
Claire Byrne doing her thing again.
McConkey should feel ashamed.

Edit: and to add, that might be the perfect reason for opening up completely, getting more and more people immunised in a short period of time by infection and vaccination, stopping any variant from getting a foothold because people will be immune to a great extend.
I am actually embarrassed for the man coming out with this stuff.

charlie14

Johns nephew wrote: »

By then it will be a vaccine resistant variant or the vaccines don't work as well as was hoped

Where are you getting this from ?
There is nothing to even suggest that presently when fully vaccinated all four vaccines are not extremely effectively. The problem isn`t with vaccines, it`s with the numbers fully vaccinated.

facehugger99

Whatsisname wrote: »

There was similar stuff when it first hit Italy, hundreds and thousands of identical posts all calling for a lockdown. Same happened when UK announced the herd immunity angle initially too. I remember coming across posts on Reddit that were blatant shill accounts too, you’d wonder how often you’re actually reading real people’s opinions on social media over the last year and not some bots.

The response to this 'pandemic' would have been wholly different 25 or even 20 years ago. There would have been nowhere near the level, extent or duration of restrictions and the measures would have been far more proportionate and balanced to the actual dangers of Covid, versus the downside of flushing your economy down the drain.

Social media has even changed the way the mainstream media report on issues. The sober reporting of facts has been jettisoned in favour of hysteria and hyperbole.

The Government meanwhile are kite-flying and dancing to the tune of all the nonsense being posted.

Ballynally

Deleted User wrote: »

The evidence covid has mutated to a less lethal form is not there. Its mutated to a form that infects more easily but the people it infects are far younger on average or have been vaccinated. It is the vaccine that has made it less lethal, not the mutation.

We actually dont know as we cannot compute reliably with two separate control groups under different circumstances.
But it is imo likely that it is less lethal. Different symptoms indicate that. Less of the cytokine storms, organising pneumonia w the immune system going haywire, attacking the left over viral particles leading to death.
Apart ft that we DO have better treatments and of course vaccinations.

Hello Moto GP

Stephen Donnelly is no-where near qualified to be minister of health in Ireland.

Along with Me-hole Martin been Taoiseach.

People with proper experience in the real world and also proper education relevant to their jobs should be in charge, not these shower of overpaid chancers.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The evidence covid has mutated to a less lethal form is not there. Its mutated to a form that infects more easily but the people it infects are far younger on average or have been vaccinated. It is the vaccine that has made it less lethal, not the mutation.

The headline on the Irish Independent website at this particular point in time is advice on how to distinguish the lethal deadly variant virus from hay fever.

Gortanna

Gortanna wrote: »

Amazing that any attempt at any discussion on any of that is relegated to the Conspiracy Theory forum.

One often reads articles in the West about how Twitter has erupted over such and such a thing. Almost half of the world's population has no access to the internet and couldn't care less about Twitter and social media as a result, In the West meanwhile, Twitter determines public policy and what journalists write about.

I don't think a lot of journalists would be too happy if Twitter was available in the Middle East or Africa. The majority opinions would contradict a lot of their deluded fantasies.

Whatsisname

Ballynally wrote: »

From RTE:
"Separately, infectious disease specialist Professor Sam McConkey said discussion should now be taking place among decision makers in Ireland about "how much risk appetite" there is here in the reopening of society and the economy beyond the coming months.

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne, Prof McConkey said "lots more variants" of Covid-19 are going to emerge.

He said a vaccine resistant variant could "wipe out" the vaccine bonus, and it would take three to six months before another vaccine would be created.

"My concern about international travel generally has been the arrival in Ireland of a variant that could transmit widely in vaccinated people or people who've had Covid before, and then our vaccine bonus which is very real, and tangible would be wiped out.

"Anywhere there is a lot of virus being transmitted in a partially vaccinated population allows the emergence and development and natural selection of a strain that could transmit in vaccinated people," he added." End quote.


