Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

irishproduce

Surely it's been pointed out already that the restricting indoor dining to vaccinated people, is a tool to force younger people who weren't bothering with the vaccine, to now go and get it.
Legally it won't stand up. But it doesn't have to, it just has to hold water long enough to get a sizeable group of under 35s to get the jab.

bear1

Just adding to it as well, can the president do absolutely anything about this or are these two eejits the ones that can actually call all the shots?

gozunda

titan18 wrote: »

Exactly, so it's outdated.

Nope. The information wasn't available when the model was sent to the government. Its still not available.

The HSE and the government has yet to draft and agree an implementation plan for the changes in NIAC additional J&J & AZ vaccine recommendations for the under 40s

So unless mindreading or Crystal ball gazing is a thing - then no at the time and even now - the model is not outdated.

Red Silurian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll keep saying it, the Vintners and Restaurants should be saying "We're opening as scheduled come what may" and just see what happens.

A local pun landlord is fairly high up in one of the government parties. Pretty sad to see him show more loyalty to his party than his country or even to his family and staff.

I suggested earlier that every pub and restaurant should close their current outdoor situation from Monday in solidarity! Both suggestions are good but have the same flaw

Another suggestion is to put on film 4 on the telly in a pub or restaurant and hey presto your premises is now a cinema that serves beer

Also what if your wedding afters is being held in a pub or restaurant instead of a hotel? What if the bride wants no fuss and slightly more casual wear? What proof do you need that it's an actual wedding?

MOR316

irishproduce wrote: »

Surely it's been pointed out already that the restricting indoor dining to vaccinated people, is a tool to force younger people who weren't bothering with the vaccine, to now go and get it.
Legally it won't stand up. But it doesn't have to, it just has to hold water long enough to get a sizeable group of under 35s to get the jab.

What if someone under 35 wants to go to a country like America, who is not accepting anyone with the AZ vaccine in their system, for a week away and they refuse on that basis?

It would be lunacy to make them get the AZ

ACitizenErased

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. The information wasn't available when the model was sent to the government. Its still not available.

The HSE and the government has yet to draft and agree an implementation plan for the changes in NIAC additional J&J & AZ vaccine recommendations for the under 40s

So unless mindreading or Crystal ball gazing is a thing - then no at the time and even now - the model is not outdated.

Stop will ya. Donnelly literally said he expects all fully vaccinated by end of August. The model is outdated.

For Forks Sake

bear1 wrote: »

Just adding to it as well, can the president do absolutely anything about this or are these two eejits the ones that can actually call all the shots?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#part3

MOR316

Red Silurian wrote: »

I suggested earlier that every pub and restaurant should close their current outdoor situation from Monday in solidarity! Both suggestions are good but have the same flaw

Another suggestion is to put on film 4 on the telly in a pub or restaurant and hey presto your premises is now a cinema that serves beer

Also what if your wedding afters is being held in a pub or restaurant instead of a hotel? What if the bride wants no fuss and slightly more casual wear? What proof do you need that it's an actual wedding?

What happens if someone gives you their Vaccine card? Who is going to stop you?
What's to stop you saying you had Covid a few months back?

It's absolutely ridiculous

gozunda

normanoffside wrote: »

Or seasonality.

So you keep saying. The WHO are out on that apparently

https://twitter.com/UNGeneva/status/1288100372091932674?s=20

MrMusician18

MOR316 wrote: »

And tell me...

What's your opinion on the musicians, artists, performers, actors and comedians who have been out of work since March 2020, who needs the bars, pubs, clubs and theatres to perform and to earn a living...

Should they get a grip too? Or do you not care about them because you're happy?

Who said I'm happy? I'm not, but I'm a realist too. The experts have advised government that we will have another wave sooner if we relax further. They are the experts and I'm not and I have no reason to believe that they are falsifying or exaggerating their research.

Pretending to care about other sectors is disingenuous btw. Few things quite as disgraceful to use the plight of others for your own ends.

beaz2018

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What exactly is irresponsible about restricting indoor hospitality to the vaccinated. I am genuinely having trouble understanding why this is considered a huge imposition (aside of course from the numerous cranks on thread who use any chink or crack to wedge their lever of opposition in).

