Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

suicide_circus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Varadkar on NT now and for someone who is normally so comfortable in the media, he's stumbling badly to stand over this one.

Totally unconvincing - even more than usual.

He sounded incredibly weak and hesitant, very different to the usual Leo, even with Shane Coleman softballing him throughout.

greensausage

RGS wrote: »

Leo is really so poor for a normally suave media performer. He doesn't believe what he is saying.

Of course he doesn't, he seems to have at least some common sense around the whole lot as we've seen when he publicly disagreed with nephet in the past.

Not much he can do now, Tony has made his decision, MM is just going to do whatever he says so unless Leo fancies collapsing the government over it he's going to have to toe the line over it.

JRant

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I would like someone to review my interpretation of the data in this post.

But it appears that NPHET modelling is not taking into account real word findings on delta from England.

The obvious answer to this is NPHET have completely ignored real world data in favour of their own modelling.

agoodpunt

NPET dosent want an exit because HSE will be back to waiting trollies in corridors where it was before covid

Varadkar sounds so unconvincing trying to push this corona pass terrible idea.

stephenjmcd

While he's stumbling through the interview on morning Ireland the point he's made on both Newstalk and Morning Ireland is essentially in 3 or 4 weeks if the UK haven't seen anything major from a spike in cases then this will all have to be revisited.

Now that's just my reading of it, he's referenced them as being further down the Delta road a few times and how they'll be watching them. Might be just a kop out answer but you'd hope if the hospitals don't come under any real pressure over there that the NPHET models would be thrown out the window and remodeled by someone independent.

It's quite clear he doesn't believe what he's saying either

ThunbergsAreGo

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Varadkar on NT now and for someone who is normally so comfortable in the media, he's stumbling badly to stand over this one.

Totally unconvincing - even more than usual.

I honestly don't think he (or many of them) believe in what has happened.

Which makes it all the worse

ThunbergsAreGo

Relax brah wrote: »

It’s disappointing for many but let’s be honest comparing ourselves to other countries is abit ridiculous - our drinking culture is the real issue. It’s a lack of trust from the government and you can’t blame them, anyone who frequents Dublin City centre will know this

UK is the exact same

Cienciano

Relax brah wrote: »

It’s disappointing for many but let’s be honest comparing ourselves to other countries is abit ridiculous - our drinking culture is the real issue. It’s a lack of trust from the government and you can’t blame them, anyone who frequents Dublin City centre will know this

They could have done indoor dining with no alcohol then.

Relax brah

paw patrol wrote: »

our drinking culture is very similar to most northern european countries
its' not unique.

That’s simply not true.

Widdensushi

Relax brah wrote: »

It’s disappointing for many but let’s be honest comparing ourselves to other countries is abit ridiculous - our drinking culture is the real issue. It’s a lack of trust from the government and you can’t blame them, anyone who frequents Dublin City centre will know this

I am guessing you don't travel much?

Red Silurian

plastic glass wrote: »

What I find surprising is that the opposition hasn’t really come out in opposition of this. They are talking more about opposing the vaccine passport to dine in than anything.
I reckon they will have to allow antigen tests. That will be the compromise
Crazy that we are opening travel before indoor dining. Absolutely crazy. Things like this are going to push semi normal people to the extreme right. Or left

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032
Labour: https://twitter.com/TheHardShoulder/status/1409942240521117704

Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

ThunbergsAreGo

greensausage wrote: »

Of course he doesn't, he seems to have at least some common sense around the whole lot as we've seen when he publicly disagreed with nephet in the past.

Not much he can do now, Tony has made his decision, MM is just going to do whatever he says so unless Leo fancies collapsing the government over it he's going to have to toe the line over it.

He can bring down the government aa you say though.... And there is no way Martin let's it come to that.

Leo is as culpable as the rest of them, which is a shame as he's the only one I had a smidgen of hope for.

