Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

ThunbergsAreGo

Red Silurian wrote: »

Source for your claim of SF wanting more restrictions?



No worries, threads gone a bit mad (in the good way) hasn't it?

See below

Absolutely no position in them.

And I do think opposition with a defined positon on this would make a difference

VinLieger

Red Silurian wrote: »

Source for your claim of SF wanting more restrictions?



No worries, threads gone a bit mad (in the good way) hasn't it?

See below

Alan Kelly kinda has said it but Mary Lou has absolutely not said she is for opening of indoor dining in that tweet or at any other stage.

daydorunrun

sydthebeat wrote: »

Emmm... How about "discrimination"?

Apartheid is a pretty insulting word to use, when you consider people who actually suffer real apartheid

Point taken- I didn’t know until I just looked it up that apartheid is an Afrikaans term specifically referring to South Africa. No offence intended.

SnuggyBear

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

Excellent post. It's hard not to be bitter in this new world.

Rayne Wooney

The next step is for the Government to come up with a plan for allowing vaccinated people and those who have recently recovered from Covid-19 to dine and drink indoors, which they say will be devised by 19 July.

I’m guessing absolutely nobody in this country believes this nonsense from RTE/government.

They won’t have anything ready for the 19th, this is going to drag on now at least another 5 weeks.

If you are under 40 at the end of the month you can fly to the majority of countries in Europe and do whatever you want but when you return here you’ll be sitting outside a restaurant for weeks still using the same restroom as the vaccinated, being served by the unvaccinated.

Holohan should investigated for this not given the freedom of the city, the data they are working with has been shown up as completely delusional in the last couple of days.

Beanybabog

Imagine being a young person working in hospitality. Unemployed for a year, nothing to do, can’t see your friends, travel etc. Giving up everything that’s good about being young to protect other people from a virus most of them would shake off, and now being told they won’t be allowed to go to pubs or restaurants until they can get a vaccine, but they can’t get a vaccine because they’re at back of the queue, but they’ll be allowed work there to serve their vaccinated elders, those who have jobs and money and houses, while they work for minimum wage and risk getting covid while unvaccinated. F**k that.

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1409993588096765955

Expect ISAG to start pushing this as well

Klonker

I can't see Tony allowing the DCC to open for unvaccinated people either on the 19th July when it's supposed to start. He already advised against it a few weeks ago, he mentioned it again in his letter to government, what's the chances he won't have more projections on it closer to 19th July that scare the government? He's as much against travel as he is against alcohol so I can see him letting it happen.

1992ChainGang

Klonker wrote: »

I can't see Tony allowing the DCC to open for unvaccinated people either on the 19th July when it's supposed to start. He already advised against it a few weeks ago, he mentioned it again in his letter to government, what's the chances he won't have more projections on it closer to 19th July that scare the government? He's as much against travel as he is against alcohol so I can see him letting it happen.

Only thing with travel is the EU are insisting it goes ahead. But as far as I know they can push it back another 3 weeks, after that I think it needs to come in regardless. Thankfully

Red Silurian

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1409993588096765955

Expect ISAG to start pushing this as well

When they talk about full dismantling they mean no masks and no social distancing

Jinglejangle69

Beanybabog wrote: »

Imagine being a young person working in hospitality. Unemployed for a year, nothing to do, can’t see your friends, travel etc. Giving up everything that’s good about being young to protect other people from a virus most of them would shake off, and now being told they won’t be allowed to go to pubs or restaurants until they can get a vaccine, but they can’t get a vaccine because they’re at back of the queue, but they’ll be allowed work there to serve their vaccinated elders, those who have jobs and money and houses, while they work for minimum wage and risk getting covid while unvaccinated. F**k that.

The whole allowing vaccinated people in is flawed anyway.

As they have admitted there isn't enough data to know if vaccinated people don't carry and pass on the virus.

So what's the idea only allowing them indoors?

They could still get the virus and pass it to unvaccinated people working in a restaurant.

Or they could still catch it even if vaccinated and end up sick or in hospital. The vaccines aren't 100%.

Makes no sense.

starkid

Relax brah wrote: »

My job involved 4 days a week travelling Europe, I work in multicultural tech company and have done for the last 10 years.

