Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

ACitizenErased

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Its a discussion. One where blinkers being used wilfully seem to be much in evidence.

The Nphet briefing letter with details of the model and the announcement of the additional vaccines came out the same day.

The data on those vaccines including how the rollout will be implemented is not yet there and cannot be included or modelled. Other pertinent data including likley uptake of either AZ or J&J by those under 40 is also not a given as per the apparent low uptake of J&J in the 50s age group todate.

But sure let's ignore that and pretend otherwise.

The health minister literally gave projections.
I'm not the one with blinkers here, read the room.

Indestructable

naughtysmurf wrote: »

Indoor dining has been happening for months, long before June 2nd, two hotels in the Midwest, one 4* one 3* I can 100% confirm have been allowing indoor dining & (insert preferred beverage here) for non residents, just stroll in & enquire about a table. I’d be amazed if this isn’t country wide to some extent

Yes, it definitely has in hotels anyway. We were residents in a hotel at the weekend. Strolled from outside directly into the bar and asked for a table for a few drinks.
No room number was asked, no names, no details at all.

It was only after we sat down it dawned on us we could have come from anywhere.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The experts whose data models are outdated???? Tell me, how is it our experts are better than the rest of Europe???? And yet still managed to put nursing home patients in danger??? Your desperately scrambling for a defence now. Your type are all the same. Superiority complex (somehow) because you are blindy following failure. Never any coherent argument. Always trying to character assassinate in order to make your point instead of providing evidence to the contrary

I know thats a reply to another poster but the
bit in bold would be funny if it wasn't quite so ironic tbf.

I presume you believe the ECDC data models are also outdated?

Modelling scenarios indicate that any relaxation over the summer months of the stringency of nonpharmaceutical measures that were in place in the EU/EEA in early June could lead to a fast and significant increase in daily cases in all age groups, with an associated increase in hospitalisations, and deaths, potentially reaching the same levels of the autumn of 2020 if no additional measure are taken.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/threat-assessment-emergence-and-impact-sars-cov-2-delta-variant

MrMusician18

MOR316 wrote: »

And tell me, how do you know who I am and what I do for a living and how this whole thing has affected me?

Have a seat son, you ain't got a clue. As I said previously, your assumptions aren't doing you any favours

You work in an office job and probably from home.

At the end of the day, surely the most important two stats are hospitalisations and deaths, and we can assume in the vast majority of ICU cases, they sadly graduate to death???

If it was a case where we are suddenly overcome in the hospitals, then id fully understand a need for a lockdown, however, we have very low levels of hospitalisations at present, very few in ICU, and deaths are at a very low level this month overall. The population is increasingly becoming vaccinated against the virus.

MOR316

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You work in an office job and probably from home.

Do I yeah?

You have no idea...Will leave you to try and get some other poster to bite, young Padawan.

Have fun

gozunda

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The health minister literally gave projections.
I'm not the one with blinkers here, read the room.

You need data not generalised 'projections' aka a statement for modeling. Yeah I can read the room. Lots of blinkers .

Edit: just found SDs "projections" btw.

While a target had previously been set to get every adult in Ireland who wants a vaccine fully vaccinated by the end of September, Donnelly told Virgin Media News that the NIAC advice could mean this would happen sooner.

He said: "We have been on plan before the NIAC advice to have every adult in the country who wants to be vaccinated fully vaccinated by the end of September.

"We're working right now to calculate exactly what the change might be in terms of vaccinating people earlier but certainly it will move it forward several weeks.

"It would be lovely to be able to see a situation where every adult who wanted a vaccine would be fully vaccinated ideally by the end of August.

"But we need to work through the exact modelling of that now with the HSE, with the taskforce, and as always these timelines are heavily dependent on the supplies that arrive in."

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

I know thats a reply to another poster but the
bit in bold would be funny if it wasn't quite so ironic tbf.

I presume you believe the ECDC data models are also outdated?



https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/threat-assessment-emergence-and-impact-sars-cov-2-delta-variant

Why is none of the other 26 EU member states following them so??? it also says that full vaccination protects against the variant of which the levels are increasing constantly. Even if you were not fully vaccinated, it doesnt guarantee that the symptoms will necessarily be bad enough for hospitalisations and deaths to rapidly increase.

normanoffside

So we are Are back to having more members of NPHET than people in hospital with Covid. 4 x more TDs than people in hospital with Covid and we must keep everything closed because of this.

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1410362103077163012?s=21

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

So we are Are back to having more members of NPHET than people in hospital with Covid. 4 x more TDs than people in hospital with Covid and we must keep everything closed because of this.

