Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Zebra3

What difference does it make if the so-called opposition know in advance about the restrictions?

Whinging about irrelevant issues instead of doing their job.

ThunbergsAreGo

Red Silurian wrote: »

To me it looks like both Labour and Sinn Fein are for the opening of indoor hospitality. .

Where have they said this?

Apologies alot has gone on I probably missed this

Phishnet

Phishnet wrote: »

You have taken an experimental vaccine under emergency provisions, you have given informed consent. Big Pharma has a letter of indemnity with the European Union.

So let’s be clear, should you grow a bushy tail in the morning due to the virus, I would rate your chances at 0% to successfully obtain damages from big Pharma or Government. Are you that naive to think this area has not been totally thought through?

Head off and do some research on the matter before responding.

You do realise there is such a thing as vicarious liability? I work directly with the vaccine roll out. There is no "waiver". There is informed consent, the same as if you are going for an operation.

gozunda

Klonker wrote: »

I'm sure the ECDC weren't talking about the country with the harshest restrictions not easing their restrictions when they made that analysis. Its very disingenuous of NPHET to put that in their letter to government and pretend it relates to Ireland. And it says more easing shouldn't happen until vulnerable are vaccinated. 2 weeks time everybody over 45 and all other vulnerable will have 2 doses if they want one, theres no reason shouldn't open restaurants fully in 2 weeks.

But which bit do you mean exactly ?

The probability that SARS-CoV-2 Delta VOC becomes rapidly dominant in the EU/EEA is considered very high.

Based on the estimated transmission advantage of the Delta variant, 70% of new SARS-CoV-2 infections in the EU/EEA as of early August are projected to be due to this variant. As a consequence, based on available evidence, there is a very high probability that there will be a surge of SARS-CoV-2 infections in the community. This assessment is based on information available to ECDC at the time of publication and the assessment.

Simulations show that there is a large risk associated with rapidly lifting NPIs (ie restrictions) in the presence of a more
transmissible variant. While a fast relaxation of NPI stringency could lead to a fast and significant increase in daily cases, hospitalisations, and deaths, keeping current NPI stringency, while continuing or even accelerating vaccination rollout to those most at risk of severe outcomes, can help keep them low. Under different scenarios and unless NPI measures are maintained, a high increase in both hospitalisations and deaths is possible (green and orange scenario in Figures 3, 5, 6), potentially reaching levels of last autumn if no additional measures are taken. Furthermore, entering autumn with such high incidence could pose an additional risk as school re-opening and
associated adult contact patterns together with climate factors, are expected to further increase transmission rates.

I think you'll find that ECDC report relates to the whole of the EU. And yup restrictions have been rolled back btw. Atm Germany, Portugal and Germany are way ahead with regard stringency measures overall atm.

But yeah I agree - once we have the bulk of people vaccinated - we're flying.

CRI0ST0IR

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

Zebra3

CRI0ST0IR wrote: »

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

Get a younger lady!!

Relax brah

Zebra3 wrote: »

What difference does it make if the so-called opposition know in advance about the restrictions?

Whinging about irrelevant issues instead of doing their job.

Whinging about it on boards.ie will definitely fix the issues though lol

sydthebeat

CRI0ST0IR wrote: »

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

You could go and catch covid, prove you got better..... Jobs an oxo

Widdensushi

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Latvia for example I couldn't believe how drunk people were, I think Denmark was the place it seemed most people were drunk, Norway, less people but they get themselves in a worse state, I have never been to Germany but they have a reputation for being the country where people drink the most, could you specify some countries for discussion where you think they drink less than irish people.

Tiredandcranky

normanoffside wrote: »

This guy Mark, a private citizen, has had the models for months through FOI and critiqued them. He Has been tagging journos etc.
Now public mood has turned against the models the Journos are saying the models are secret because they haven’t been doing their work as journalists all along. They haven't been asking questions.

It does seem that our own modelling is questionable at best. Bear in mind they also got it horribly wrong at Christmas, when they advised we could open up. The new variant was shown to account for only a portion of the errors in modelling predictions there.

