Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

MrMusician18

MOR316 wrote: »

He's not going to say it's the wrong decision...

I mean, it quite clearly is the wrong decision and themselves and NPHET have made an absolute balls of the whole thing but, he's not going to admit it and never will.

He gets incredibly defensive in press conferences if someone pushes him on a very innocent question

What is the wrong decision? To slow down the opening of indoor dining for 2.5 weeks? In the grand scheme of things it's not even in the same league of some of the decisions made to date in terms of impact on the population.

timmyntc

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What is the wrong decision? To slow down the opening of indoor dining for 2.5 weeks? In the grand scheme of things it's not even in the same league of some of the decisions made to date in terms of impact on the population.

Its not 2.5 weeks though - in 2.5 weeks they will "have a plan".
They have halted our entire reopening, one that was already one of the slowest in Europe, based on models & predictions we now know to be totally unfit for purpose and inaccurate!

How could that be the right decision?

CalamariFritti

charlie14 wrote: »

Except of course people have been building up their innate immunity to colds each winter since Adam was a young lad and it has not been worth a damn when it came to immunity from Covid-19.


What would your estimate for the lenght of time it would take to build up innate immunity to Covid-19 and the corresponding yearly deaths ?

So of its not worth a damn how come the vast majority of people are actually unaffected by covid or have mild symptoms only?

I cant claim its its because of other corona viruses and pre-existing immunity from them because who knows so how can I know. But there has to be something at play.

MOR316

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What is the wrong decision? To slow down the opening of indoor dining for 2.5 weeks? In the grand scheme of things it's not even in the same league of some of the decisions made to date in terms of impact on the population.

But it's not 2.5 weeks.
The Government have even said it won't be 2.5 weeks.
This has been explained countless times to you and you just end up trying to insult the posters who do explain it or label them "disingenuous"

I'm not arsed getting involved with you

Responder XY

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What is the wrong decision? To slow down the opening of indoor dining for 2.5 weeks? In the grand scheme of things it's not even in the same league of some of the decisions made to date in terms of impact on the population.

I don't think they could have agreed to proceed with the opening, but they should have sent Nepht home and told them to do better with the analysis. It is very apparent that they were presented with information that was not fit for purpose, the cabinet should have recognised that and postponed the decision. Appreciate that it would not be ideal for hospitality to not have certainty, so maybe a short postponement was required given the timeline, but in that case Nphet should have been publicly hung out to dry as being 100% responsible for that. Resignations should have been sought and if not received dismissal for incompetence should happen.

Some people have always accused people who are against restrictions as being "far right", one thing most people don't seem to know is that John waters, Dave Cullen, Justin Barrett and many more far right figures in Ireland were the very first people to hype up covid very early in 2020 and were calling for the airports to be closed. They thought it was a golden opportunity for Ireland to return to their wet dream of 1950s when people seldom left the parish let alone the country.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What is the wrong decision? To slow down the opening of indoor dining for 2.5 weeks? In the grand scheme of things it's not even in the same league of some of the decisions made to date in terms of impact on the population.

So you believe that in 2.5 weeks time, a few million "vaccine passes" will have been issued and every pub and restaurant in the country will have a device installed to read them? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Jinglejangle69

Is Gemma o Doherty actually sane???

MrMusician18

timmyntc wrote: »

Its not 2.5 weeks though - in 2.5 weeks they will "have a plan".
They have halted our entire reopening, one that was already one of the slowest in Europe, based on models & predictions we now know to be totally unfit for purpose and inaccurate!

How could that be the right decision?

The 19th July is the date the government have proposed to have the EU green cert available. It is almost certainly going to be repurposed to allow indoor dining for the vaccinated on or near that date. That is unless updated modelling shows that the next wave will be less severe, then they will relax instead.

Even if indoor dining was restricted for the rest of the summer, the decision would not be within an asses roar of the previous severe restrictions in terms of inconvenience or cost.

is_that_so

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The 19th July is the date the government have proposed to have the EU green cert available. It is almost certainly going to be repurposed to allow indoor dining for the vaccinated on or near that date. That is unless updated modelling shows that the next wave will be less severe, then they will relax instead.

Even if indoor dining was restricted for the rest of the summer, the decision would not be within an asses roar of the previous severe restrictions in terms of inconvenience or cost.

They've said no to using it even if they do repurpose and hospitality bodies are emphatically against it. There now seems to be a renewed interest in rapid antigen testing instead. It'll be long after 19 July before it's ready.

Hurrache

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

You have to applaud the vaccine effort, but it raises the question as to what exactly is the endgame here

To avoid this
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1410529154978701319

I think the UK at the moment has more cases, not sure if it's total or daily, than the entire EU.

MOH

eskimohunt wrote: »

Getting there!

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1410599174962249737

So Delta is now estimated to now be 55% of cases.

On March 26th Glynn and Varadkar were warning we'd be lucky to keep cases below 500-600 per day due to the UK variant.
On April 1st the 7-day average was 549, May 1st it was 461.

Yesterday's 7-day average is 305.

Despite the fact that in the meantime the Delta variant, the mother of all viral hurricanes, far more transmissible (60% more?) than the UK variant, has grown to 55% of current cases - yet despite all this our cases have dropped by 45% in the past three months?!

That doesn't make sense.

The only possible explanation I can think of for the insane doom warnings is that our case numbers are privately believed to be completely unreliable. We're in the middle of peak hay fever season, Delta symptoms can be similar, maybe they reckon there's a load of people who think they have bad hay fever who aren't bothering to get tested. Or maybe they think most people who have it have such mild symptoms they're not getting tested. And that if there's a huge percentage more cases than known out there, there's a high risk to the older cohort not yet fully vaccinated.