All TDs should have had a free vote in this one, out the fence sitters. This effects every community

ThunbergsAreGo

Red Silurian wrote: »

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032
Labour: https://twitter.com/TheHardShoulder/status/1409942240521117704

Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

So are either of them for or against opening indoor dining?

Fence sitting and bluster, and I agree with both of them. But neither have a position on indoor dining

_Kaiser_

paw patrol wrote: »

he doesn't believe it himself - he knows NPHET are insane.

Do they (FF) have more dirt him ? Remember he took Tony H to task and then the trouble with the leaks came. It was well known he agreed to pipe down in return for FF support and hasn't strayed much since from the Michael Martin line.

if he had any balls he'd put it up to Martin or the FF party - and threaten to take down the government.

Time to actually act or time for a heave against MM within FF- hopefully the FF back benchers know it's time to save their seats.

I know I've been banging the anti restriction drum for a year but yesterday was momentous in terms of utter gob****ery and I'm seeing a huge change in attitudes which is good to see.

Leo will sit tight. Never forget that Leo is all about Leo, and even though he's well aware of the complete disconnect from reality in the "expert" NPHET report and the public anger, he won't risk the damage that would result to himself and FG if he brings down the Government. He probably remembers how long it took him to get re-elected himself last time out.

Remember too that he is the one who (along with that other clown Enda) led us to this position by making FF electable again in the first place, and the one who agreed to go into coalition with them - albeit because both were more afraid of SF in Government (the one thing I agree with them on), than maintaining the pretence of being different parties.

As usual of course, Eamon Ryan and his Greens are too busy trying to hold their party together and dreaming up new taxes in the guise of fantasy policies to be part of the discussion.

If it's going to happen it'll be the backbenchers and a heave against Martin - something that was already only a matter of time, but delayed by Covid.

paw patrol

Relax brah wrote: »

That’s simply not true.

Must have dreamt all my travel and the nitelife
apologies.

paw patrol

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Leo will sit tight. Never forget that Leo is all about Leo, and even though he's well aware of the complete disconnect from reality in the "expert" NPHET report and the public anger, he won't risk the damage that would result to himself and FG if he brings down the Government. He probably remembers how long it took him to get re-elected himself last time out.

Remember too that he is the one who (along with that other clown Enda) led us to this position by making FF electable again in the first place, and the one who agreed to go into coalition with them - albeit because both were more afraid of SF in Government (the one thing I agree with them on), than maintaining the pretence of being different parties.

As usual of course, Eamon Ryan and his Greens are too busy trying to hold their party together and dreaming up new taxes in the guise of fantasy policies to be part of the discussion.

If it's going to happen it'll be the backbenchers and a heave against Martin - something that was already only a matter of time, but delayed by Covid.

I can't argue with that.

My hope for leo is that he will see the mood change and bet on being hailed a hero for get rid of MM and NPHET.

But as you said leo is for leo - that is what drives him.
And his eye is on the future as an EU , UN or World Economic Forum overlord.

Relax brah

Widdensushi wrote: »

I am guessing you don't travel much?

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Daz_

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Just because Europe doesn’t have our same bar culture don’t assume there isn’t a lot of drinking going on , because there is plenty of it in their homes .

hamburgham

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

So are either of them for or against opening indoor dining?

Fence sitting and bluster, and I agree with both of them. But neither have a position on indoor dining

Absolutely. Waiting to see which way the wind is blowing.

bucketybuck

Relax brah wrote: »

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Yes we know, it is the only one still closed.

is_that_so

paw patrol wrote: »

I can't argue with that.

My hope for leo is that he will see the mood change and bet on being hailed a hero for get rid of MM and NPHET.

But as you said leo is for leo - that is what drives him.
And his eye is on the future as an EU , UN or World Economic Forum overlord.

It is a Donnelly purview to dissolve NPHET. Leo will get rid of MM in 2023 when they move the deckchairs around.

Ballynally

Green Party minister of state Ossian Smyth told RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta the Government would be asking an independent body such as the World Health Organisation or the European Centre for Disease Control to review Nphet’s data on the Delta variant.