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1410362103077163012?s=21

Remember, we are all in this together, including 450k a year Paul Reid who is over the HSE. While they were throwing that money at him, they neglected their cyber security and as a result, thousands of people have been compromised.

Cienciano

Deleted User wrote: »

On top of everything, surely asking people for their confidential health information is a data protection issue? Wasnt there a recent issue with employers and vaccine passports and how its a big data protection no-no?

I would assume for pubs and restaurants that if you refused to give it, which you're entitled to do, you wouldn't get in. Same way a 20 year old could be asked for ID.

MrMusician18

normanoffside wrote: »

So we are Are back to having more members of NPHET than people in hospital with Covid. 4 x more TDs than people in hospital with Covid and we must keep everything closed because of this.

https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1410362103077163012?s=21

I think you need to step outside and see that, in fact, almost all businesses are open. Even pubs and restaurants, can you believe I even got a pint in one at the weekend!

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Its a discussion. One where blinkers being used wilfully seem to be much in evidence.

The Nphet briefing letter with details of the model and the announcement of the additional vaccines came out the same day.

The data on those vaccines including how the rollout will be implemented is not yet there and cannot be included or modelled. Other pertinent data including likley uptake of either AZ or J&J by those under 40 is also not a given as per the apparent low uptake of J&J in the 50s age group todate.

But sure let's ignore that and pretend otherwise.

So why are they using modelling that doesn't take these vaccine types into account?? Surely they know enough about these vaccines from testing now, to know how effective they are???

MrMusician18

MOR316 wrote: »

Do I yeah?

You have no idea...Will leave you to try and get some other poster to bite, young Padawan.

Have fun

Yeah, you do.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I think you need to step outside and see that, in fact, almost all businesses are open. Even pubs and restaurants, can you believe I even got a pint in one at the weekend!

Yes but this is weather permitting as its outdoor dining only. We are not a sunny country. This may not be sustainable long term to keep these businesses viable. Thats the issue. What about the businesses that dont have outdoor facilities???

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

On top of everything, surely asking people for their confidential health information is a data protection issue? Wasnt there a recent issue with employers and vaccine passports and how its a big data protection no-no?

No different to flashing ID at the door of the pub.

normanoffside

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember, we are all in this together, including 450k a year Paul Reid who is over the HSE. While they were throwing that money at him, they neglected their cyber security and as a result, thousands of people have been compromised.

I read today that the HSE budgeted €100k a year for cyber security while paying out €450k for Paul Reid’s salary. It’s gonna end up costing us half a Billion € to fix the cyber security issues.

At least we have a top CEO like paul in charge keeping our hospitalised Covid numbers down to below the number of NPHET members.

bucketybuck

MOR316 wrote: »

If I or anyone had posted in January...

That we'd get to the end of June, with a sufficient vaccine rollout, with the vulnerable all but better protected from serious illness or death but that Tony Holohan and NPHET wanted indoor pubs and restaurants to remain closed, for possibly the rest of the year, along with concerts, theatre events, but would agree to let them open if people who were vaccinated were only allowed in, while the rest of the people who haven't been offered one were to be shunned from society, in quite an unlawful way but those who haven't been vaccinated can still in work in said locations, they just had to leave as soon as their shift finished and the Government would agree to it...

People did post that. They got shouted down by certain people posting literally thousands of times playing their own little games.

irishproduce wrote: »

Surely it's been pointed out already that the restricting indoor dining to vaccinated people, is a tool to force younger people who weren't bothering with the vaccine, to now go and get it.
Legally it won't stand up. But it doesn't have to, it just has to hold water long enough to get a sizeable group of under 35s to get the jab.

The general population of under 35's aren't eligible to get a vaccine yet, so how exactly have these young people been "not bothering to get it"?

Fils

Fils wrote: »

No but you can eat in the hotel afterwards.

You need to trust the experts remember...

This is Australia but alot of the mad logic could be applied to here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpWiFygdAAE

Unthought Known

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Alcohol kills 1000 people a year, smoking kills 6000 people year. They'll need to go as well as motor vehicles.

Absolutely. And ban ageing as well while we're at it. B@stard of a killer that one.

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but this is weather permitting as its outdoor dining only. We are not a sunny country. This may not be sustainable long term to keep these businesses viable. Thats the issue. What about the businesses that dont have outdoor facilities???

The poster said that everything is closed, while in fact almost everything is open. That kind of disingenuous fact free posting doesn't help his cause.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is none of the other 26 EU member states following them so??? it also says that full vaccination protects against the variant of which the levels are increasing constantly. Even if you were not fully vaccinated, it doesnt guarantee that the symptoms will necessarily be bad enough for hospitalisations and deaths to rapidly increase.

