Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

I looked at the UEFA England v Germany game in Wembley and then I looked at the rugby, Ireland v Japan game in the Aviva , both good games, but the stadiums told their story. People have to be allowed live and learn to live with covid.

Also the Centre of Disease Control (CDC), the organization tasked with telling it as it is to the US Congress have recently come out and stated that the figures related to covid deaths in the USA are 6% of what has been officially stated to date. In other words 94% of the deaths were misreported as deaths due to covid.

Stop the blatant lying with this nonsense

Ballynally

I am going to stick my neck out and make a prediction.
As the UK is going full frontal with the aim of reaching herd immunity, their infection numbers will go really high, possibly higher than 100.000 per day.
Even though the link has been broken they will still have a large number of people ending up in hospital with a serious amount of deaths.
The peak might be late august- beginning of september and likely to go down as fast as it has gone up w perhaps a little tailing off at the end.
It will be low at the start of the flu season in october.
That will be the end of Covid19, at least for the UK.

Ireland will take a different approach but will end up w a peak possibly a month or so later at the end of september- start of october.We wont reach herd immunity and will still have restrictions with infection staying up longer than the UK. We wont have the numbers going down as fast as the UK with an even longer tail off. While the UK enjoys its freedom while commemorating their deaths, we in Ireland will still have restrictions in place and flu season coinciding, hospitals relatively full and politicians urging caution, the end is coming but not yet, xmas restrictions etc. Plus a huge mountain of debt and taxes rising and much less of a rebound the UK will have.
Question here, which one would you rather have?

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

Regarding these figures, which are open to interpretatio, the epidemiologist and science writer Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz explained in a recent post, “it’s pretty rare that someone wouldn’t have at least one issue caused by coronavirus prior to their death, and all it means is that in 94% of cases people who had COVID-19 also developed other issues, or had other problems at the same time.”

Exactly- some who got pneumonia caused by Covid had their death caused by covid. The death certificate listed pneumonia and Covid as cause of death. The report was only 6% of deaths mentioned covid only, not 94% weren’t caused by covid. So kindly amend your post

M_Murphy57

Phishnet wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Stop the blatant lying with this nonsense

Regarding these figures, which are open to interpretatio, the epidemiologist and science writer Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz explained in a recent post, “it’s pretty rare that someone wouldn’t have at least one issue caused by coronavirus prior to their death, and all it means is that in 94% of cases people who had COVID-19 also developed other issues, or had other problems at the same time.”

Post a link to a reputable news agency backing your claims.

Fandymo

growleaves wrote: »

Maybe the members of NPHET will each have a prophetic dream, and the gods of the skies will beckon them to open up.

"It is prophesised," Dr. Holohan will say, "nevermore shall we entomb this land. The gods have spoken."

Sure you can’t reopen Heaven with the modelling numbers so high. God will have to tell St Peter to keep them gates closed, for at least the next 2 crucial weeks. And no angels flying, the wind off their wings spreads the airborne virus.

pooman

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly- some who got pneumonia caused by Covid had their death caused by covid. The death certificate listed pneumonia and Covid as cause of death. The report was only 6% of deaths mentioned covid only, not 94% weren’t caused by covid. So kindly amend your post

:pac:

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

Can you give me a reputable news agency in the USA?

Happy to let the lies stand? I guess it’s confirmed now as deliberate lying rather than wilful ignorance

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

Can great white sharks spread covid 19? Are there any studies?

Aren’t you the funny little deliberate liar

The UK has changed its strategy to herd immunity based on prospective figures -- up to 100k-200k cases per day projected.

And mass vaccination allows that to happen: as you boost the immune response of the entire population whilst the most vulnerable are already protected.

Yes, a small number will die from the virus -- but that's a consistent factor that will never go away.

Perhaps in 2-3 weeks time, when Ireland has reached even higher vaccination figures, we can -- and should -- adopt the same approach.

mammychicken

So depressed here watching the Italy Spain match seeing the crowds in Wembley and the scenes of packed squares in Italy all celebrating I can’t even watch the match in the pub with my mates What is so wrong with this place 😫

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

Reverting to name calling, tut tut. Revealing personality characteristic.

You lied. Plain and simple. And you are proud of it. A much more revealing personality characteristic

bear1

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40330955.html

Sigh...

gozunda

Ballynally wrote: »

I am going to stick my neck out and make a prediction.
As the UK is going full frontal with the aim of reaching herd immunity, their infection numbers will go really high, possibly higher than 100.000 per day.
Even though the link has been broken they will still have a large number of people ending up in hospital with a serious amount of deaths.
The peak might be late august- beginning of september and likely to go down as fast as it has gone up w perhaps a little tailing off at the end.
It will be low at the start of the flu season in october.
That will be the end of Covid19, at least for the UK.

Ireland will take a different approach but will end up w a peak possibly a month or so later at the end of september- start of october.We wont reach herd immunity and will still have restrictions with infection staying up longer than the UK. We wont have the numbers going down as fast as the UK with an even longer tail off. While the UK enjoys its freedom while commemorating their deaths, we in Ireland will still have restrictions in place and flu season coinciding, hospitals relatively full and politicians urging caution, the end is coming but not yet, xmas restrictions etc. Plus a huge mountain of debt and taxes rising and much less of a rebound the UK will have.
Question here, which one would you rather have?

