Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Bsharp

funnydoggy wrote: »

Are ye following email templates or going straight from the heart? I would email but I'm shíte at articulating my thoughts, and I can't fill a few paragraphs of "arrrrrgggghhh" :pac:

I wish to express my dissatisfaction with you, and your party, for the quality of governance being provided.

My faith in Nphet being able to consider potential future scenarios that are within reasonable parameters is lost. Potential for over 700,000 cases and 2,000 deaths in 3 months from where we are now; inexplicable. Think of the sizes of towns and villages in Ireland to facilitate this level of transmission when vaccination, those with covid already, population dispersion and other restrictions such as WFH are in place. It doesn't stack up.

In addition, watching government kite flying, spin and mismanagement over the last several days means I've also lost faith in the government's ability to effectively guide us out of this in a sustainable way.

The fact that no alternatives had even been considered, and you're at the mercy of last minute decisions by NPHET, demonstrates how poorly you, as part of the government, is serving the public.

You can use that if you want

Quags

funnydoggy wrote: »

Are ye following email templates or going straight from the heart? I would email but I'm shíte at articulating my thoughts, and I can't fill a few paragraphs of "arrrrrgggghhh" :pac:

If anyone has a template could you please PM

gozunda

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

I just heard that those who have received only one dose of their vaccine can order a pint indoors but have to drink it outside

How's this for one...

The Netherlands have an unique system which involves the restaurant staff having to ask each and every customer a range of specific health check covid questions in order to quality as a bona fide customer. Potential customers who can't or won't provide negative answers are then asked to "stay at home"

•Have you had any of these symptoms in the past 24 hours: coughing, cold symptoms (sore throat, runny nose), high temperature (up to 38 degrees) or fever (38 degrees or higher), shortness of breath, loss of smell and/or taste?•Does anyone in your household have fever and/or shortness of breath?
•Do you have or have you had the coronavirus and has this been verified in a lab in the past 7 days?
•Are you in quarantine because a member of your household or a close contact has the coronavirus (confirmed)?
•Are you in quarantine because you have been in direct contact with someone who has the coronavirus?
•Are you in quarantine because you have returned from a country or region that has been named a COVID-19 risk area in the past 10 days?•Are you in quarantine because you received a notification from the Coronamelder app?

But wait here's the good bit ...

However staff cannot register any answers to the health check questions. They're also not allowed to ask these questions as part of an online reservation (this also counts as registering anwers). However its recommended that restaurants should register customers’ contact details but they need their consent for this. Customers may refuse to provide contact details.

I'd hate to work in hospitality there tbh. Kinda reminds me of this scene out of Pulp Fiction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBE2yiLEpho

TomSweeney

How will they justify winter lockdowns with the vaccination rates as they will be ?

Tacitus Kilgore

TomSweeney wrote: »

How will they justify winter lockdowns with the vaccination rates as they will be ?

They won't need to, they're going to activate the chips around xmas sure

GPoint

TomSweeney wrote: »

How will they justify winter lockdowns with the vaccination rates as they will be ?

That's an easy one, they will see dark clouds of vaccine resistant variant on the horizon.

Also don't forget that vaccines will not provide lifetime immunity, there was already talk about boosters so that will also be counted in.

PTH2009

TomSweeney wrote: »

How will they justify winter lockdowns with the vaccination rates as they will be ?

Variants

Tbh won't be to hard with the way there acting in the summer with low cases and hospital numbers

DSN

This is so depressing so they need 2-3 weeks to 'think' about things & maybe then only vaccinated persons can do this that or the other. With NO back up of the 'stark' numbers, NO plan, NO hope, NO independent thought. Where are all the projected 'deaths' coming from - all vulnerable & elderly who want it are vaccinated & so far the efficacies they were approved at are working - so what's the problem???

The young ones being told they might not even get to college next year, summer jobs from 5th related to indoor hospitality/tourism gone & now if they do open then they can work there but don't think you can partake yourselves!
But it's also **** for the elderly, some of them still very isolated, terrified to move out & they not crazy about eating outside (gets chilly!). we've a community cafe every sat in parish hall mainly attended by all the senior citizens due to reopen on 10th July - some outside seating but very little room. I really really hope they plough ahead with that as they were so looking forward to it. Least they have Mass
My local pub/rest was waiting until the 5th to open as don't have much workable outside space. If they have to police vaccination certs & turn away families & regulars because not vaccinated I cant see them opening this summer at all. Else they'll open & ignore that rule (fings crossed!)