I love the pub and the restaurant, probably more than most, but jaysus I'll live without sitting inside for a few more weeks (or months if required) until my turn comes around.

People need to get a grip here.

They won’t be open in 2021. Wake up

castletownman

Email sent to my local TD's. Bits and pieces changed to reflect the various parties. One below was to a SF TD.

Dear deputy,

I am writing to you to convey my disappointment and downright bewilderment at the government's completely unfounded decision to delay re-opening of the hospitality industry.

Bearing in mind that this is the industry that has suffered more than any other in the country, except for perhaps the aviation industry which you haven't exactly supported either, it is truly baffling how you yet again bow to the "expertise" of NPHET, especially when their new data is fanciful in the extreme, and ties into the general fear-mongering stance taken by the wider national media. Remember too that the likes of Tony Holohan (he of Cervical Check infamy) and Philip Nolan are completely dismissive of something like Antigen testing, which has proven very useful in other countries in trying to get back to normality.

Allow me to use one example of the ludicrous situation that is proposed that I heard doing the rounds today: in this tiered, discriminatory setting, young, unvaccinated people cannot dine indoors yet would be expected to work in the same setting.

And it has since emerged that the Taoiseach wrongly told the Cabinet that updated vaccine advice from NIAC was factored into NPHET's Delta forecast. So basically, the decisions taken on Tuesday were based on outdated data. If that happened in a business, it would be an immediate sacking offence.

It's the end of the road as far as I am concerned in supporting this government, and I don't even have a skin in the hospitality game (apart from wanting to be able to have a relatively normal life like the rest of the EU). It's notable how quiet your party as the opposition have been since Day One of the pandemic, surprising considering all the trumpet blowing in count centres around the country. There really is no point in voting anymore as the general populace is being ignored.

Enough is enough. The real public health emergency is still to arrive in a post-Covid world.

Feels great being a pain in the hole

bear1

For Forks Sake wrote: »

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#part3

So sweet shag all then.

MOR316

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Pretending to care about other sectors is disingenuous btw. Few things quite as disgraceful to use the plight of others for your own ends.

And tell me, how do you know who I am and what I do for a living and how this whole thing has affected me?

Have a seat son, you ain't got a clue. As I said previously, your assumptions aren't doing you any favours

Analogs daughter

gozunda wrote: »

So you keep saying. The WHO are out on that apparently

https://twitter.com/UNGeneva/status/1288100372091932674?s=20

That video is from July 2020? When we hadn't even gone through a proper winter of Covid. How could they even comment on the seasonality of it then?

I suppose the outbreaks in all the major metropolitan areas of Australia is just coincidental to them being in the middle of Winter

On top of everything, surely asking people for their confidential health information is a data protection issue? Wasnt there a recent issue with employers and vaccine passports and how its a big data protection no-no?

MOR316

This from 2010 certainly explains a lot...Probably posted before. Apologies if so

https://alcoholireland.ie/dr-tony-holohan-chief-medical-officer-delivers-the-opening-address-at-alcohol-action-irelands-have-we-bottled-it-alcohol-marketing-and-young-people-conference/

gozunda

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Stop will ya. Donnelly literally said he expects all fully vaccinated by end of August. The model is outdated.

What's got to do with claims the model was outdated exactly?


I could ask you the exact same thing. Simply The data is not there to input into the model regarding rollout of the additional vaccines.

Easy enough to rerun once that information is available.

Ballynally

Ballynally wrote: »

I quoted something from an actual report. It was one of the downloads offered in the link within the tweet.
I deliberately took the most technical one having sufficient knowledge of these matters.
You know pretty quick if something is presented clear and coherently.
Neither seems to be the case.

Btw, the report was from february 2021.SEIR model scenarios.
After that, there are only files from april, nothing after that.
I cannot trace any recent data links on which a model might be based.
Nothing via the links presented in the tweet.

ACitizenErased

gozunda wrote: »

What's got to do with claims the model was outdated exactly?


