Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII Read OP For Mod Warnings

average_runner · 16-11-2021 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175664#Comment_118175664

We all see it but how can it be done?

Increase income tax by 10-15% for lower wage and increase it to 20-30% for higher wage?

We got to pay for it somehow and it will be very expensive

16-11-2021 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175652#Comment_118175652

Same here. I'm done with their bullsh*t.

average_runner · 16-11-2021 4:14pm

Lads no one cares if you get the boosters or not.

Penfailed · 16-11-2021 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175670#Comment_118175670

Clubs have to close at midnight. It's not possible to run a nightclub on this basis so they will have to close. They aren't on lockdown because that's not what lockdown means.

My God.

Does no one use a fúcking dictionary these days?!

average_runner · 16-11-2021 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175690#Comment_118175690

No one cares anymore, sit back and watch it all play out

MOR316 · 16-11-2021 4:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175690#Comment_118175690

Classic narcissistic behaviour...

Can't stand to be wrong so gets aggressive and throws the toys out of the pram

Pal, lockdown means "isolation or restricted access" so under these new restrictions, they can't open! They can't operate, therefore, they are isolated and have no access, therefore, they're under lockdown!

I'd return your dictionary back to Eason's and cool your jets! You don't have to be right all the time. It's OK to be wrong

growleaves · 16-11-2021 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175647#Comment_118175647

The 'cases' rise and fall when restrictions are already in place. The pattern of rising cases is not caused by lack of restrictions (which don't correlate anyway) and the situation is not mitigated by ramping up restrictions like is happening this week.

I predicted on this thread last January that 'cases' would begin to ramp up this October and I was correct.

I kept getting shouted down by posters who said I was wrong because vaccines would 'get us out of this'. That was at the beginning of the first vaccination campaign.

If we were honest about what really drives cases we could, at the very least, take the late spring summer and early autumn off as a breather.

You could get rid of many or most restrictions in Ireland, like in England, and the rise and fall pattern of 'cases' would hold.

'Cases' are going up in England but are NOT PREVENTED from going up here.

average_runner · 16-11-2021 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175714#Comment_118175714

They can open, they open earlier 8-12!!!!! Remember night clubs doing this on xmas eve!!!!

bear1 · 16-11-2021 4:23pm

Have to feel sorry for the industry. A complete shambles by the government

storker · 16-11-2021 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175652#Comment_118175652

Username checks out.

astrofool · 16-11-2021 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175720#Comment_118175720

So you're in the no restrictions group (UK has also effectively used lockdown to reduce cases and hospitalisations).

If the hospitals get overrun, who are you going to stop treating first?

That's why the government is reintroducing restrictions today, they are not making that choice. You are, so elaborate.

average_runner · 16-11-2021 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175720#Comment_118175720

But the issue is, can we handle the ICU cases and keep all the other services running?

HSE is a mess but we cant sort that right now, probably never will

watchingfromafar · 16-11-2021 4:28pm

It's at times like these I thank my Dad for his advice

"when the crowd is rushing in one direction, stop, do nothing, just wait and watch"

And by god he was right again.

"the vaccine is the way out of this! discrimination is the way out of this!" yell the crowd.

So I wait and watch.

And well... here we are.

So lets get this right, the people who said covid was seasonal were called crazy, so we sat outside all summer. Yet when we were allowed indoors it was only the vaccinated and the recovered (6monthers) to go inside

So either

A - Covid is seasonal and we wasted our time sitting outside

B- The vaccines/certs don't do dick to stop the spread

I am kind of enjoying all the jabbers who wanted to impose restrictions on anyone they disagreed with, panicking and whining about "BUT THE VACCINE???"

Now we wait for their hysteria to settle down and they will either call out these nonsense rules OR they will look to big pharma for the next pill or jab they can take which will allow them to live a "normal" life.

Don't think they wont be screaming for their next jab if they think it gives them freedom. Fools.

storker · 16-11-2021 4:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118174671#Comment_118174671

I hope you find a sense-of-perspective donor soon.

MOR316 · 16-11-2021 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175722#Comment_118175722

You mean Christmas Eve when pubs shut at 8 or 9 and there is a demand for nightclubs unlike any of the other 364 days a year???????????

That Christmas Eve??????

!!!!!!!!!!

16-11-2021 4:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175475#Comment_118175475

This represents an fundamental misunderstanding.

Vaccines trigger the immune system to create antibodies. This works to varying degrees in different people depending on their immune system but is 95% effective at doing so.

Overtime the number of antibodies to any infection / vaccine wane. The body does not maintain a constant army of antibodies to every single pathogen it encounters. The immune system does however "recognise" the pathogen if seen again and can rapidly make the required antibodies.

With vaccines such as for the measles - the virus replicates in epithelial cells in the lungs and trachea, where immune response is strong. Therefore when a vaccinated person is exposed, the body quickly identifies the invader and creates required antibodies, nipping it in the bud.

With Covid ( and influenza), the virus first replicates in the upper respiratory tract where immune response is lower. Lower because this area is constantly exposed to potential pathogens, and to trigger a full response every time would result in chronic hayfever. Therefore, once initial antibodies wane, there is a increased risk of the virus already replicating prior to the immune system triggering the response. The response is triggered however which can be seen in the effectiveness against serious disease being maintained. With Delta, this is exacerbated as it is so much more infectious to begin with.