I can assure you, the Irish drinking culture as a whole is on another level compared to most of Europe.

Clearly you didn't mix with the great unwashed too much.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Alcohol_consumption_statistics

Health experts would say the whole of the EU has an unhealthy attitude to alcohol.

The French for instance have some of the highest liver cancer deaths in the World because of their love of Red WIne. Red wine on soothers was a favourite of French mamas a bit like the whiskey on soothers here. Red wine gets you pissed much more mellower and slower (i'm a decade long red wine alcoholic) The old Irish/Anglo way of a pint and chaser was a firestorm in comparison. THose days are past really. We still binge too much granted, and rush our drinking into tight timeframes. But of course this is government policy due to some idiotic thinking.

So i'd argue its the culture of what we drink. In our case its actually declining but for a long time we would have been fueled by the wrong alcohol and different way of doing it.

Its hard to find accurate reports on Tony, but he did chair the alcohol thing a while back. i wonder does he drink. I'm not into conspiracies but it does seem plausible that a few of these experts think say losing 3 out of 10 pubs is a worthwhile cost while they try to fight a pandemic. its not a huge leap of logic. As i said the current consensus would be that most EU countries drink too much. if there was a great reset type of mindset anywhere, one of them could easily be alcohol. It causes nearly all cancers and has huge costs to economies and crime. IMO there should be a greater drive to old style lower percentage table beer like the olden days.

But some pubs have been shut for 469 days. a few more days and Joyces old puzzle (of crossing Dublin without passing a pub) becomes less true by the day. the days of a small town needing 5 or 6 pubs is probably over i'd imagine. Dublin's 751 or so pubs are going to be a dying breed by the time the nanny state mindset has indoctrinated people like my 12 year old. imo its inevitable. intentional or not this is one of the offshoots of the "war on covid" and what at times seems naievly, death. In saying that i was in town yesterday evening, places were packed. so the whole thing is pointless and idiotic.

lee_baby_simms

landofthetree wrote: »

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1409993588096765955

Expect ISAG to start pushing this as well

That will be the next bait and switch. NPHET will recommend children get jabbed once over 18s are done at the end of September. More pausing. More restrictions. 2021 officially a write off.

Sweet.Science

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/varadkar-hopes-nphets-covid-19-projections-are-wrong-admits-proposals-unfairon-young-people-40597317.html

LV basically calling their modelling bullsh!t

Northernlily

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

Well said. That generation have irked me for a long time. They don't understand or empathise with the challenges young people in 2021 face. This is the latest example.

They got greedy and are more asset rich than we ever will be.

VinLieger

Sweet.Science wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/varadkar-hopes-nphets-covid-19-projections-are-wrong-admits-proposals-unfairon-young-people-40597317.html

LV basically calling their modelling bullsh!t

As much as i think their modeling is bullsh1t thats a gross misrepresentation of what Vardkar said

ArmaniJeanss

1992ChainGang wrote: »

Only thing with travel is the EU are insisting it goes ahead. But as far as I know they can push it back another 3 weeks, after that I think it needs to come in regardless. Thankfully

My fear is that we could push for another exemption or even prefer to pay a token fine for not being ready (similar to the fine we pay for VRT?)

Sweet.Science

VinLieger wrote: »

As much as i think their modeling is bullsh1t thats a gross misrepresentation of what Vardkar said

No . He said it in a way only a politician can.

1992ChainGang

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

My fear is that we could push for another exemption or even prefer to pay a token fine for not being ready (similar to the fine we pay for VRT?)

Yeah, you couldnt put anything past them now at this stage

ThunbergsAreGo

I am surprised there hasnt been more talk of a protest

RobitTV

Varadkar is really struggling this morning, you really do wonder if he believe in the nonsense that comes from his mouth. He knows the government is on the ropes.