Possibly because its a fairly new report (23 Jun 2021)and recommendations would take some time to be implemented I'd imagine. Though also its up to each EU/EEA country to decide on an appropriate course of action.

What we do know that the delta variant poses a risk to those who are unvaccinated and those with one dose of vaccine

From the ECDC report

The assessment of the risk for infection to unvaccinated and partially vaccinated individuals from the Delta VOC in the EU/EEA has also increased...

The overall risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection related to the expected increase in circulation of the Delta VOC for the general population is considered to be low for fully vaccinated sub-populations and high-to-very high for partially or unvaccinated sub-populations.

The overall risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection related to the expected increase in circulation of the Delta VOC for vulnerable population is considered to be low-to-moderate for fully vaccinated sub-populations and very high for partially or unvaccinated sub-populations.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So why are they using modelling that doesn't take these vaccine types into account?? Surely they know enough about these vaccines from testing now, to know how effective they are???

There was no mention of vaccines being 'effective' btw. I referred to uptake as an example of issues which potentially may effect any modelling as was discussed.

funnydoggy

namloc1980 wrote: »

The parody account of Tony Holohan on Twitter has been suspended. :pac: Rarely see that happening.

If only it was the real one :pac:

MOH

irishproduce wrote: »

Surely it's been pointed out already that the restricting indoor dining to vaccinated people, is a tool to force younger people who weren't bothering with the vaccine, to now go and get it.
Legally it won't stand up. But it doesn't have to, it just has to hold water long enough to get a sizeable group of under 35s to get the jab.

Except for the fact that having had covid in the last 9 months will also get you in the door.

If I was 20 I'd be quite happy to get a vaccine ASAP, but given that will take month the logical thing to do would be to go to as many house parties as possible to try and get covid.

The only flaw in that plan being that I wouldn't bet on them having the system actually implemented within 9 months

giveitholly

MOH wrote: »

Except for the fact that having had covid in the last 9 months will also get you in the door.

If I was 20 I'd be quite happy to get a vaccine ASAP, but given that will take month the logical thing to do would be to go to as many house parties as possible to try and get covid.

The only flaw in that plan being that I wouldn't bet on them having the system actually implemented within 9 months

And what happens if you had covid exactly 9 months from whenever indoor hospitality opens,Once you have passed the 9 months are you no longer eligible to enter pubs/restaurants?

MOH

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The poster said that everything is closed, while in fact almost everything is open. That kind of disingenuous fact free posting doesn't help his cause.

Source for "almost everything is open"? Any vague link? Any basic definition for what you consider "almost everything"?

That kind of weaselling doesn't help your cause.
Actually, almost everything is currently closed.

MrMusician18

MOH wrote: »

Source for "almost everything is open"? Any vague link? Any basic definition for what you consider "almost everything"?

That kind of weaselling doesn't help your cause.
Actually, almost everything is currently closed.

Well yes, right now most businesses are closed since it's 12:20 at night.

Only a small number of leisure hospitality and entertainment focussed businesses remain closed, which is a tiny proportion of business in this country.

funnydoggy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Micheal Martin was part of the government that brought the country to its knees in 2008. He also was involved in establishing the disastrous HSE. He is seemingly Teflon. Nothing will bring him down. He's from Cark bai, and the locals will back anyone down from down there

We don't want him, you can have him!

Signed,
A Corkman.

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. The information wasn't available when the model was sent to the government. Its still not available.

The HSE and the government has yet to draft and agree an implementation plan for the changes in NIAC additional J&J & AZ vaccine recommendations for the under 40s

So unless mindreading or Crystal ball gazing is a thing - then no at the time and even now - the model is not outdated.

WE didn't know about it but there is zero chance that Donnelly, Tony and NIAC didn't know about it before that letter was sent to government. At the very minimum it should have been called out in Tony's letter that new advice had been given on vaccine rollout that may have a material impact on everything else contained in it. What should have happened is that once Donnelly and Tony knew about the change they should have immediately commissioned a new model to reflect this change. If meant delaying publication by a week then so be it but make sure the reason for the delay is communicated clearly.

What appears to have happenes here is that cabinet were asked to make a decision on keeping indoor activities closed indefinitely on the back of a piece of paper not worth wiping your hole with.

funnydoggy

funnydoggy wrote: »

We don't want him, you can have him!

Signed,
A Corkman.

Vote him out so.