OK- the UK. Boris is pushing this move on a wing and a prayer. There are significant numbers of people yet to receive their second dose of vaccine, maj of those have been given AZ. Despite that he now wants to lift all social
distancing and mask requirements. Current estimates seem to indicate that the UK will not have the majority of people there fully vaccinated until September. That with rapidly rising case numbers it Increasingly looks like the UK will be the pariah of Europe and is likley to face increased measures with regard to travel restrictions from other countries. The UK already faces large amounts of debt with regard the pandemic and covid. Thats not going to get any better whilst the **** hits the fan.

In the meantime, cases and hospitalisations are rising. Even with a conservative number of infections being estimated in the UK - hospitals are going to get hammered regardless of any likley Flu season. And remember- there was no flu season last year.

Ireland is on track to have the majority vaccinated much the same time as the UK with an estimate of August / September. So we will be reaching the same levels of herd immunity as the UK via vaccination. Social distancing and mask wearing requirements are not being removed and hopefully this along with other measures will keep infection rates lower until all those who want to are vaccinated. Ireland also has large amounts of debt from the Pandemic - once full vaccination is achieved - Ireland will likley be on its way whilst the UK is still cleaning up the mess.

The only caveat with this is we share a common travel area and an open border with Boris and friends. That could royally fuk up all our plans.

PTH2009

bear1 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40330955.html

Sigh...

Jesus were never getting back to pre covid life at this rate

Vicxas

We're like those hypochondriac parents who have their kids in a bubble so they don't get sick.

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Jesus were never getting back to pre covid life at this rate

Did anyone actually bother to read the article?



Apologies, no one here ever reads an article. Otherwise they would not continuously post the constant stream of nonsense that infests much of the thread

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did anyone actually bother to read the article?



Apologies, no one here ever reads an article. Otherwise they would not continuously post the constant stream of nonsense that infests much of the thread

That’s a bit harsh surely’ nonsense that infests much of the thread. ‘ People’s lives have been turned upside down during this past year, actually more than a year now. There are different voices and opinions but that’s ok is it not.

bear1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did anyone actually bother to read the article?



Apologies, no one here ever reads an article. Otherwise they would not continuously post the constant stream of nonsense that infests much of the thread

Yes.

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Did anyone actually bother to read the article?



Apologies, no one here ever reads an article. Otherwise they would not continuously post the constant stream of nonsense that infests much of the thread

That is a rude post. You're insulting the whole thread once again.

Yes Varadkar double-talks us by warning against a "spiral of fear" and playing down the next wave as well as calling the UK re-opening "risky".

The headline to the article strikes me as completely justified and an honest summation of the most important point overall since 'risk' is code for 'We intend to remain in stasis'.

PTH2009's reaction has grasped the gist of what Varadkar is communicating to the public.

Surely you will get at least a large chunk of the population (falling between 70 and 80% ) that are freely willing to take up the vaccine. why must it be forced on those who don't??

Im not anti-vax myself, I'm awaiting my own call, but i have a degree of suspicion about this whole episode if I'm being honest. The fact remains that all these vaccines have been rushed onto the market. We don't know what serious side effects will come from them. Will they cause infertility issues? or circulation issues? or something else who knows. If it goes tits up, the pharma companies reserve the right not to be sued. Whats to worry about?

Another thing, if a vaccine could be discovered this quickly, then surely there would be a few viable approved drugs widely available on the market ??

All boils down to one thing. €€€€€€

W123-80's

gozunda wrote: »

OK- the UK. Boris is pushing this move on a wing and a prayer. There are significant numbers of people yet to receive their second dose of vaccine, maj of those have been given AZ. Despite that he now wants to lift all social
distancing and mask requirements. Current estimates seem to indicate that the UK will not have the majority of people there fully vaccinated until September. That with rapidly rising case numbers it Increasingly looks like the UK will be the pariah of Europe and is likley to face increased measures with regard to travel restrictions from other countries. The UK already faces large amounts of debt with regard the pandemic and covid. Thats not going to get any better whilst the **** hits the fan.

In the meantime, cases and hospitalisations are rising. Even with a conservative number of infections being estimated in the UK - hospitals are going to get hammered regardless of any likley Flu season. And remember- there was no flu season last year.

Ireland is on track to have the majority vaccinated much the same time as the UK with an estimate of August / September. So we will be reaching the same levels of herd immunity as the UK via vaccination. Social distancing and mask wearing requirements are not being removed and hopefully this along with other measures will keep infection rates lower until all those who want to are vaccinated. Ireland also has large amounts of debt from the Pandemic - once full vaccination is achieved - Ireland will likley be on its way whilst the UK is still cleaning up the mess.

The only caveat with this is we share a common travel area and an open border with Boris and friends. That could royally fuk up all our plans.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

My honest opinion is this is not ending anytime soon. Anywhere.

That's not anti government or anti Holohan sentiment, it's just my honest take on the situation.