The next two weeks are going to be VERY interesting...

namloc1980

1992ChainGang wrote: »

Only thing with travel is the EU are insisting it goes ahead. But as far as I know they can push it back another 3 weeks, after that I think it needs to come in regardless. Thankfully

The Green Cert regulation gives Member States the rights to impose their own restrictions as they deem fit and to "step out" of the Green Cert process. This is because health policy is ultimately a Member State competency in the EU and not an EU competency:

13. Although this Regulation is without prejudice to Member States’ competence to impose restrictions to free movement, in accordance with Union law, to limit the spread of SARS-CoV-2, it should contribute to facilitating the gradual lifting of such restrictions in a coordinated manner whenever possible, in accordance with Recommendation (EU) 2020/1475.

55. To ensure coordination, the Commission and the other Member States should be informed when a Member State requires holders of certificates to undergo, after entry into its territory, quarantine or self-isolation or to be tested for SARS-CoV-2 infection, or if it imposes other restrictions on holders of such certificates

Don't bet against us being an outlier on the Green Cert like we are with indoor hospitality come the 19th July.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32021R0953&qid=1625042455003&from=EN

hatrickpatrick

On NPHET and Tony, I've been saying since last year that there was a risk of public health zealots using the pandemic as an excuse to try and socially engineer the country out of its love of the sesh, in a "sure we may as well replace the plumbing while we've the floor open for electrical re-wiring" kind of mission creep. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all. Holohan is on the record as wanting coercive measures to tackle Ireland's binge drinking culture from many years ago. It's not a massive stretch to assume a "kill two birds with one stone" mentality among some in his group, even if they'll never say it out loud.

bucketybuck

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

On NPHET and Tony, I've been saying since last year that there was a risk of public health zealots using the pandemic as an excuse to try and socially engineer the country out of its love of the sesh, in a "sure we may as well replace the plumbing while we've the floor open for electrical re-wiring" kind of mission creep. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all. Holohan is on the record as wanting coercive measures to tackle Ireland's binge drinking culture from many years ago. It's not a massive stretch to assume a "kill two birds with one stone" mentality among some in his group, even if they'll never say it out loud.

You will soon get called a conspiracy theorist..

But to be quite frank, I don't know how any sane adult can look at what has been allowed to happen in this country in the past 14 months and not come to the conclusion that something is very, very rotten in this countries governance.

Murph85

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

On NPHET and Tony, I've been saying since last year that there was a risk of public health zealots using the pandemic as an excuse to try and socially engineer the country out of its love of the sesh, in a "sure we may as well replace the plumbing while we've the floor open for electrical re-wiring" kind of mission creep. I don't think that's a conspiracy theory at all. Holohan is on the record as wanting coercive measures to tackle Ireland's binge drinking culture from many years ago. It's not a massive stretch to assume a "kill two birds with one stone" mentality among some in his group, even if they'll never say it out loud.

Whatever about drinking, why the hell is smoking still permitted in pubs and clubs. It should be totally banned on private premises... spending billions to avoid a handful of deaths and complicit in the deaths out thousands a year from smoking... hundreds die in Dublin every year prematurely from crap air quality...

Munstergirl854

Ballynally wrote: »

I am from Holland. Having lived in Amsterdam i can tell you that the worst , most aggressive drinkers in the EU were the English, followed by the Scots.
If i'd see a group of them i'd give them plenty of space.
The Irish and Australians seem to have the craic and in general know how to party. The Dutch are actually closer to the English in drinking habits.
I blame it on assertiveness and colonialism. It comes with a level of agression the Irish flock mentality cannot match.

Good points.
I've always thought the English drink the Irish under the table and not the other way round.

They also have a day drinking culture over there which we don't really have.Pubs packed on a Wednesday,Thursday, people having one on their lunch break while here in towns pubs might not open until evening time.

Wibbs

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't think the government have the slightest idea what a bad look this new policy is, in particular the fact that unvaccinated staff are free to work in hospitality but they won't be allowed to avail of it themselves. When you combine that with the fact that it's an obvious generational divide in terms of vaccination and the fact that there's such an obvious generational divide with regard to other major issues in society, housing being an obvious example, there is a perception - fairly or unfairly - that FFG are now governing entirely for their own target voting demographic and throwing literally everyone else to the wolves.

Or as a friend of mine put it yesterday, "young people can work incredibly hard in a difficult job with long hours and sh!t pay, taking the risk of catching the virus in the process, to facilitate old peoples' enjoyment of life - so that they can go home and hand over most of their earnings from this set-up to those same old people for the privilege of not being homeless".