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

How's this for one...

The Netherlands have an unique system which involves the restaurant staff having to ask each and every customer a range of specific health check covid questions in order to quality as a bona fide customer. Potential customers who can't or won't provide negative answers are then asked to "stay at home"



But wait here's the good bit ...

However staff cannot register any answers to the health check questions. They're also not allowed to ask these questions as part of an online reservation (this also counts as registering anwers). However its recommended that restaurants should register customers’ contact details but they need their consent for this. Customers may refuse to provide contact details.

I'd hate to work in hospitality there tbh. Kinda reminds me of this scene out of Pulp Fiction

...

So, if what you say is even true, they have a pointless system that allows hospitality businesses to open for indoor service, as opposed to us, who have a pointless system that doesn't.


Go Netherlands!

edit: hmmmmmm I think you should contact the Dutch government and tell them they need to update the information on their website as it seems vastly different from what you have said, by reference to what you have omitted (presumably you just didn't know about these additional measures they have put in place to allow for re-opening I mean you'd never have deliberately left them out of your post, no matter!):

https://business.gov.nl/regulation/corona-rules-hospitality-sector/

From this site:

Are you an entrepreneur in the Dutch hospitality sector? Restaurants, bars and other establishments need to follow certain rules during the corona crisis. Read what rules apply.

Night clubs and discotheques are allowed to reopen under specific circumstances. Furthermore, most restrictions for the hospitality sector have been lifted

. Businesses may be open during their regular opening hours. This also means that takeaway is allowed after 22:00 hours and you may serve alcohol after 22:00 hours again. Face masks are not required anymore provided everyone maintains 1.5 metres distance.

A few rules remain for restaurants, bars, terraces, coffeeshops, club canteens and other catering facilities:

Guests will have designated seating, they may have seats at the bar.
Guests maintain 1.5 metres distance.
You perform health checks on your visitors and ask them to register.
You may receive as many visitors as you can host with 1.5 metres distancing.
If you use a corona entry pass system, you may receive visitors at full capacity. Guests are not required to maintain 1.5 metres distance and you do not need to allocate seating.
So-called cough screens or hygiene screens may be installed if it is not possible to maintain 1.5 metres distance between tables on your terrace.
Entertainment is allowed.
Everyone should follow the basic rules

.
You ask your employees to test themselves twice a week, but you may not force them.

Patser

Nephew's communion cancelled with 3 days notice, a lot of very unhappy parents as 'tags have been cut off ' suits and dresses in preparation and who knows how tall they'll be by time this is rearranged.

finalfurlong

DSN wrote: »

This is so depressing so they need 2-3 weeks to 'think' about things & maybe then only vaccinated persons can do this that or the other. With NO back up of the 'stark' numbers, NO plan, NO hope, NO independent thought. Where are all the projected 'deaths' coming from - all vulnerable & elderly who want it are vaccinated & so far the efficacies they were approved at are working - so what's the problem???

The young ones being told they might not even get to college next year, summer jobs from 5th related to indoor hospitality/tourism gone & now if they do open then they can work there but don't think you can partake yourselves!
But it's also **** for the elderly, some of them still very isolated, terrified to move out & they not crazy about eating outside (gets chilly!). we've a community cafe every sat in parish hall mainly attended by all the senior citizens due to reopen on 10th July - some outside seating but very little room. I really really hope they plough ahead with that as they were so looking forward to it. Least they have Mass
My local pub/rest was waiting until the 5th to open as don't have much workable outside space. If they have to police vaccination certs & turn away families & regulars because not vaccinated I cant see them opening this summer at all. Else they'll open & ignore that rule (fings crossed!)

Your last line is what may ensue-irish solution to an irish problem

Father Hernandez

pc7 wrote: »

The emails and phone calls must be kicking in, he's getting worried. Come on people make some noise.

I have sent an email just now to a number of TD's in my local constituency as well as those in power.

