Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

RoryMac

prunudo wrote: »

The discrimination argument over the vaccine certs could be easily solved if they had implemented antigen testing here. Most European countries seem to offer the cert to vaccinated, recovering or those with negative tests.
Now why none of this was planned for over the last 6 months is as inexcusable as nphets modeling programmes. But again the cmo seems to be the common denominator.

Seems absolutely pointless to implement a complicated and most likely very costly system for checking vaccination or antigen test status for adults going to a restaurants or pub when we'll all be vaccinated in about 2 months.

Far easier to have proper guidelines around numbers, social distancing, ventilation etc and allow everyone in

Rayne Wooney

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Has Tony given an indication yet of when - sometime in the future - all restrictions will be removed?

2 months, maybe?

August & September: 2,000 deaths

Electric Picnic: 50,000 deaths

Halloween: 1 million deaths

Christmas Eve: 5 million deaths

New Years Eve: Death of all microbial life on the island

Restrictions will then be lifted.

Northernlily

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Show me your evidence they died from covid and not with covid.

Thanks.

I'd like to see this too. Especially since its 117 deaths out of 62 million people.

prunudo

RoryMac wrote: »

Seems absolutely pointless to implement a complicated and most likely very costly system for checking vaccination or antigen test status for adults going to a restaurants or pub when we'll all be vaccinated in about 2 months.

Far easier to have proper guidelines around numbers, social distancing, ventilation etc and allow everyone in

Absolutely, that ship has well sailed but again its almost as if the system was designed to fail with the cmo wanting the last laugh and final say on when the dreaded pubs would reopen.

landofthetree

Phishnet wrote: »

I would like to give readers the true figures from the UK for Delta Variant Deaths in the last week.

117 total deaths.

44 unvaccinated

23 single dose

50 fully vaccinated


More people have died in the UK from the Delta variant Covid virus that have been fully vaccinated than those who have not been vaccinated at all.

I will leave it there.

Of those who were fully vaccinated who caught the Delta variant, 50 died, data from Public Health England that was published on Friday indicated.

The figure represents almost half of the total 117 deaths associated with the variant in the UK, where Delta now represents most cases.

But experts said this does not undermine what we know about the efficacy of the vaccines, given that the deaths come from age groups at higher risk and represent a tiny proportion of the 92,029 Delta cases analyzed.

https://www.businessinsider.com/vaccinated-among-delta-deaths-but-older-relatively-few-uk-data-2021-6?r=US&IR=T

dominatinMC

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

My job certainly has been impacted.

My primary concern are my vulnerable family and friends and I make no apologies for that.

Cowen just after laying out the risks to vaccinated ppl from delta.

WTF are you talking about. If you are vaccinated you are >90% protected from illness. You can live the rest of your life in a hazmat suit behind closed doors if you're unwilling to take that <10% chance.

Jinglejangle69

Remember how defensive Sir Tony got about Antigen testing last week in front of the committee?

He is on a crusade now. Plain as day.

His ego won't back down.

He's winning and he knows it.

CoisFharraige

Deeper Blue wrote: »

All 50 fully vaccinated people could have been on death's door before they got the vaccine. Unless more details are given about the people involved those stats essentially mean nothing.

Exactly - and as someone who works with stats, this disinformation infuriates me.

I will put it in simple terms for you Phishnet (and supporters).

Let's imagine a big island called Holohan Island had 1,000 people living on it. With a 95% vaccine uptake rate.

- 950 people have a vaccine (but are not 100% protected from severe illness)
- 50 do not have a vaccine, and are at a much, much greater risk.
- Presume a 93% protection against severe illness and death thanks to the vaccine. 883 people live to see another day on Holohan Island. 67 (fully vaccinated) people die.
- Presuming a 5% mortality rate in the unvaccinated population, 2-3 people will die from this unvaccinated cohort.

So you must be more likely to die if you have a vaccine than not? Do you see the problem here? Stats can be blown up to make us believe anything, but those figures from the U.K. should be expected if almost all adults are vaccinated (ergo, if adults are going to die, the dead are likely to vaccinated since there might be a 9:1 ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated in the population). (To any stats/maths heads reading, yes, this is over-simplified)

CalamariFritti

Phishnet wrote: »

I would like to give readers the true figures from the UK for Delta Variant Deaths in the last week.

117 total deaths.

44 unvaccinated

23 single dose

50 fully vaccinated


More people have died in the UK from the Delta variant Covid virus that have been fully vaccinated than those who have not been vaccinated at all.

I will leave it there.

I have posted this a couple of weeks ago on the vaccination thread. It is a trend that has been observed since February.

Underlying material is here (table 4, page 12).

Between Feb 1 and June 14 60,624 severe outcomes were attributed to the delta variant. Of which 73 lead to death (0.12%).

Interesting are the vaccination cohorts in that group. 35,521 of those were unvaccinated leading to 34 deaths amongst them. Whereas 4,087 have fully vaccinated status leading to 26 deaths.