Rightly or wrongly, this is the perception. Generational warfare in Ireland has largely been obscured under the myriad of individual issues it manifests as, but people are starting to join all of those dots together and come to an extremely bitter conclusion.

I'm not sure what this will or won't lead to societally, but it's a can of worms this government really should have thought through before introducing such a tone deaf and frankly obnoxious policy.

Well bloody said. This paranoid and fearful seige mentality over this virus is getting ridiculous now. It was 100% warranted when it kicked off and for most of last year, but the data is in; this virus is of vanishingly small threat to those under 40. They're more likely to die in a traffic accident on the way to the pub than from this pox. It's a pretty bloody small threat to those under 60 with it. The median mortality age for this virus is 83.

Now we're in a situation where the vast majority of those people who are vulnerable to ths virus are vaccinated, or close to it and we have better understandings of therapies managing the infected if they do end up hospitalised. Nobody's crying out for ventilators or pop up hospitals for the overflow(remember both of those concerns that transfixed us?). Summer 2021 is a very different place to summer 2020. We've buggered the economy and the lives of the young over this and we're going to see the hangover from those for quite a while. Mental health services are already overwhelmed far more than ICU's for Covid were.

Open up and none of that I vant to zee yur paperz gestapo ballsology to get into a cafe either. If the government doesn't have the spine, then the grass roots should say no more. Take the relevant precautions, masks for employees and basic common sense hygiene and so on and open up and sod the government and their Nphet advisors. IMHO the latter have gotten too used to the smell of their own farts and want to stay in the limelight and the politicians are as always looking to jostle for position so they can stay feeding at the trough come next election. Sod them both.

MOH

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As the Indo tells it, this all seems to be down to Micheal Martin being unable to make a decision himself, and Holohan - himself an arrogant dominating individual as we've seen in the pressers - taking advantage of this weak ineffectual man to push his agenda...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/scramble-to-save-summer-ministers-incensed-at-nphet-race-on-to-develop-vaccine-id-amid-shock-advice-40596602.html

.... It almost reads like an abusive relationship between them to be honest. One of them has to get out.

What about us? Won't somebody please think of the children?!

starkid

Murph85 wrote: »

Whatever about drinking, why the hell is smoking still permitted in pubs and clubs. It should be totally banned on private premises... spending billions to avoid a handful of deaths and complicit in the deaths out thousands a year from smoking... hundreds die in Dublin every year prematurely from crap air quality...

well thats the dangerous or in some cases progressive path/mindset all this leads down to.

150k people die every single day across the World. Many from avoidable accidents, murder, disease, crime, alcohol, toxicity caused by corporations, cancers caused by corporations etc. Its such a stupid mindset to focus on one thing.

Until we develop warp drive, or dark matter or whatever, people will die. thats the unfortunate reality of living. And knowing you will and that you can't prevent it, is the curse that humans were given above all other animals (for whatever reason *i'm an athiest).

Now personally i think some of the change in mindset is good. i always said to people whats the point in smoking bans when you're walking along the road sucking in diesel fumes from busses and trucks on any given day. eletric vehicles are the answer. 1.3 million people die in car accidents. i think in the future generations will look back at humans driving like we do smoking on airplanes or hospitals. "You did what?" they will say.

Obviously covid is transmissable which is the difference. however tonnes of cancers are caused by huge corporations and governments turning a blind eye for capitalist gains. personally as an anxiety ridden depressed person for decades, i don't get the focus on any one thing. there's a tonne of bad **** to go around. its educating, seeing highly functional people only starting to realise or accept this fact, now. unfortunately it could whip up some of the zealot in them as we are seeing with Tony Herohan.

TefalBrain

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

That will be the next bait and switch. NPHET will recommend children get jabbed once over 18s are done at the end of September. More pausing. More restrictions. 2021 officially a write off.

We just have to lockdown to protect the vulnerable,

oh hold on the over 60's

oh hold on the over 50's

oh hold on the over 40's

oh hold on the over 30's

oh hold on the over 20's

oh hold on the teenagers

oh hold on the under 13's

Did someone say new dangerous variant?

Just 2 more weeks.