Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031388#Comment_118031388

Always strikes me that they want to leave these grand statements for certain journalists or publications. 'Ah sure, I'm talking to x on Saturday, they'll write a favourable article in Sundays paper for me'. Meanwhile,for days on end, everyone else is in a panic, second guessing whats really going on.

CorkRed93

the behaviour is shambolic. dont know how any of these business owners that'll be most effected by restrictions can cope. constantly moving the goalposts. they can give as much notice as they like for reopening but theres always something last minute. Willie O'Dea said "if we don’t ease restrictions next Friday when will we??" and hes correct. Never thought id see the day where I agree with him

Richard Hillman

Do you need a vaccine passport to go to a hotel or to use hotel bars?

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031200#Comment_118031200

How do you know they would disagree?

US2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031441#Comment_118031441

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031425#Comment_118031425

I hope you're right, but whenever they rule something out I think of when football clubs say that the manager "has our full support", and then, sure enough, they sack him a few days later. In England those ministers were falling over themselves ruling out those passports while the very passports they were ruling out were in advanced development. O'Neill in Northern Ireland said that they didn't want to introduce vaccine passports. When she said that I knew they did. And sure enough businesses are being encouraged to ask for them. Voluntary for now.

Isn't it amazing to think that not too far away in Sweden life is back to normal while this place is on its latest "knife-edge"? The main airline there, SAS, even ditched masks the other day for flights within Scandinavia. While in this place people are trying to justify vaccine passports, and all the other restrictions, with almost the entire population vaccinated.

I think in England they are just more accepting of death and accept people will unfortunately die from this, but the large majority will be ok and life needs to carry on.

Im going home in a couple of weeks and looking forward to it. Whilst England shouldn’t be held up as some beacon as to how COVID should have been handled, in my opinion their plan at this stage is the right one.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030084#Comment_118030084

Just going by those deaths of 369 people between April1st. and October 9th 2021 where 169 were not vaccinated and 155 were fully vaccinated as some kind of proof that vaccines do not work is similar to walking in half way through a conversation and getting the context wrong. If all things were equal and 50% of the population was vaccinated and the other 50% not, then it would be correct. But that is not the case.

To keep the mathematics simple we have 4 million of an adult population. 90% vaccinated (3.6 million) 10% unvaccinated (400,000).Between those two dates 155 vaccinated out of 3.6 million died, whereas 169 unvaccinated out of 400K died. That shows that proportionately someone has a 9 to10 times greater risk of dying from not being vaccinated.

Beechwoodspark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031225#Comment_118031225

My thoughts exactly. England and the UK has handled the pandemic terribly.

agoodpunt

Its getting cold out there in the city this weekend bars with seating outside where only offering seating there and those without inside was by appointment so thats likely to continue while most of EU and the UK are back to normal all because the have a functioning healtcare system sums it up.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031458#Comment_118031458

If only we had all been Sweden and chased natural herd immunity until we realised it was a dream with no basis in reality and forced its abandonment, then everything would be rosy. Compared to the rest of Scandinavia that used lockdown Sweden`s deaths are off the wall..

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030518#Comment_118030518

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence

Hitchens Razor

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031441#Comment_118031441

No.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031528#Comment_118031528

Well, you do need evidence to show that it is not backed up by evidence first before you dismiss it!

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031465#Comment_118031465

Too simplistic, the entire 90% haven't been vaccinated since April. That's why the person above is looking at just September onwards, i.e. A time in which the proportion of vaccinated hasn't changed much

darconio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031465#Comment_118031465

We can turn the numbers upside down and we can see them from different prospective depending on what we want to demonstrate, me included I cannot deny it. For example that calculation you made cannot be taken into consideration because we started having 90% of vaccinated only recently. Instead I could give you another example of numbers interpretation : between the 11th of September and the 9th of October we had 118 Deaths, 20 unvaccinated, 98 received at least 1 dose, 94 were fully vaccinated. That's nearly 80% of death being double jabbed.

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031533#Comment_118031533

No. It is up to Chris to show his evidence.

Apologies in advance of you were being ironic.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031571#Comment_118031571

You're claiming that he has none but that's all based on your beliefs which could be equally unbacked by evidence. Not a Hitchens thing, a pretty numpty smug aphorism IMO, it's just a poster demanding evidence they could easily find themselves. Always a better option to show why!

