Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Tchaikovsky

RobitTV wrote: »

LOL

Tubridy is attempting to cover his ass before the future backlash arrives

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1410161949044883464

He had a titter at the thought of the young lad asking his mother for her vaccination card before heading out.

Whatsisname

RobitTV wrote: »

https://twitter.com/robertburke84/status/1410138216582324230

I swear everyone has forgotten indoor hospitality opened last Summer without vaccines and any spike in infections. Why do people act like last Summer never happened?

Ten of Swords

TomsOnTheRoof threadban lifted following discussion with user

Doctor Jimbob

Red Silurian wrote: »

I don't like it but NPHET are the experts, and they are only giving their opinion and they might be wrong now but in the past they have been right!

At the same time I think we are at a point here where we are probably staring down the barrel of another lockdown this coming winter due to the influence from our neighbouring countries - and that will be regardless of what we do now.

So let's copy what our neighbours are doing and give the people of Ireland a bit of a breather in the mean time? If I'm wrong (and hopefully I am) then even better!

I think that was a fair enough viewpoint (and one I would have agreed with) back when NPHET were largely in line with experts in other countries. As it stands, they're looking increasingly out on their own. The stance on antigen testing defies all reason, and talk of indoor dining being pushed back until september seems unnecessarily negative.

We'll know for certain within a couple of weeks how serious delta is in the UK. Why not say "look, we're going to kep an eye on the UK to see how strong the link between hospitalisations/deaths and cases is. If that link is weak and there's no major risk to the population, we open on the 19th"?

charlie14

namloc1980 wrote: »

Months ago. Why are we testing again and not learning? The UK and other EU countries would be more than happy to share their data and learnings. Or are we special?

Well for a start the U.K have slowed their reopening as well due to the India variant, and neither they or any other country have any data on test events with this variant present.

namloc1980

Red Silurian wrote: »

I don't like it but NPHET are the experts, and they are only giving their opinion and they might be wrong now but in the past they have been right!

At the same time I think we are at a point here where we are probably staring down the barrel of another lockdown this coming winter due to the influence from our neighbouring countries - and that will be regardless of what we do now.

So let's copy what our neighbours are doing and give the people of Ireland a bit of a breather in the mean time? If I'm wrong (and hopefully I am) then even better!

They presented models to cabinet yesterday akin to a weather forecaster saying that the temperature tomorrow will be somewhere between -10 and +50 degrees and rain will range from 0mm to 1,000mm. If a meteorologist did that they'd be fired. Those models have seriously exposed their "expertise".

namloc1980

charlie14 wrote: »

Well for a start the U.K have slowed their reopening as well due to the India variant, and neither they or any other country have any data on test events with this variant present.

They've had crowds at Wembley and Hampden Park for matches for the last 2 and a half weeks. Has there been spikes associated with those? I'd like to see the data.

Whatsisname

charlie14 wrote: »

Well for a start the U.K have slowed their reopening as well due to the India variant, and neither they or any other country have any data on test events with this variant present.

Government knew about the variant on April 1st. April 23rd they put India on the red list. Test events ran from April 17th to May 15th.

titan18

charlie14 wrote: »

Well for a start the U.K have slowed their reopening as well due to the India variant, and neither they or any other country have any data on test events with this variant present.

You realise them slowing their reopening was them not opening nightclubs right? There's a big difference between their slowing down vs ours.

Ten of Swords

RobitTV wrote: »

https://twitter.com/robertburke84/status/1410138216582324230

A reminder for all posters - link dumping is not allowed.

If you're going to link to a twitter post or a news article at least provide a brief one-liner of either the content, or your thoughts/opinion on it. This has been happening more and more lately

charlie14

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I think that was a fair enough viewpoint (and one I would have agreed with) back when NPHET were largely in line with experts in other countries. As it stands, they're looking increasingly out on their own. The stance on antigen testing defies all reason, and talk of indoor dining being pushed back until september seems unnecessarily negative.

We'll know for certain within a couple of weeks how serious delta is in the UK. Why not say "look, we're going to kep an eye on the UK to see how strong the link between hospitalisations/deaths and cases is. If that link is weak and there's no major risk to the population, we open on the 19th"?

I would agree with your point of keeping an eye on the U.K. for the next few weeks and then base how we go forward on that data, but on the antigen testing I do not see how that would work. Self administered tests are highly unreliable so I don`t see how they could be acceptable.