Nice to be able to express myself directly to them in a fairly dignified way even if they don't read it or I get no email back.

I'm beyond angry at the moment and none of the further restrictions make sense - I'm youngish (not been able to register for the vaccine) so feel we're getting screwed but in real terms, everyone is.

I said previously I've never been to a protest before, if there is one being organised by the bars/restuarants this weekend, I'll be going. And speaking to friends/family, there are many in the same boat.

I just find it bonkers how gov is going along with 700k cases and 2k deaths, it's fantasy stuff yet whatever NPHET says goes. They are running the country as admitted yesterday. At a loss tbh and I don't even work in hospitality. Must be awful for them.

finalfurlong

Patser wrote: »

Nephew's communion cancelled with 3 days notice, a lot of very unhappy parents as 'tags have been cut off ' suits and dresses in preparation and who knows how tall they'll be by time this is rearranged.

A good example of attitude was the 2 word answer glibly given by varadker yesterday-"they re off"Bishop of waterford on today more or less saying parishes can decide.Proper order.Micro managing and over reaching by nphet and so called govt a disgrace.GUBU beyond belief.

bucketybuck

finalfurlong wrote: »

Your last line is what may ensue-irish solution to an irish problem

Goes without saying that the entire country should not have to find workarounds just because one man is scared of Tony Holohan.

B2021M

Bsharp wrote: »

I wish to express my dissatisfaction with you, and your party, for the quality of governance being provided.

My faith in Nphet being able to consider potential future scenarios that are within reasonable parameters is lost. Potential for over 700,000 cases and 2,000 deaths in 3 months from where we are now; inexplicable. Think of the sizes of towns and villages in Ireland to facilitate this level of transmission when vaccination, those with covid already, population dispersion and other restrictions such as WFH are in place. It doesn't stack up.

In addition, watching government kite flying, spin and mismanagement over the last several days means I've also lost faith in the government's ability to effectively guide us out of this in a sustainable way.

The fact that no alternatives had even been considered, and you're at the mercy of last minute decisions by NPHET, demonstrates how poorly you, as part of the government, is serving the public.

You can use that if you want

Thats a well put together email and sums things up nicely.

On a separate point there really needs to be focus on the 700,000 figure. It would seem highly likely that it was included to frighten the govt into following the advice to the letter.

I would like to know:
When was the work on the model commenced?
The team and process involved
Who reviewed the outputs and when?

finalfurlong

bucketybuck wrote: »

Goes without saying that the entire country should not have to find workarounds just because one man is scared of Tony Holohan.

Totally agree buckety buck.However yesterdays craven display is final proof that Martin wants the trappings superficially of "leadership" but does not have the slightest intention of performing the duties to the people of this country that leadership requires

bear1

Maybe every pub should stick some bunk beds inside their premises and then apply for a hotel or hostel licence

Royale with Cheese

Sofa King Great wrote: »

The call to disband NPHET is a bit ridiculous. Whether we like it or not, there is still a global pandemic going on.


What does need to happen however is their scope needs to change and be tightened. They need to be forbidden from doing interviews (I would be sacked if I did an interview or made any comment to the press in my job), they need to have more transparency in their decision making process (peer reviews, publication of data through proper channels) and most of all, their leadership needs to change. It is obvious that there are major issues between Tony et al and the members of Cabinet

All of that was true last October (hell even last summer when Tony used his own twitter account to go on a personal crusade to stop any foreign travel in complete contradiction to what the fúcking elected government of the country were saying about it) and nothing was done about it. They've only got worse and MM has handed full reign of the country over to them. There is no saving or restructuring NPHET, they're rotten at the core and need to go. There may still be a global pandemic going on but they're not helping the country deal with that so what is the point in keeping them around?

I said last October you could replace NPHET with a magic 8 ball that just answered level 5 lockdown to every question you asked it. Take out the level 5 part and the same is still true today.

aziz

finalfurlong wrote: »

A good example of attitude was the 2 word answer glibly given by varadker yesterday-"they re off"

That is frankly a disgusting comment and he should be ashamed of himself

namloc1980

TomSweeney wrote: »

How will they justify winter lockdowns with the vaccination rates as they will be ?

Philip Nolan and his magic excel spreadsheet will spew out some doom and gloom.