I could ask you the exact same thing. Simply The data is not there to input into the model regarding rollout of the additional vaccines.

Easy enough to rerun once that information is available.

I can't tell if you're on a wind-up or not. NPHET knew Monday that NIAC were going to recommend the vaccines for U40s. And they also knew very well cabinet would not reject the recommendation.

Data was then presented to cabinet without that information included or modelled. There should have been scenarios included which factored in full vaccination of the population by August. What was shown to cabinet was a scenario where full vaccination of the population was not completed until September or October, as per previous projections.

Data was outdated, simple as.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Who said I'm happy? I'm not, but I'm a realist too. The experts have advised government that we will have another wave sooner if we relax further. They are the experts and I'm not and I have no reason to believe that they are falsifying or exaggerating their research.

Pretending to care about other sectors is disingenuous btw. Few things quite as disgraceful to use the plight of others for your own ends.

The experts whose data models are outdated???? Tell me, how is it our experts are better than the rest of Europe???? And yet still managed to put nursing home patients in danger??? Your desperately scrambling for a defence now. Your type are all the same. Superiority complex (somehow) because you are blindy following failure. Never any coherent argument. Always trying to character assassinate in order to make your point instead of providing evidence to the contrary

MrMusician18

beaz2018 wrote: »

They won’t be open in 2021. Wake up

I could've swore I had a delicious pint at my local pub last Saturday. Did I imagine that??

Leftwaffe

Anyone know if Christenings are still going ahead?

Fils

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Anyone know if Christenings are still going ahead?

No but you can eat in the hotel afterwards.

naughtysmurf

Thespoofer wrote: »

Guys a bit off topic and just a bit of an observation from around areas I work/live.

I've noticed more and more pubs ( non restaurant/no beer garden ) opening and serving away clearly had enough now.

I've even seen the guards driving past the pubs with the front door open and just drive on,,,clearly people have had enough now and theres a silent revolt now going on.

Indoor dining has been happening for months, long before June 2nd, two hotels in the Midwest, one 4* one 3* I can 100% confirm have been allowing indoor dining & (insert preferred beverage here) for non residents, just stroll in & enquire about a table. I’d be amazed if this isn’t country wide to some extent

If people think that all rural pubs or pubs in quiet coastal areas with little or no Garda presence aren’t operating to some extent for locals not visitors or day trippers, you’re wrong

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I could've swore I had a delicious pint at my local pub last Saturday. Did I imagine that??

Outdoors... unless your pub has opened its indoor facilities prematurely.

MOR316

Leftwaffe wrote: »

Anyone know if Christenings are still going ahead?

You misspelled Christmas...

gozunda

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I can't tell if you're on a wind-up or not. NPHET knew Monday that NIAC were going to recommend the vaccines for U40s. And they also knew very well cabinet would not reject the recommendation.

Data was then presented to cabinet without that information included or modelled. There should have been scenarios included which factored in full vaccination of the population by August. What was shown to cabinet was a scenario where full vaccination of the population was not completed until September or October, as per previous projections.

Data was outdated, simple as.

Nope. Its a discussion. One where blinkers being used wilfully seem to be much in evidence.

The Nphet briefing letter with details of the model and the announcement of the additional vaccines came out the same day.

The data on those vaccines including how the rollout will be implemented is not yet there and cannot be included or modelled. Other pertinent data including likley uptake of either AZ or J&J by those under 40 is also not a given as per the apparent low uptake of J&J in the 50s age group todate.

But sure let's ignore that and pretend otherwise.

Leftwaffe

Fils wrote: »

No but you can eat in the hotel afterwards.

That would be funny if it wasn’t so serious!

Anyone know if they can go ahead? Read they are off but source flimsy.

Ballynally

normanoffside wrote: »

Nolan has also confirmed that the model he is using is indeed the one compiled by the snooker rakings student.

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1410315619656949765

again, a model that was presented in february 2021. And that was already a revised one from earlier on.
What im saying is, it does NOT take the Delta variant into account and does not use current data from the UK.
So even mentioning this report as a basis highlighted in his tweet is an enormous mistake and indicates the level that he operates on.