Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

timmyntc

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613898#Comment_117613898

"Considered"

But not part of the legislation - so its discriminatory.

A vague commitment to "consider" PCR or antigen tests does not negate the fact that we are about to have in place, a system whereby vaccinated people have rights to enter places that the unvaccinated do not.

Unlike other member states who rolled it out with free antigen testing, we have no testing available as a substitute for vaccination (or proof-of-recovery), which is in contravention of the council of Europes resolutions on vaccine passports also.

https://rm.coe.int/protection-of-human-rights-and-the-vaccine-pass/1680a1fac4

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613898#Comment_117613898

The answer is no other country. WHO said they were against such a system being implemented on Claire Byrne radio show two weeks ago but here we are with the only discriminatory cert system in Europe.

Ah antigen tests are being looked at, we'll set up a task force, we'll do another pilot. Does anyone really think theyll be used anytime before October or even at all? Government won't go that out of line with NPHET advice, they're already putting pressure on the under 18s being allowed dine indoors. Thankfully that's the one little bit of sense in this vaccine passport by the government.

Graham

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614021#Comment_117614021

It probably is discriminatory. Until additional measures are put in place I'm ok with that to be honest.

It's preferable to leaving businesses closed longer than would otherwise be the case.

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614085#Comment_117614085

We don't know if antigen testing will ever be used for this. Even if we did have the capacity to have widespread antigen testing like in other countries we don't know if it would be utilised here. NPHETs position isn't not to allow antigen testing because we don't have it set up, it's not to use them at all for this anyway. They want it to work in the discriminatory fashion that it will be when it begins next week. There's very little to suggget that government would or will use antigen testing for this if it was all in place already.

Not having a go at you here, I just don't want it suggested this is only happening as we don't have wide spread antigen testing here. It's happening because this is what NPHET want and it's also because if NPHET we don't have the widespread antigen testing and there's little so far to suggest government would have taken a different approach and went against NPHET on this.

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614202#Comment_117614202

The HSE and government are looking to implement antigen testing in certain circumstances. NPHET are dead against their use anyway so their opinion doesn't matter. The fact that it is used in other countries is enough of a case for its use.

If any mods are reading this, can you please ban me from the covid forum? The new site layout has removed my previously requested ban. I do not want to be tempted by the drivel written in here.

timmyntc

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614085#Comment_117614085

You (aswell as NPHET) act like those are the only choices we have - discriminatory vaccine passport or no hospitality.

When we could easily have antigen or PCR tests accepted also right now. Antigen testing is done by private operators all over the country (you use it for entry to most EU countries as part of EU covid pass).

It would be fairly easy to roll out antigen testing further. Its easier than PCR tests to set up and results are very quick.

If the HSE can open walk in testing centres all over the country, they could just as easily have walk in antigen testing or else allow pharmacies to do antigen tests. The testing & results will be available onsite - no need for deliveries to labs.

Graham

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614202#Comment_117614202

There are lots of things we don't know.

What we do know is provision had been made for testing in the new legislation and rapid antigen testing is under consideration.

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614329#Comment_117614329

What we do know is on whatever day our indoor dining opens next week, we'll have the only discriminatory vaccine passport system in Europe against those who are young and healthy.

Looking at something or considering something means nothing.

Red Silurian

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117613985#Comment_117613985

A man wearing a mask, when near someone, during a pandemic, is one of the less strange things I've seen in the past year... Why do you not consider it normal behavior?

Completely agree with your comment regarding the new site though

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614382#Comment_117614382

Discriminatory or not there are no alternate systems yet. Government got caught out by the NHPET "sobering figures" and their insistence on this measure. While it's of no great consolation, we should be looking at 80%+ fully vaccinated by the end of next month with the knock-on effect on infections.

Graham

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614382#Comment_117614382

Give it whatever label you want.

I'm just glad to see restrictions being eased. Whatever way you look at it, that has to be preferable to leaving hospitality closed for another month while rapid tests are considered.

Is it going to leave some people unhappy, absolutely. They'll get over it.

Graham

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614021#Comment_117614021

Would it be fair to say you haven't read the proposed legislation so you're just guessing at what is/isn't part of it.

I'm thinking in particular of the part of the legislation that covers permitting the minister to make regulations prescribing additional classes of persons as permitted persons including

"persons who have received the results of medical tests the purpose of which is to detect the presence of Covid-19, or the virus SARS-CoV-2, in the person to whom the test was administered;"

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614497#Comment_117614497

I wouldn't say I'm giving it a label, I'm just describing it exactly as it is, that's all. But if you want to call that given it a label fired ahead.