Of course the average age of the fully vaccinated is obviously much higher than the competently unvaccinated. So it appeared that even vaccination didnt drive death rate of the old vaccinated (0.64%) below the death rate of the young unvaccinated (0.1%).

Before anyone says those percentages still seem quite high it must be repeated this was amongst the recorded severe cases only. So I guess true IFR rates are anything between factor 10 or 20 smaller again. And then there are the undetected on top of it which could be factor 10 again after that.
I guess thats why England expects to go ahead with the full abandonment of restrictions regardless. Overall threat assessment must be tiny.

I've actually been wondering is this delta variant the one we've been talking about when it was said that the virus will eventually 'run out of steam' and peter out into relatively harmless strains.

All bars and restaurants should go ahead and open on July 5th anyway and should be defended by the people. These bozos work for us at the end of the day not the other way around. Hopefully Gardai will turn a blind eye to it like they do to most rural robberies.

JRant

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Delta variant news:
https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1409988135287767040?s=20

Someone needs to tell the ONS that their actual real life data is completely wrong and Nolan's "Random number generator" should be used instead.

Using real world data to make a decision, tut Tut, that's just not good enough.

Feria40

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I have posted this a couple of weeks ago on the vaccination thread. It is a trend that has been observed since February.

Underlying material is here (table 4, page 12).

Between Feb 1 and June 14 60,624 severe outcomes were attributed to the delta variant. Of which 73 lead to death (0.12%).

Interesting are the vaccination cohorts in that group. 35,521 of those were unvaccinated leading to 34 deaths amongst them. Whereas 4,087 have fully vaccinated status leading to 26 deaths.

Of course the average age of the fully vaccinated is obviously much higher than the competently unvaccinated. So it appeared that even vaccination didnt drive death rate of the old vaccinated (0.64%) below the death rate of the young unvaccinated (0.1%).

Before anyone says those percentages still seem quite high it must be repeated this was amongst the recorded severe cases only. So I guess true IFR rates are anything between factor 10 or 20 smaller again. And then there are the undetected on top of it which could be factor 10 again after that.
I guess thats why England expects to go ahead with the full abandonment of restrictions regardless. Overall threat assessment must be tiny.

I've actually been wondering is this delta variant the one we've been talking about when it was said that the virus will eventually 'run out of steam' and peter out into relatively harmless strains.

Can you and CoisFharraige please email your TD's..and anyone else that will listen.

What has happened over the past 24 hours is just beyond the pale.

Not alone am I (somewhat) young an unvaccinated which means I'm going to be screwed over for the next few months, more importantly I and everyone I know will be paying for this ****storm via higher taxes for the rest of my life.

Red Silurian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All bars and restaurants should go ahead and open on July 5th anyway and should be defended by the people. These bozos work for us at the end of the day not the other way around. Hopefully Gardai will turn a blind eye to it like they do to most rural robberies.

Just a thought, does a wedding dinner have to be in a hotel? Can you have it in a pub or a restaurant instead? Lines getting blurred eh?

Edit: I googled my question and found a similar tweet from a Kerry restaurateur named Paul Treyvaud (great minds?) who was in the news a few months back for saying he was going to open on July 1st lockdown or not, be interesting to see if he makes good on his threat

brickster69

Phishnet wrote: »

I would like to give readers the true figures from the UK for Delta Variant Deaths in the last week.

117 total deaths.

44 unvaccinated

23 single dose

50 fully vaccinated

All of the 50 fully vaccinated deaths were over 50 years old. That is from approx. 3700 fully vaccinated 50+ year old positive cases. No idea how many positive Delta cases there has been like.

Deeper Blue

Phishnet wrote: »

So could the unvaccinated cohort, so your supposition is equally true for all 117 souls.

Very true also

Whatsisname

The Daily Mail here in England (who are admittedly an awful outlet, but do get leaks from government) are running with vaccine passports being dropped altogether, even from mass events. They don’t rule out certain businesses who may implement their own system but say they’ve no plans to make it compulsory as we move on and learn to live with covid, like we do the flu. Yet the Tony Holohan show wants vaccine passports just to go to the pub.

The Torys have burned me too many times so I’ll believe it when I see it but it’s a far cry from the perpetual misery and cowardice from the Irish government.

jace_da_face

Isn’t the solution to this not straightforward? You open indoor dining to the vaccinated and to negative antigen tests. The real failure of NYPHET (apart from crazy modeling figures) is their inability to endorse antigen testing.

hamburgham

I heard Ray Darcy say a couple of times at the beginning of his show today (before I managed to turn the dial) that he has absolutely no problem with Ireland being an outlier, he actually repeated it a few times. This is coming from someone on 450k a year, public purse needless to say. And he’d be the first to slag off the Catholic Church etc for what went on years ago. This is a mirror image of that abuse of power.

Jinglejangle69

Phishnet wrote: »

So could the unvaccinated cohort, so your supposition is equally true for all 117 souls.

Can you answer my question?

How many of the 50 died from covid and not with covid?