Now, mcConkey is deliberately creating fear here.
We know the vaccines protect against any variant, including Delta.
For him to come out to say a new variant 'might' wipe out the vaccine bonus is complete scare mongering.
I think he is doing a TH on this if not worse.
Even people fully vaccinated and getting reinfected, a very small percentage will only get mild symptoms and a very low viral load.
We know this. It is the reason why the UK is ending restrictions.
Still, here he is spreading unsubstantiated drivel.
He MUST know that, he cannot be serious.
He is talking about a different virus, SarsCov3. Different ballgame.
I mean, do these guys take turns?
Last week it was de Gascun giving his 'personal' opinion july 19 should be delayed. Now we have McConkey upping the fear button.
Is this like the beginning of flagging a possible delay of july 19 for international travel?
The government seems to be on track delivering DCCs fr next week on.
Who is playing what game?
Claire Byrne doing her thing again.
McConkey should feel ashamed.

Someone should tell Cath Green, one of the inventors of the Oxford vaccine that McConkey says she's wrong.

Later on, of course, we had to think about the Delta variant, which was even more transmissible than the Kent variant.

Happily, we didn't have to make new vaccines from scratch. Instead we would use the methods we'd used in 2020 – we just needed the genetic code for the mutated virus.

We also wouldn't need to repeat all the clinical trials, since this was just a tweak of the original vaccine, and if the vaccine behaved as expected we should have a booster shot by the autumn of 2021.

The good news is that we also think it is unlikely that the virus can mutate in a way that keeps it functioning but makes our vaccine completely ineffective.

That's because a change in the spike protein – which allows the coronavirus to enter and infect human cells – that is radical enough to make our vaccine completely ineffective would also, almost certainly, be so extreme as to make the virus non-functional.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9728519/Why-dont-believe-Covid-variant-able-defeat-jab-completely.html

Red Silurian

Ballynally wrote: »

From RTE:
"Separately, infectious disease specialist Professor Sam McConkey said discussion should now be taking place among decision makers in Ireland about "how much risk appetite" there is here in the reopening of society and the economy beyond the coming months.

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne, Prof McConkey said "lots more variants" of Covid-19 are going to emerge.

He said a vaccine resistant variant could "wipe out" the vaccine bonus, and it would take three to six months before another vaccine would be created.

"My concern about international travel generally has been the arrival in Ireland of a variant that could transmit widely in vaccinated people or people who've had Covid before, and then our vaccine bonus which is very real, and tangible would be wiped out.

"Anywhere there is a lot of virus being transmitted in a partially vaccinated population allows the emergence and development and natural selection of a strain that could transmit in vaccinated people," he added." End quote.


Now, mcConkey is deliberately creating fear here.
We know the vaccines protect against any variant, including Delta.
For him to come out to say a new variant 'might' wipe out the vaccine bonus is complete scare mongering.
I think he is doing a TH on this if not worse.
Even people fully vaccinated and getting reinfected, a very small percentage will only get mild symptoms and a very low viral load.
We know this. It is the reason why the UK is ending restrictions.
Still, here he is spreading unsubstantiated drivel.
He MUST know that, he cannot be serious.
He is talking about a different virus, SarsCov3. Different ballgame.
I mean, do these guys take turns?
Last week it was de Gascun giving his 'personal' opinion july 19 should be delayed. Now we have McConkey upping the fear button.
Is this like the beginning of flagging a possible delay of july 19 for international travel?
The government seems to be on track delivering DCCs fr next week on.
Who is playing what game?
Claire Byrne doing her thing again.
McConkey should feel ashamed.

Edit: and to add, that might be the perfect reason for opening up completely, getting more and more people immunised in a short period of time by infection and vaccination, stopping any variant from getting a foothold because people will be immune to a great extend.
I am actually embarrassed for the man coming out with this stuff.

There's a lot to unpack there but I'll give it a go, clearly you are trying to scare people with your rhetoric, should people only be scared of your claims?