I will put my neck on the line and say indoor pubs/restaurants are not going to open in Ireland in 2021.
I think the virus will force alot of countries to temporarily retreat in this battle in the coming months.

Bit cynical

eskimohunt wrote: »

And mass vaccination allows that to happen: as you boost the immune response of the entire population whilst the most vulnerable are already protected.

Yes, a small number will die from the virus -- but that's a consistent factor that will never go away.

Perhaps in 2-3 weeks time, when Ireland has reached even higher vaccination figures, we can -- and should -- adopt the same approach.

And of course, if the UK were to drag it out instead of adopting this new approach, more could die since the time when the virus is active is prolonged and avoiding it becomes more difficult. Instead, work with the virus. Take advantage of the immunity it confers with hospitalisations and deaths reduced due to vaccinations.

I think with regards to Ireland, we've too much invested psychologically in the idea of virus avoidance to follow the current UK example. It may take another year here. Another problem is that the summer, when this sort of strategy makes most sense will be largely over by the time we're to the same level of vaccine shots as the UK at which time preparations for schools and colleges opening will be the priority. That and the fact we've got a very rigid-minded medical establishment means, I'm afraid, not fully opening until summer 2022.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

He is paid a salary as cmo. If everything opens tomorrow he will still be cmo

The day the Power Tribunal reports, Tony Holohan will not be Ireland's Chief Medical Officer.

If the pandemic had not happened, the Tribunal would likely have already issued its report to the Oireachtas.

Every month that Tony Holohan manages to keep restrictions going is a month the Tribunal doesn't sit. Every month he keeps his job, €15,000 of Irish taxpayers' money goes into his bank account. It is likely that a similar amount is put into his pension pot, tax free.

If there was no lockdown in March 2020, Tony Holohan would not be Chief Medical Officer today.

Phishnet wrote: »

So maybe Tony knows more than what he is letting on.

As many women who should still be alive today, but are now dead, would tell you if they could, Tony knows much more than he lets on.

Phishnet wrote: »

Luxembourg’s Prime Minister Xavier Bettel (48) was hospitalized with Covid despite having got his first shot of the Astra Zeneca vaccine, so I wonder just how good are these vaccines? He got his first Jab on the 6th May 2021 and was diagnosed with Covid 19 on the 27th June 2021..

Man has half a cup of coffee and is not as awake as he is after a full cup of coffee. More on Claire Byrne at 9.

What a totalitarian sh1t hole we are becoming. Gardai threatened to make example of restaurant owner and his customers :mad:

https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1411971580423462913

Good on him.

The extremists won't give up their power without a fight. Ignoring them out of existence is the way forward.

finalfurlong

b0nk1e wrote: »

Good on him.

The extremists won't give up their power without a fight. Ignoring them out of existence is the way forward.

You would love to ignore them but its hard to when rte ,virgin media etc keep putting the ISAG on.I was waiting for the euro preveiw on rte news when up popped Mc Conkey.Before I could react i caught his line-"by august we could have"3,5 or 8 thousand cases a day"this was basically last line of quote and was left to hang there.This is ridiculous-3,5 or 8 thousand?Why didnt he go for the full house and finish with 11000.

finalfurlong

finalfurlong wrote: »

You would love to ignore them but its hard to when rte ,virgin media etc keep putting the ISAG on.I was waiting for the euro preveiw on rte news when up popped Mc Conkey.Before I could react i caught his line-"by august we could have"3,5 or 8 thousand cases a day"this was basically last line of quote and was left to hang there.This is ridiculous-3,5 or 8 thousand?Why didnt he go for the full house and finish with 11000.

All that needs to be said about Dr. McConkey is that in March 2020 he was basically the presenter of the Scare Byrne show, with herself as a guest, for weeks claiming that 120,000 people were going to die of Covid in Ireland.

As the pandemic comes to a close, 5000 people have died in Ireland of Covid. We might reach 6,000.

McConkey's reputation is mud.

Real Donald Trump

I see that DR Alco Mike Ryan is urging countries to be more cautious about re- opining to quickly. Trying to stay relevant I see, like a lot off them.

Ballynally

bear1 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40330955.html

Sigh...

Or...you could see that as him preparing Ireland for adapting the same strategy at some point in the future.
You never quite know which way he jumps..

Ballynally

From uncle TH on RTE:

"The Department of Health has reported 397 new cases of Covid-19.

There are 54 patients in hospital, with 16 being treated in intensive care, that is up two since yesterday.

In a statement, Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said: "We are seeing a small but concerning increase in hospitalisations in recent days, coming 10-14 days after the five-day moving average of daily case numbers began to increase.

"This is a cause for concern and we will be monitoring it closely in the days and weeks ahead." End quote.

Since we can expect a rise in hospitalisations with people being treated and released plus a small percentage staying for longer, how about setting up some Covid clinics outside of hospitals and/or in the community like we did in the first wave?
The large majority will need pretty standard care, no open wounds, surgery etc. And we can let the hospitals run for non Covid patients.
We could still send the heavy pulmonary cases to hospitals/ICUs if needed.
I mean, what is the big deal here? (Dont answer that..!)