Deusexmachina

RobitTV wrote: »

LOL

Tubridy is attempting to cover his ass before the future backlash arrives

https://twitter.com/EwanMacKenna/status/1410161949044883464

I never talk back to the car radio. It's totally ridiculous behaviour.

But I ROARED at the radio this morning when that skinny, smug, smarmy, super gay weight started up with his 'I feel for you but we must respect those who know better than us'

namloc1980

charlie14 wrote: »

I would agree with your point of keeping an eye on the U.K. for the next few weeks and then base how we go forward on that data, but on the antigen testing I do not see how that would work. Self administered tests are highly unreliable so I don`t see how they could be acceptable.

In Denmark they have 800 pop up test centres all around the country. That's how it works. Or use the already there network of nationwide pharmacies to do them. Easy stuff but no chance we do that in this country. Makes far too much sense.

Quags

https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1409990404657848325

Looks like the UK Gov are to drop the Vaccine Passport

timmyntc

charlie14 wrote: »

I would agree with your point of keeping an eye on the U.K. for the next few weeks and then base how we go forward on that data, but on the antigen testing I do not see how that would work. Self administered tests are highly unreliable so I don`t see how they could be acceptable.

Antigen tests are done in centers all over the place.
Pharmacies could administer them. Again, plenty of countries are doing this and have no trouble with it. It's only here in Ireland that we seem to make up a fictional scenario (self testing) and use that to justify not doing anything at all

Ballynally

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yes they can put additional restrictions at will.

55. To ensure coordination, the Commission and the other Member States should be informed when a Member State requires holders of certificates to undergo, after entry into its territory, quarantine or self-isolation or to be tested for SARS-CoV-2 infection, or if it imposes other restrictions on holders of such certificates.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32021R0953&qid=1625042455003&from=EN

Ouch! I stand corrected. Thanks.

charlie14

titan18 wrote: »

You realise them slowing their reopening was them not opening nightclubs right? There's a big difference between their slowing down vs ours.

They slowed down their reopening at a higher level of vaccination than we are presently at. They didn`t just open up Wembley to 45,000 supporters at lower levels off vaccination without holding test events first.

RobitTV

The UK is now considering dumping the 'vaccine pass'

And the morons here are going to spend the next two weeks trying to come up with something out of thin air.

gozunda

TomTomTim wrote: »

Shockingly, people don't like being coerced by the state into taking a vaccine that hasn't gone through any of the standard protocols, just so that they can have a sniff of freedom. You're rights aren't a contract, you are born with them, you aren't meant to have to do certain things to get them back, as it goes against the very nature of rights.

On a general point - that depends very much in where you are born - as to what "rights" you get to call your own

Atm we have temporary restrictions. They are not permanent.

Rights can change over time and new ones legislated for. Rights do however come with limits - for example my right to swing my fist - ends at your nose. But more importantly most rights come with obligations on a civil level for example I can drive down the motorway anytime I want - but I must do so safely and not endanger others.

That said there is no plan in place to force those who do not wish to take the vaccine - but those that don't will remain subject to relevant restrictions (or at least will be until all restrictions are removed) - whilst those that do - increasingly won't be subject to those restrictions. So yeah a bit of a conundrum for those who don't want to (or can't) get vaccinated.

Lucas Hood

RobitTV wrote: »

This is why I mentioned antigen testing. We need this in Ireland.

But people are getting antigen tested because they have to avail of the covid pass in barbers bars etc.

Do you really think the Danes would be getting tested as regularly if they didn't need to for the covid pass.

Both the pass and the antigen tests go hand in hand in Denmark.

charlie14

timmyntc wrote: »

Antigen tests are done in centers all over the place.
Pharmacies could administer them. Again, plenty of countries are doing this and have no trouble with it. It's only here in Ireland that we seem to make up a fictional scenario (self testing) and use that to justify not doing anything at all

I would still have doubts about their reliability, even when being carried out by a professional, so I`m not sure I would find those carried out by an employee in a pharmacy any more reliable tbh.

Russman

I think someone mentioned it on the previous thread before this one opened, but it would have been so much easier for NPHET to say something along the lines of:
"with this new Delta variant and its increased transmissibility, we don't think we have quite enough people vaccinated and need a few more weeks to get another half million jabs in arms before we think indoor drinking is safe" etc etc. All of which would seem relatively reasonable and a much easier sell to people imo, given the UK also slowed their reopening.