However, we shouldn’t throw baby out with bath water. The ECDC modelling is also predicting spikes in August and are specifically recommending we actually increase efforts to keep social distancing in place for unvaxed people i.e. young people I.e. don’t open the pubs!

pjohnson

daydorunrun wrote: »

Went to bed angry, woke up angry. Simply cannot believe after all the bull**** of ‘we’re all in this together’ over the last 18 months - the powers that be (and the government!) are going to introduce medical apartheid into this country. I am seriously doubtful I have the stomach to grow old in this here.
No government, no opposition, no hope.

Medical apartheid?

Doctor Jimbob

Heard discussions about all this on the radio this morning. During the time I was listening at least, there wasn't a single mention of antigen testing. A quote from Leo on the news about how the vaccine pass gives us a path to reopening. That would have been a perfect opportunity to push the point that other countries with these passes also accept antigen testing. Nothing. Not a fecking word. Our politicians and journalists are fecking spineless. Who is going to stand up to Holohan's nonsense agenda?

I'd support a pass that also allows testing. As it stands, the proposal excludes younger people and those who, for whatever reason, can't or don't want to get a vaccine. It's reprehensible.

agoodpunt

bear1 wrote: »

I can't believe that we are waiting to see what happens in the UK.
A place which is far less restrictive and with a far higher population.
We are such a docile people.

Maybe we can have the same crowd numbers at wembly in croker soon

paw patrol

is_that_so wrote: »

It is a Donnelly purview to dissolve NPHET. Leo will get rid of MM in 2023 when they move the deckchairs around.

hopefully so.
donnelly could redeem himself if ousted Tony H

eggy81

Relax brah wrote: »

That’s simply not true.

Yes it is.

Doctor Jimbob

agoodpunt wrote: »

Maybe we can have the same crowd numbers at wembly in croker soon

We'll have to do our own daft test events first because we are apparently incapable of learning from what happens in other countries.

KrustyUCC

Leo said on newstalk it's government policy to use antigen testing

Not that he'll go against Tony & NPHET and bring it in for indoor hospitality like in Denmark

Doctor Jimbob

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Leo said on newstalk it's government policy to use antigen testing

Not that he'll go against Tony & NPHET and bring it in for indoor hospitality like in Denmark

Good that he mentioned it, but it needs to be pushed more by both politicians and journalists. There's no excuse for not allowing it.

daydorunrun

CRI0ST0IR wrote: »

It's stupid to think now, that my girlfriend is fully vaccinated so she can sit in, eat and drink in a pub, but then I can't yet due to not in the age group. But I can still go into work every week and serve people inside but just can't sit down and have a drink?

What logic has gone into this idea at all...

You’ll simply be told that an offer of a vaccine will be with you shortly. Question is-
Is it then ok for both of ye to sit inside while anyone is left outside because of medical apartheid?

ThunbergsAreGo

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Heard discussions about all this on the radio this morning. During the time I was listening at least, there wasn't a single mention of antigen testing. A quote from Leo on the news about how the vaccine pass gives us a path to reopening. That would have been a perfect opportunity to push the point that other countries with these passes also accept antigen testing. Nothing. Not a fecking word. Our politicians and journalists are fecking spineless. Who is going to stand up to Holohan's nonsense agenda?

I'd support a pass that also allows testing. As it stands, the proposal excludes younger people and those who, for whatever reason, can't or don't want to get a vaccine. It's reprehensible.

Or that other people have been following this path for months?

And we have only gone for it so our unelected ayatollah can continue his crusade against booze

ArmaniJeanss

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Sounds like you barely left your hotel room.