M_Murphy57

b0nk1e wrote: »

Five steps to reforming NPHET:

1. You can be a media star or an NPHET member, not both.
2. No more than one NPHET member from the same organisation (there are currently 24 members who work in just two offices).
3. Nobody may serve on NPHET for more than three months at a time.
4. NPHET members' salaries suspended during any period in which they advise any sector of the economy to be banned.
5. NPHET meetings to be recorded and made publicly available. No more sneaking back from leave to undermine the elected government.

Please please please can we implement this.

thebronze14

https://www.facebook.com/events/401627094524804/?acontext=%7B%22event_action_history%22%3A[%7B%22mechanism%22%3A%22search_results%22%2C%22surface%22%3A%22search%22%7D]%2C%22ref_notif_type%22%3Anull%7D

Not sure if the link works but seems like the first I've heard of a protest. Monday 2pm

aziz

b0nk1e wrote: »

Five steps to reforming NPHET:

1. You can be a media star or an NPHET member, not both.
2. No more than one NPHET member from the same organisation (there are currently 24 members who work in just two offices).
3. Nobody may serve on NPHET for more than three months at a time.
4. NPHET members' salaries suspended during any period in which they advise any sector of the economy to be banned.
5. NPHET meetings to be recorded and made publicly available. No more sneaking back from leave to undermine the elected government.

And maybe have one deputy CMO, not six

Tchaikovsky

Let's all make sure that Tony is first to be voted off Dancing with the Stars next year, that'll show him.

1992ChainGang

1992ChainGang wrote: »

Heard Michael on the news there saying he's open to alternatives... first signs of backtracking hopefully

I presume he means alternatives that NPHET recommend.

Ballynally

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

All of that was true last October (hell even last summer when Tony went on a personal crusade to stop any foreign travel in complete contradiction to what the fúcking elected government of the country were saying about it) and nothing was done about it. They've only got worse and MM has handed full reign of the country over to them. There is no saving or restructuring NPHET they're rotten at the core and need to go. There may still be a global pandemic going on but they're not helping the country deal with that so what is the point in keeping them around?

That's it. Im going back to Holland asap and have my chips and mayo in my favourite pub in the Jordaan w me dutch mates.
Oh, btw, mr Royale. In Holland there are basically 5 options to go w chips: 1 mayo, 2 ketchup, 3 mayo+ketchup, 4, mayo, ketchup and onions (speciaal),5 mayo and peanut sauce (oorlog/war). Delicious!

gozunda

ecoli3136 wrote: »

So, if what you say is even true, they have a pointless system that allows hospitality businesses to open for indoor service, as opposed to us, who have a pointless system that doesn't.
Go Netherlands!

edit: hmmmmmm I think you should contact the Dutch government and tell them they need to update the information on their website as it seems vastly different from what you have said, by reference to what you have omitted (presumably you just didn't know about these additional measures they have put in place to allow for re-opening I mean you'd never have deliberately left them out of your post, no matter!):...

Lol. So you don't believe me or is it no sense of humour? No matter :pac:

But nope and you're incorrect. See below for full details of what was posted if you don't want to believe anyone. Btw you seem to have jumped straight over the relevant "You perform health checks on your visitors and ask them to register" link in your text dump.

https://business.gov.nl/regulation/corona-health-checks/

And as much as I like to write an entire essay for you on every single nuance of the Dutch system - the comment was simply a reply regarding health checks to a previous skit And no I still pity anyone having to work with that...

But you know that already...

agoodpunt

since the yesterday haven heard 1 person support the discission and none of them are in the businesses effected
delta mehole

M_Murphy57

Please let this be the start of these ****ing idiots backpedaling their way out of this. Almost makes it sound like the "pause" was part of a carefully laid plan

https://www.thejournal.ie/hospitality-antigen-testing-5481608-Jun2021/

"OTHER MEASURES SUCH as antigen testing and ventilation will be looked at by government in a bid to get indoor hospitality reopened.

They pointed out that government is deviating from NPHET advice when it comes to international travel and it can do so again on antigen testing.

The pause for a few weeks is being seen as an appropriate time for the government to assess how thins pan out in Scotland and Britain when it comes to the Delta variant"

bear1

Jesus