Now, mcConkey is deliberately creating fear here. Or are you creating fear of science?
We know the vaccines protect against any variant, including Delta. True, less so with delta as we know, how do we know this is true against variants that don't exist yet?
For him to come out to say a new variant 'might' wipe out the vaccine bonus is complete scare mongering. Do you have proof otherwise?
I think he is doing a TH on this if not worse. Would you prefer himself and TH said nothing?
Even people fully vaccinated and getting reinfected, a very small percentage will only get mild symptoms and a very low viral load. What does this have to do with a new variant?
We know this. It is the reason why the UK is ending restrictions. The UK are ending restrictions because Boris is an idiot who will probably cause more harm than good with his actions
Still, here he is spreading unsubstantiated drivel. What part of it is unsubstantiated, are you a professor in immunology as well?
He MUST know that, he cannot be serious. Why must he know this?
He is talking about a different virus, SarsCov3. Different ballgame. Not correct, if you took the time to read the article you would see he's talking about a variant to SARS-CoV-2
I mean, do these guys take turns? Probably, no point in all of them being on the radio at the same time unless it's a gift grub singalong
Last week it was de Gascun giving his 'personal' opinion july 19 should be delayed. Now we have McConkey upping the fear button. Or maybe he's right, do you have proof that he's wrong? Different modelling perhaps?
Is this like the beginning of flagging a possible delay of july 19 for international travel? Unlikely, it's an EU rule that our govt must abide by, stop trying to scaremonger people
The government seems to be on track delivering DCCs fr next week on. Yes
Who is playing what game? What game are you playing
Claire Byrne doing her thing again. What did she say?

Breaston Plants

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/indoor-dining-may-not-open-until-august-eamon-ryan-says-1.4612953?mode=amp
Grim.

FlubberJones

Breaston Plants wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/indoor-dining-may-not-open-until-august-eamon-ryan-says-1.4612953?mode=amp
Grim.

I did read this earlier, seems crazy, there are a number of people out there who simply WANT these places closed and are continuing to push for this.

Breaston Plants

Breaston Plants wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/indoor-dining-may-not-open-until-august-eamon-ryan-says-1.4612953?mode=amp
Grim.

And then, of course, it'll have to be delayed until September to get the schools back.

We really have to face facts here. If we ever want our basic freedoms back, we will have to take them back, not wait for our timid, terrified little Taoiseach to give them back when he's allowed to by a guy who reports into one of his Ministers.

MOH

charlie14 wrote: »

I have seen these modelling figures from other countries being used to promote "open up everything right now" here where they later shown to be spectacularly inaccurate.
It`s not an exact science by any means, but from the OP example I don`t see where it could be called a failure as people appeared to have heeded what was said and numbers dropped accordingly.

Oh yeah, I remember now when NPHET commented on how well everyone was suddenly following restrictions more than they had been :rolleyes:

gozunda

Floppybits wrote: »

We need to stop counting the number of people with Covid and start counting the number of hospitalisations of people with Covid. All that publishing the number of positive covid cases is doing is causing panic, probably less so now with the vaccine.

Of note we're doing both. And if you're suggesting suppressing information then no I can't agree with that.

Furze99

is_that_so wrote: »

The primary reason is that NPHET advised against it backed up by their huge projections and the government accepted that advice. The HSE had nothing to do with it. As for the 60-69, that is no longer an issue.

Bookmark the post, wait a week or so and we'll see. I predict this nonsense will evaporate when the government can claim that majority of citizens over 45 are double dosed. Since the 45+s and 50s are all done by now, their problem is the 60s cohort. You only have to listen to any radio programme to hear reference to the number of txts and complaints coming in wrt the latter.

suicide_circus

Breaston Plants wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/indoor-dining-may-not-open-until-august-eamon-ryan-says-1.4612953?mode=amp
Grim.

So we will soon be in a situation where you can get on a flight to Spain but you cant eat a bowl of soup in your local cafe.

*slow hand clap*

Red Silurian

Breaston Plants wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/indoor-dining-may-not-open-until-august-eamon-ryan-says-1.4612953?mode=amp
Grim.

Take with a pinch of salt, sleepy Eamon probably just woke up from a bad dream in the Dail Chamber. Not reopening on the 19th means people could travel abroad on the cert to dine indoors but people travelling here on the cert couldn't.

Fair enough most people who go on holidays abroad from Ireland this time of the year find themselves dining outdoors anyway, but inbound tourism would be completely decimated

HildaOgdenx

Johns nephew wrote: »

And on the 1 of August, it will be only 3 and a half weeks until the schools are due to start reopening and we can't jeopardize that����������

Heard a headline on the radio news over the weekend, MM proudly stating that things were on track to get the schools back in September. :rolleyes:

Ballynally

Whatsisname wrote: »

Someone should tell Cath Green, one of the inventors of the Oxford vaccine that McConkey says she's wrong.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9728519/Why-dont-believe-Covid-variant-able-defeat-jab-completely.html

Indeed. Thats why i put SarsCov3 in there. THAT would be a game changer, not variants of SarsCov2.
It is really beyond stupid, that's why i feel rather embarrassed for him.
It seems more and more experts have an agenda that seems in contradiction w known facts/data. Like they've joined a club and take turns to spread the 'message'. And then people wonder why it is trust in experts is diminishing.
McConkey, TH et al are giving very good reasons for this development.
'Trust me, im a doctor'. Well, maybe..

andrewbrowne

What time is the 18-34 portal likely to open at for tomorrow?? 12 midnight on button job tonight or whats the usual?