Fr0g

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031588#Comment_118031588

No. Tho onus is on Chris to show his evidence before anyone demands that it be refuted with evidence. You can't argue against someone's belief. Show your evidence and I will refute it.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031549#Comment_118031549

The principle is still the same. With those figures you are still twice as likely to die from not being vaccinated.

PTH2009

That interview from MM is a little confusing and practically states no further lifting next Friday

3Arena and the likes won't reopen

Same pub hours as now with late bars/nightclubs not reopening

Don't forget the big cheese Dr Tony returns to the office tomorrow and a repeat of last October can not be ruled out

Dont look at the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated deaths in the passed month, youll all be chasing your tails. Look at the profiles of them. The unvaxed died with covid and the vaxed died with covid and with a vaccine. They were very compromised ill bet or had underlying or UNdiagnosed underlying issues. Theres a huge surge of non covid respiratory issues presenting in hospitals at present so thats alot of dirty hands alot of transfer on doors, keyboards and pens and stethescopes etc. Alot of microbes carried in warm swirling convection currents all upto ICU. This happened prior to covid and this is what we see now..died with covid..died with covid and vaccinated. Both groups very old and very frail. The finger pointing needs to stop. Dont do the politicians work for them. We should demand profiles, ages etc or this forum is a he said, shes said of DISinformation not misinformation.

stephenjmcd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031759#Comment_118031759

I've no idea how you've picked that up from that interview, there's absolutely nothing in the Independent or it's interview that gives credence to anything for next Friday.

There's feck all meat on the bones of that article when you compare it to the times or the business post

bucketybuck

Everybody talking about "vaccine passports" as if it was normal.

Here are three things that most genuine people would accept as true:

• Vaccines lower but do not prevent transmission
• The vast, vast majority of people are already vaccinated
• Most places don't and won't check for vaccine certs anyway

With those points in mind I would love for somebody to tell me in 20 words or less, what is it that covid vaccine certs are supposed to achieve?

What is the goal of covid certs?

DebDynamite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031809#Comment_118031809

To encourage the unvaccinated to get vaccinated, I would guess. The unvaccinated are causing the problems in the hospitals and ICU, and that is the big concern for the government / HPHET / HSE coming into winter.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031465#Comment_118031465

I suppose the real problem is that despite the older age groups being almost fully vaccinated, getting Covid for the over 70s and particularly the over 80s remains a very serious thing, even if they are fully vaccinated. The immune system tends to wear down in those older age groups and the vaccine depends on the immune system to be effective. So even if the vaccines are in general a miracle shot for older people, the chances of them not working among older people are greater than the not working among younger age groups.

Therefore the responsibility has to be on all of us to keep Covid down. If we don't, there will be a significant amount of Covid deaths among older people. This is what the UK is experiencing at the moment.

It's also why rolling out the boosters ASAP is so important.

I think we need to have a serious discussion about endemicity versus elimination. Everything I see says endemicity is the wrong approach which will have long lasting negative consequences.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118027426#Comment_118027426

The vaccine has been proven to be ineffective now? Pray tell how did you come to that conclusion? Considering how free and open our society is now by comparison to this time last year and our case numbers we have I'd argue the vaccines are doing their thing

But then I'm not an anti-vaxer

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031809#Comment_118031809

They are to achieve division and to make the self righteous feel good about themselves.

Ah_well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031809#Comment_118031809

I don’t think people really want Covid certs for admission to premises . Well most don’t im sure some do but it’s better than things not being reopened at all . Not for the unvaccinated I accept but isn’t it better to have things open for 90 percent of people than not having them open at all. At least then only 10 percent of people are left disappointed.I know that’s a selfish way to look at it from a vaccinated persons point of view but after 19 months of this shitshow I’m willing to accept it. It’s divisive I know and not ideal by any means but it beats continued closures

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118031846#Comment_118031846

We had less restrictions this time last year in some ways (e.g. Hospitality was open with no covid cert), zero people vaccinated, but fewer daily cases/hospitalisations/deaths. Things worsened into November and will again this year.