Now, granted, people would have then started whinging saying "show us the data, you can't say something like that without data bla, bla, Tony just hates something....." and we'd probably be back to where we are today anyway.

So we're still back to their modelling - is it cr^p or is it plausible ? bearing in mind the media have only focussed on worst case. Personally I'm not qualified to say their models are rubbish or not, but as an opinion, their "Optimistic" scenario seems not too outlandish. The worst case seems absolutely off the wall mad to me anyway.

Lucas Hood

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Which is a sensible system. If we have to implement something like this, why not use that system instead of the discriminatory bullshít being suggested here?

We look at the negatives of any system over the benefits.

Tony H is the most glass half empty person I've seen tbh.

timmyntc

charlie14 wrote: »

I would still have doubts about their reliability, even when being carried out by a professional, so I`m not sure I would find those carried out by an employee in a pharmacy any more reliable tbh.

Philip Nolan is that you?

The whole point of them is that they are fast, they do not have to be 100% accurate. Even if they only catch 50% of cases, thats 50% more than none.
The fast nature of them means we can do far far more, and would be testing people who otherwise would not be tested. Its no coincidence that countries employing antigen testing have lower case numbers than us. Widespread antigen testing breaks chains of transmission.

niallo27

charlie14 wrote: »

Months ago the U.K. had much higher levels of those vaccinated than Ireland and used test event before increasing attendance numbers. Much the same as we are doing now with 8,000 in Croke Park this Saturday.

charlie14 wrote: »

I would agree with your point of keeping an eye on the U.K. for the next few weeks and then base how we go forward on that data, but on the antigen testing I do not see how that would work. Self administered tests are highly unreliable so I don`t see how they could be acceptable.

Trying to make sense of these posts, your first post says we must use our own test results and not use data off the UK, and then you come out and say we keep an eye on the UK in the next few weeks and base how we go on that data. So good news from the UK, we will ignore that, possible bad news, lets follow that data.

pc7

It is just farcical at this stage, at this stage, myself, MrPC7 and my dad can eat indoors all vaccinated, but my mam would have to stand outside minding the kids (cause she only has 1 AZ and kids are young). You could NOT MAKE THIS SH!T Up!

Whatsisname

timmyntc wrote: »

Antigen tests are done in centers all over the place.
Pharmacies could administer them. Again, plenty of countries are doing this and have no trouble with it. It's only here in Ireland that we seem to make up a fictional scenario (self testing) and use that to justify not doing anything at all

Tbh, I only realised a while back that you don't do the test yourself in Ireland when my brother had to get tested. I've done 2 here in England, partner has done 2, both of us had to do it ourselves. Everyone else I know who's had a test over here had to do it themselves. These were PCR tests. You can order free antigen tests from the governments website, theres like 7 in a pack so obviously you do those yourself too.

PTH2009

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0630/1232137-coronavirus-ireland-latest/

Headline says it all

Translates to 'Were scared ****ness a repeat of Christmas and NPHET know best'

Government submitted with fear by NPHET

TomTomTim

gozunda wrote: »

On a general point - that depends very much in where you are born - as to what "rights" you get to call your own

Atm we have temporary restrictions. They are not permanent.

Rights can change over time and new ones legislated for. Rights do however come with limits - for example my right to swing my fist - ends at your nose. But more importantly most rights come with obligations on a civil level for example I can drive down the motorway anytime I want - but I must do so safely and not endanger others.

That said there is no plan in place to force those who do not wish to take the vaccine - but those that don't will remain subject to relevant restrictions (or at least will be until all restrictions are removed) - whilst those that do - increasingly won't be.

You're right, they do come with limits, but a limitation of a right is a balancing act. Two rights will be weighed against each other, then the most "just" will win. Here though, I don't see what rights are in competition. I'm sure some would say that it's the right to safety vs the right to freedom, but I don't know where people find this right to safety. We have rights to freedom, which are clear cut, and not implied; yet I can't say the same about safety.

titan18

charlie14 wrote: »

They slowed down their reopening at a higher level of vaccination than we are presently at. They didn`t just open up Wembley to 45,000 supporters at lower levels off vaccination without holding test events first.

What level of vaccination did they reopen at back in April and May. Do you remember the snooker finals back in April being packed as I do. We're not even close to where they are back then in regards reopening