Ballynally

Ballynally wrote: »

We actually dont know as we cannot compute reliably with two separate control groups under different circumstances.
But it is imo likely that it is less lethal. Different symptoms indicate that. Less of the cytokine storms, organising pneumonia w the immune system going haywire, attacking the left over viral particles leading to death.
Apart ft that we DO have better treatments and of course vaccinations.

If you exclude those who previously got the more serious symptoms who are now vaccinated, are the delta symptoms actually that different.

All the symptoms recorded against the delta variant were recorded for previous variants, just at a lower level. When you dont have serious symptoms, the less serious ones seem to increase but were always there.


CDC Data pre delta variant
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/symptoms.html

People with COVID-19 have had a wide range of symptoms reported – ranging from mild symptoms to severe illness. Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus. Anyone can have mild to severe symptoms. People with these symptoms may have COVID-19:

Fever or chills
Cough
Shortness of breath or difficulty breathing
Fatigue
Muscle or body aches
Headache
New loss of taste or smell
Sore throat
Congestion or runny nose
Nausea or vomiting
Diarrhea

Mullaghteelin

b0nk1e wrote: »

The headline on the Irish Independent website at this particular point in time is advice on how to distinguish the lethal deadly variant virus from hay fever.

More evidence they think we are idiots!
I'm not suddenly going to confuse the sneezing and itchy eyes I'll experience if I go out for a walk, with Covid!
Hay fever sufferers experience their symptoms annually like clockwork and should be very familiar them. Most will have experienced hayfever on and off for weeks now, depending on weather.
We are now well into the SECOND hayfever season with Covid. Why is this suddenly a concern today?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think a lot of journalists would be too happy if Twitter was available in the Middle East or Africa. The majority opinions would contradict a lot of their deluded fantasies.

Twitter represents the majority opinion? Talk about deluded fantasies

Butson

Gortanna wrote: »

A lot of opposition in England. None in Ireland. Unique in the world in that respect. That's why Ireland is the outlier in Europe in terms of restrictions.

I think we are an immature race of people that are almost happy with being dictated to. There's a comfort in it.

The Church ran this country for 75 years, and politicians were happy to let them do it.
They are happy to let NEPHET do it now. All cheered on by the media, especially RTE.
Nephet, HSE, RTE and all the pro lockdown voices in Ireland - all have secure jobs and pensions. Hilariously, many of these people have not got one, but two pay rises since this disaster happened.

Risable.

Floppybits

gozunda wrote: »

Of note we're doing both. And if you're suggesting suppressing information then no I can't agree with that.

I am not suggesting the suppressing of information but moving the focus from the number of infected to the numbers of infected in hospital. Did we ever report on the number of people who had flu?

gozunda

growleaves wrote: »

With two surges having hit the population already, two-thirds of the population vaccinated and covid mutated into a much less lethal form they really aren't turning the clock back to March 2020.

Well Boris's has already stated that getting rid of restrictions now would mean that cases would be predicted to rise to 50,000 a day later this month and that "we must reconcile ourselves, sadly, to more deaths from Covid".

And that's straight out of his the same stable as his alleged comments from last year that "no more ****ing lockdowns … no matter the consequences”.

This seems to come with the suggestion that opening up now means that the wave latter on line the year won't be as disastrous...

We run the risk of either opening up at a very difficult time when the virus has an edge, has an advantage, in the cold months, or again putting everything off to next year."

Boris's flip flop policies are something we should not be idealising imho

Ballynally

At the same time:

"Tánaiste Leo Varadkar later acknowledged that there could be “teething problems” with the digital Covid travel cert, but said he hoped it would be ready to be issued at the same time as all other European Union member states."

He 'hoped' it would be ready. There 'could' be teething problems.
Less than 2 weeks from july 19.
'Issued at the same time as all other EU member states".
He means way way after everyone has gone before us.
What a farce!