“We will be looking at it again independently on the figures outside of Nphet. We will ask them [an independent authority] to look at the figures independently,” he said.

However, his comments came only hours after the Taoiseach ruled out reviewing
Nphet’s figures.

“The idea of setting up alternative, different pools of advices and researches, would lead to incoherence in the short term,” Mr Martin said.


Martin cannot accept other people looking at the data because it would mean he'd have no confidence in his CMO and would need to sack him (via Donnelly).
But i can see the pressure mounting from within the cabinet and elsewhere.
MM is in trouble. A decision has to be made both on the confidence in the CMO and what happens to the lifting of restrictions.
If the CMO goes, NPHET cannot possibly hold on to the same numbers and keep their credibility. If the CMO stays the same applies to MM.

Call me cynical, but I don't think it's just spinelessness on the politicians' parts. It is an in-your-face dereliction of decision-making and leadership duties.

And it suits the politicians down to the ground. Relying on NPHET allows them to relieve themselves of decision-making responsibility (and distance themselves from the consequences of course).

"What could we do? Our hands were tied. When NPHET told us that x, y, z we had to act." etc. etc. etc.

Red Silurian

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

So are either of them for or against opening indoor dining?

Fence sitting and bluster, and I agree with both of them. But neither have a position on indoor dining

To me it looks like both Labour and Sinn Fein are for the opening of indoor hospitality.

Solidarity seem to be the only crowd supporting the Govt position on this one using the argument that none of them are doctors so the public health doctors (NPHET) should be trusted on this and that opening indoors would put many of their lower paid voters at risk

Notably, no political party, government or opposition is arguing against the NPHET figures. SF/Lab are simply saying it's an acceptable level of death with the Govt and Solidarity saying it isn't

Reading between the lines I think SF and Solidarity have differing opinions in a strategy to get as many #1 and #2 votes as possible..

daydorunrun

Went to bed angry, woke up angry. Simply cannot believe after all the bull**** of ‘we’re all in this together’ over the last 18 months - the powers that be (and the government!) are going to introduce medical apartheid into this country. I am seriously doubtful I have the stomach to grow old here.
No government, no opposition, no hope.

facehugger99

Red Silurian wrote: »

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032


Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

Is this the same SF that wanted more restrictions or a different version?

Or are they trying their usual fence-sitting and ditch-hurling?

No doubt it'll be lapped up by the brain-dead morons who vote for them either way.

The state of politics in this country has been been worse - it's a truly depressing landscape.

There is no political party worth voting for.

is_that_so

Ballynally wrote: »

Green Party minister of state Ossian Smyth told RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta the Government would be asking an independent body such as the World Health Organisation or the European Centre for Disease Control to review Nphet’s data on the Delta variant.

“We will be looking at it again independently on the figures outside of Nphet. We will ask them [an independent authority] to look at the figures independently,” he said.

However, his comments came only hours after the Taoiseach ruled out reviewing
Nphet’s figures.

“The idea of setting up alternative, different pools of advices and researches, would lead to incoherence in the short term,” Mr Martin said.


Martin cannot accept other people looking at the data because it would mean he'd have no confidence in his CMO and would need to sack him.
But i can see the pressure mounting from within the cabinet and elsewhere.
MM is in trouble. A decision has to be made both on the confidence in the CMO and what happens to the lifting of restrictions.
If the CMO goes, NPHET cannot possibly hold on to the same numbers and keep their credibility. If the CMO stays the same applies to MM.

Well, they'd probably decline. By the time they got to it, we'd have another recommendation from NPHET so it would be pointless. It is something for the enquiry though, whenever that happens.

CruelSummer

Pathetic from Leo Varadkar.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1410141076871131143?s=21

Implying he ‘hopes it works out for U.K.’ as Ireland’s modelling forecasts all sorts of apocalyptic scenarios.
Used to support FG, not after this.

bear1

I can't believe that we are waiting to see what happens in the UK.
A place which is far less restrictive and with a far higher population.
We are such a docile people.