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614470#Comment_117614470

Where they really got caught out was by listening to NPHETs anti science on antigen tests months ago but because they did this is governments mess of their own making.

I'd be hugely surprised if we see antigen testing for indoor dining before end of August if at all. We've heard nothing about it in 2 weeks. Surely the plan would be in place by now if they wanted to use and the next few weeks would be implementing how to roll it out. There's no plan and no want of a plan on antigen testing for this.

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614614#Comment_117614614

I think the plan for antigen testing is other areas , college campuses, sports events etc. Indoor dining will be resolved by vaccinations seems to be the approach.

Graham

There's nothing in the legislation to suggest that's the plan. Where did you see that is_that_so?

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614676#Comment_117614676

It's not in it but it has been talked about quite regularly over the last few months. Harris has been pushing the campus idea for months.

Klonker

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614640#Comment_117614640

Ah yes, another pilot is being done, this time on antigen testing in colleges. Might be completed by September, a few months to compile and come to findings by Christmas by which stage NPHET might or might have a quick look at it before dismissing it, just like the Ferguson report.

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614738#Comment_117614738

NPHET are out of the loop on this as they will never recommend them. It will be government and the HSE who will make the call on where they are used. TBH the HSE has more than enough expertise to do that.

Graham

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614714#Comment_117614714

Isn't rapid testing for hospitality now also being talked about.

Haven't the EAG on Rapid Testing been asked to provide guidance on the subject?

Regardless, I can see the logic in deferring a decision on reliance on testing rather than vaccination.

is_that_so

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614792#Comment_117614792

Well Leo mentioned it and it could well be. There is certainly no universal love for the passport approach in government. We'll have to wait for a excitable Donnelly tweet to see!

Meanwhile

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1415669258504138755

Chivito550

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614422#Comment_117614422

Outdoors, walking past somebody. Sorry that's not normal behaviour.

Graham

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614850#Comment_117614850

Quite normal in countries that have, or have had an outdoor mask mandate.

timmyntc

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614557#Comment_117614557

Again there you go - permits the minister to make regulations. Those regulations dont exist, nor do we have any idea if they ever will.

If the Minister fully intended on rolling out antigen/PCR testing as a means of allowing access, why not include it in the legislation already? Instead we get discriminatory legislation and the Govt on summer break.

facehugger99

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614850#Comment_117614850

Of course it's not - only a clown would argue otherwise.

It's like the people who jump out onto the road when they are walking past you on the footpath - the chances of contracting Covid and dieing are so miniscule they couldn't be calculated but they are in real danger of being run over by a van.

Lot of really stupid people out there - I suspected as much but Covid has brought that home in a big way.

speckle

I am unashamed to be blinded with tears and have shaking hands as I try write this..

Yesterday I rang as many tds as I could....today I have just got off the phone with the Áras...and asked for the President to convene a Council of State and not sign such a bill into law.

I and my remaining parent who is the Presidents age are beyond disturbed. A person in their twilight years who twice survived TB (and even had a covid 94.5% recovery rate pre vax)should not have to be in fear for the future for those who they will leave behind.

I have not seen,touched or held them in over a year and a half. (Not everyone drives before you ask)... We talk on the phone..I saw their stress aged face just once during that time on a borrowed mobile on Christmas Day...This bill and those behind it, to say the least ...are still fracturing familys between those vaxed and those exempt or already naturally immune.

Email info @president.ie

Other contact details

https://www.president.ie/en/about/contact-us

I love ...my beautiful country Ireland dearly ..flaws and all but this is the line in these green fields we should not step over unless we all do so together.

Go n-éirí an bóthar linn

Speckle

Whatsisname

A reminder that hospitality opened at the end of last summer with grand total of 0 people vaccinated and no need for tests.

ACitizenErased

Quite incredible what's happening in Scotland. A collapse in positivity rate now down to 6% and a clear downward trend in case figures.

Graham

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117614967#Comment_117614967

I assume you not only haven't read the proposed legislation, you didn't read my post either.

It's there in black and white, "persons who have received the results of medical tests"

The fact that it's down to the minister to decide if/when it should be implemented doesn't change that.

Until then, like it or not you'll need to be vaccinated or recovered to avail of indoor hospitality. That's probably a sensible approach for now.