So far, with delta, the boosters, seem to be holding firm in Israel. Boosters should last longer also, as repeat exposure has a greater chance of generating more sustainable immunity.

Vaccines needing multiple shots and boosters is not new. Diphtheria, Whooping cough, Tetanus and Polio vaccines are given at 2, 4 and 6 months, with a booster at 5 (junior infants). No one talks about them being completely useless because a booster is needed though

Penfailed · 16-11-2021 4:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175714#Comment_118175714

Not aggressive. Frustrated. You've spun the definition of lockdown so much that it no longer makes sense. If a nightclub is closed, are you under lockdown? No? Exactly. The nightclub is closed, therefore it is closed...the end.

16-11-2021 4:34pm

I wonder is there a parallel Austrian boards universe where some deluded vaxxer is banging away at his keyboard saying « We need these lockdown and restrictions. If we don’t get our vaccination level up to 92% we’ll never be as free as the Irish ! »...

growleaves · 16-11-2021 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175741#Comment_118175741

Your emotional question doesn't follow from what I've said.

I'm saying these restrictions don't do anything.

The 'cases' will begin to taper off again next Spring. Hopefully we'll get an early warm Spring next year (fingers crossed).

Meanwhile who knows what scapegoating mania or restrictions will be in place or not in place. It's the political response which is a complete toss-up and unpredictable.

MOR316 · 16-11-2021 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175782#Comment_118175782

I've posted in response to you, twice and only mentioned the word "lockdown" in one post so I ain't spun anything. Actually, it's you who is the doing the spinning. I never once said I was under lockdown! I never said any citizen was under lockdown! I said lockdown means restricted movement or access (which it says according to the dictionary btw) Nightclubs can't operate under the new restrictions, people can't access them under the new restrictions, therefore nightclubs are under lockdown.

The only reason I responded to you in the first place because of your nonsensical post that basically said nightclubs weren't under lockdown, in some vanity driven attempt to be proved right.

That is all!

Rebelbrowser · 16-11-2021 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175722#Comment_118175722

They can, and I can see a market for that too. But it does beg the question, if nightclubs can still open for 4 hours, what is the point of this restriction? Are nightclubs running from 8pm to midnight going to be safer somehow than nightclubs running from 10.30pm to 2.30pm?

All v depressing. I still don't agree with the many on here who think the government are out to get us and this is part of some big plan. They are doing their best (and I appreciate that's a scary thought) - but I do think they have little idea what they are doing anymore. In fairness to them, the scientific advice they (and the world) are getting keeps changing and pulling the rug out from under their feet.

I will get a booster happily, seems to have worked well in Israel, but I do increasingly wonder, when the history of this gets written, if on a human cost / benefit analysis might mankind have been better not to intervene and let this pandemic run its course like all other pandemics have done? Problem really is that we have (or think we have) a choice because of better meds and vaccines today. Prior generations didn't have those choices. But if the meds and vaccines are only causing short term gains but extending the duration of this shitshow you wonder would we have been better off without a choice? Not saying for a moment if I was in charge I wouldn't have pushed vaccines - they are clearly saving lives right now so it would be some hard nosed bastard who would tell his countrymen he was going to let covid rip and to hell with the consequences - but are we just prolonging this whole thing? Of course this assumes vaccines will prolong things and stop the necessary herd immunity from forming and maybe that's not the case / bollox.

Just rambling at this stage I appreciate - depressed today as I said...

16-11-2021 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175782#Comment_118175782

Come on Penfailed. Take the L.

Rebelbrowser · 16-11-2021 4:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175760#Comment_118175760

Not asking this in an aggressive way, just curious. If you were Taoiseach today what would you do? I'm f##cked if I know at this stage.....

astrofool · 16-11-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175817#Comment_118175817

You're basically denying that any measures work, but OK (including the massive drop in cases in Ireland last January during lockdown).

This was 2020, you need to come up with another reason for the peaks and troughs that don't follow the seasons besides restrictions (hint: 2021 looks much flatter, mostly because of vaccines):

and you still have to make that decision when the hospitals get overrun.

I'm not sure where you're getting the "emotional" bit, if you were in charge, they are decisions you would have to make, up to you to get emotional or not (or does putting your own emotion onto others make you feel better? It's a bit of an odd thing to do, you don't seem to be posting to get a reaction like others, but not being driven by facts and figures either "I guessed October so I must be right about everything" is a funny stance to take, even if it's November).

Penfailed · 16-11-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175851#Comment_118175851

?

growleaves · 16-11-2021 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175839#Comment_118175839

Since vaccines in the past had sterilising immunity, I don't think we can claim we have "better" vaccines now.

A person who took a polio vaccine was immunised against polio. They didn't need to start a demonisation campaign against other people who had not been vaccinated against polio.

16-11-2021 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118175498#Comment_118175498

ICU numbers back it up. Take the number of ICU admissions in un-vaccinated, and without even adjusting for the fact that those most vulnerable to serious illness are under represented in this population - say 60 people at moment, in 8% of the total population. ICU admissions in u18's being negligible. 60 in 8% extrapolates to 750 in the total population. Pre-vaccine, the totals in ICU represented about 4% of the daily cases at the time. At 4% this would translate to 18,000 cases. I was conservative in my estimates.