Or perhaps he/she worked in these European cities during the week Monday to Friday. They can actually be close to dead, particularly in the centre from Sunday to Wednesday, pick up steam on Thursday and then be party central (way in excess of Ireland) on Friday and Saturday night.
A few times I've made a mistake by staying until Monday on a weekend break to take advantage of a cheap return flight, and had a dour Sunday evening.

stephenjmcd

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Heard discussions about all this on the radio this morning. During the time I was listening at least, there wasn't a single mention of antigen testing. A quote from Leo on the news about how the vaccine pass gives us a path to reopening. That would have been a perfect opportunity to push the point that other countries with these passes also accept antigen testing. Nothing. Not a fecking word. Our politicians and journalists are fecking spineless. Who is going to stand up to Holohan's nonsense agenda?

I'd support a pass that also allows testing. As it stands, the proposal excludes younger people and those who, for whatever reason, can't or don't want to get a vaccine. It's reprehensible.

And that would appear to be the crux of the matter for many people, it's the discriminatory element of it all.

For example I'll get dose 2 on the 21st July. the brother who's 23 will probably get dose 1 sometime in August with the increased vaccine options now to be available, however in the meantime, after I'm vaccinated, myself and my parents can go into the gastropub he works in, have a meal and a few drinks, he can serve us but he can't sit down with us, and then we all go back to the same house ???

Give me strength

daydorunrun

pjohnson wrote: »

Medical apartheid?

Is there a better term for discrimination due to medical status?

Ballynally

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yeah cause our drinking culture is so different to the UK which is fully open

Having lived in Belgium they love their sessions too

It's a BS excuse

I am from Holland. Having lived in Amsterdam i can tell you that the worst , most aggressive drinkers in the EU were the English, followed by the Scots.
If i'd see a group of them i'd give them plenty of space.
The Irish and Australians seem to have the craic and in general know how to party. The Dutch are actually closer to the English in drinking habits.
I blame it on assertiveness and colonialism. It comes with a level of agression the Irish flock mentality cannot match.

KrustyUCC

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Good that he mentioned it, but it needs to be pushed more by both politicians and journalists. There's no excuse for not allowing it.

TBF to Shane Coleman who I have very little time for, he did bring it up twice in the interview

Leo had to answer

It's mad that it isn't in already

Look at the example of Denmark

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2021/0622/1230778-denmark-ireland-euro-2020-covid-reopening/

hatrickpatrick

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

sydthebeat

daydorunrun wrote: »

Is there a better term for discrimination due to medical status?

Emmm... How about "discrimination"?

Apartheid is a pretty insulting word to use, when you consider people who actually suffer real apartheid

beggars_bush

Zebra3 wrote: »

Get a younger lady!!

Maybe she is in the vulnerable category

Anyway, I'm not surprised. Nphet have to do their job. Government will be criticised if they don't follow advice

Red Silurian

facehugger99 wrote: »

Is this the same SF that wanted more restrictions or a different version?

Or are they trying their usual fence-sitting and ditch-hurling?

No doubt it'll be lapped up by the brain-dead morons who vote for them either way.

The state of politics in this country has been been worse - it's a truly depressing landscape.

There is no political party worth voting for.

Source for your claim of SF wanting more restrictions?

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Where have they said this?

Apologies alot has gone on I probably missed this

No worries, threads gone a bit mad (in the good way) hasn't it?

See below

Red Silurian wrote: »

Haven't they?

SF: https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1409937375493505032
Labour: https://twitter.com/TheHardShoulder/status/1409942240521117704

Remember - all political parties have a by-election to fight on the 8th of July so news from the opposition on other issues might be slow

Could anybody in the Dublin Bay South constituency confirm if this is being discussed on the doorstep?

Klonker

gozunda wrote: »

But which bit do you mean exactly ?



I think you'll find that ECDC report relates to the whole of the EU. And yup restrictions have been rolled back btw. Atm Germany, Portugal and Germany are way ahead with regard stringency measures overall atm.

But yeah I agree - once we have the bulk of people vaccinated - we're flying.

I mean that they're not talking about the one or two countries that have all indoor closed, they're talking about the ones more open when they talk about further easing. Don't care what some stringency thing you link says, those countries are not as restrictive as Ireland and even when you do need a vaccine pass every single country accepts an antigen test too. But NPHET are against that, they have no leg to stand to now say we need vaccine certs.