This man is spot on....others should follow. Once it reaches critical mass, its game up for the government, nphet, etc.


https://twitter.com/PaulTreyvaud/status/1408736749816328198

Green Peter

jace_da_face wrote: »

Isn’t the solution to this not straightforward? You open indoor dining to the vaccinated and to negative antigen tests. The real failure of NYPHET (apart from crazy modeling figures) is their inability to endorse antigen testing.

Tony came out against antigen early on and he won't give in to being wrong. The gov seriously need to get independent advice, we are a laughing stock as outliers in Europe. NEMPHT should be asked to work for free untill we are fully functioning again as a society, I bet they would view things differently.

Next election, remember this and bury the government and all of these privileged, government-funded institutions who tried to deny you your livelihood.

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

I would like to give readers the true figures from the UK for Delta Variant Deaths in the last week.

117 total deaths.

44 unvaccinated

23 single dose

50 fully vaccinated


More people have died in the UK from the Delta variant Covid virus that have been fully vaccinated than those who have not been vaccinated at all.

I will leave it there.

Can I just confirm here that your position is that vaccines do not work, and therefore people should not immunise themselves?

Who could ever have imagined a few short weeks ago that the NPHET simps would have merged with the anti-vaxxers.

Vaccines work. Vaccines save lives. Those like you and Holohan who talk the vaccines down and cast doubt on them are jeopardising our vaccination programme. It is despicable, Luddite, anti-science, anti-biology scaremongering.

Vaccines. Work.

Denny61

We the public voted in these politicians.this does not give them a mandate to run roughshod over us ..I day .all businesses in hospitality open up for indoor dining.regardless...lets see if the gardai try to close all of them down . there will be revolts all over the place.. the government dare not take a step further..as there will be such a back lash ..so I'm saying.we the public.are the ones who create.our own destiny..so 5th of July..I say open up ...end of

hamburgham

Richard Hillman wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MarcMacsharryTD/status/1409850227717251073?s=19


A FF TD. It hasn't gone down well. The heave may be finally on.

I’ve contacted my TD’s aka Tony’s Dopes a couple of times to complain. Never got any reply. Tomorrow I’m ringing and demanding to speak to them.

Jinglejangle69

It's pretty clear this pathetic excuse of a government won't stand up to criminals, young scum running a muc in our city for years, now lump NHPET in with that.

Weak cowards.

Country has gone to the dogs. Gardai cancelling 1000s of calls for distressed callers. They couldn't care less.

That story is now buried since King Tony has grabbed the limelight.

Whos actually running the show?

Who in power actually cares about its citizens????

Utterly depressing.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Happy to see one of my TDs, who I actually know quite well, was one who tried to stand up to this nonsense.

"Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Michael McGrath reportedly hit out at what he said was the “grenade” having been “lobbed on our desks” by Nphet."

Daniel McConnell: Reopening farce a mess of Government's own making
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40325555.html

First line as well in there from Michael McNamara questioning who is in charge. I note, how he has been absolutely ridiculed on this forum and other outlets, to the point he’s being abused for not having his mic turned up. He has been one person willing to question the status quo from day 1.

hamburgham

b0nk1e wrote: »

Just cancelled a long weekend in Kerry next month (€285) and a five-night stay in Donegal (€750) around the August Bank Holiday.

That's over a thousand euro - without a bite of food or a pint of stout drunk - the Government has just taken from small businesses in its jurisdiction and sent to northern Ireland instead.

This will be happening up and down the country today. The worst Taoiseach in the history of the state: a toxic combination of scared and spiteful which is going to take generations to recover from.

Yes, I think spite in particular is behind the total official indifference to the plight of the aviation industry. Michael O’Leary is the face of the Irish aviation industry and he has shown up official Ireland so many times that they really HATE him and just couldn’t wait to get him. Never mind the collateral damage. Michael and his family are financially secure forever. Not so the hundreds of thousands reliant on aviation.

lawrencesummers

Phishnet wrote: »

Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, GENETIC FEATURES, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited by law.

This right is enshrined in Article 21 Charter of Fundamental Rights.

The EU is good for somethings. Mehole, your ****ing with Brussels, you will lose.

If they can’t open for vaccinated then they won’t allow opening.


Better to open with the stupid rules and then just ignore them

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

When will the FDA and the EDA approve these vaccines. Presently, all such vaccines for Covid 19 are unapproved. That is why you sign a disclaimer (waiver) when you get vaccinated. The truth of the matter is that those currently vaccinated are the human guinea pigs in medium and long term effects of the vaccines. They have no recourse to seek damages from the State or Big Pharma should they have serious side effects associated with the particular vaccine taken.

By the way, I am all for vaccines, just I like approved ones.

The vaccines are approved. Every vaccine used in Ireland is approved under an conditional use authorisation issued by the Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency on foot of authorisation by the European Medicines Agency, using the same process (but accelerated, given the nature of the emergency) as for every other medicinal product used in the EU, following the normal clinical trial process. The only difference is that the stages were carried out in parallel rather than sequentially.

If you are waiting for the United States Food and Drug Administration, and the European Defence Agency, to approve any medical product for use in the European Union, I am afraid you will be waiting for quite some time.