Of course if that were the case then all projections are pointless anyway since the data is unreliable.

MrMusician18

Johns nephew wrote: »

So you believe that in 2.5 weeks time, a few million "vaccine passes" will have been issued and every pub and restaurant in the country will have a device installed to read them? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

The device to read them will be a phone, so yes it's perfectly possible to deploy quickly. The system is in place for EU travel, there are no major additional technical hurdles to overcome here.

Open app, display QR code valid for 5 mins, code is scanned by another app by person on door to say it's valid, then off you go. Simple.

TomTomTim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Is Gemma o Doherty actually sane???

Am I missing something? Why do people keep bringing up Gemma & John? It's bizarre.

is_that_so

Hurrache wrote: »

To avoid this
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1410529154978701319

I think the UK at the moment has more cases, not sure if it's total or daily, than the entire EU.

Why do people keep linking to this self-publicising drama queen? Surely there are other sources without the drama?

Doctor Jimbob

Hurrache wrote: »

To avoid this
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1410529154978701319

I think the UK at the moment has more cases, not sure if it's total or daily, than the entire EU.

That lad is possibly the biggest scaremonger going.

I bet you'd be one of the first to take the piss out of someone sharing something from the likes of Gemma O'Doherty or Ivor Cummins but that lad is just the other side of the same coin.

is_that_so

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That lad is possibly the biggest scaremonger going.

I bet you'd be one of the first to take the piss out of someone sharing something from the likes of Gemma O'Doherty or Ivor Cummins but that lad is just the other side of the same coin.

As usual he's also missing some key data, Israel has stalled at about 60% and the UK has vaccine hesitancy of up to 25% in some older groups. Full speed ahead is the answer to Delta.

Patrick2010

I wish people would stop saying its only another couple of weeks when everyone knows it won't be happening.

TomTomTim

is_that_so wrote: »

As usual he's also missing some key data, Israel has stalled at about 60% and the UK has vaccine hesitancy of up to 25% in some older groups. Full speed ahead is the answer to Delta.

The sad thing about of all this hackery from supposedly scientific people, is that that it makes people generally sceptical about science in general. They are tarnishing their whole field, and they don't seem to care.

is_that_so

Patrick2010 wrote: »

I wish people would stop saying its only another couple of weeks when everyone knows it won't be happening.

The only thing that matters at this point is vaccinations, so two weeks on we'll easily break 70% on first shots and over 50% fully vaccinated.

namloc1980

Hurrache wrote: »

To avoid this
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1410529154978701319

I think the UK at the moment has more cases, not sure if it's total or daily, than the entire EU.

Again focussing on case numbers only. When will this obsession end?

Israel has a 7 day moving average of deaths of 0. That's Zero deaths.

Serious hospitalisations are down to 29 from 50 a month ago and 100 2 months ago.

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

Eivor

is_that_so wrote: »

The only thing that matters at this point is vaccinations, so two weeks on we'll easily break 70% on first shots and over 50% fully vaccinated.

And then watch them move the goalposts once again

Hurrache

is_that_so wrote: »

Why do people keep linking to this self-publicising drama queen? Surely there are other sources without the drama?

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That lad is possibly the biggest scaremonger going.

I bet you'd be one of the first to take the piss out of someone sharing something from the likes of Gemma O'Doherty or Ivor Cummins but that lad is just the other side of the same coin.

TomTomTim wrote: »

The sad thing about of all this hackery from supposedly scientific people, is that that it makes people generally sceptical about science in general. They are tarnishing their whole field, and they don't seem to care.

It's quite funny that people who don't want to see the data brush it off because they think the person posting it is a 'drama queen' or 'scaremonger' in order to ignore the data, actual real data and figures, that aren't made up or published by him in the first place.

None of the data is his.

namloc1980

Hurrache wrote: »

It's quite funny that people who don't want to see the data brush it off because they think the person posting it is a 'drama queen' or 'scaremonger' in order to ignore the data, actual real data and figures, that aren't made up or published by him in the first place.

namloc1980 wrote: »

Again focussing on case numbers only. When will this obsession end?

Israel has a 7 day moving average of deaths of 0. That's Zero deaths.

Serious hospitalisations are down to 29 from 50 a month ago and 100 2 months ago.

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

I've linked to the Israel official dashboard. Knock yourself out. The evidence shows the vaccines work, in fact they work brilliantly. All the metrics are down down down (deaths are 0, serious illness in hospital continues to fall) even as there is more delta cases (which appears more transmissible but less serious/deadly than Alpha or original Covid).

Tchaikovsky

Patrick2010 wrote: »

I wish people would stop saying its only another couple of weeks when everyone knows it won't be happening.

The last 68 weeks have taught us that the next 2 are crucial.

brickster69

Hurrache wrote: »

To avoid this
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1410529154978701319

I think the UK at the moment has more cases, not sure if it's total or daily, than the entire EU.

Incredible, fancy the 2 countries that are testing 10 times more than most other countries finding more cases than everyone. Amazing, maybe they should drop testing 95% so they don't look so bad to people on the internet.

Hurrache

namloc1980 wrote: »

I've linked to the Israel official dashboard. Knock yourself out. The evidence shows the vaccines work, in fact they work brilliantly. All the metrics are down down down even as there is more delta cases (which appears more transmissible but less serious/deadly than Alpha or original Covid).

And where's the argument that it doesn't work, not coming from me anyway.

timmyntc

Hurrache wrote: »

It's quite funny that people who don't want to see the data brush it off because they think the person posting it is a 'drama queen' or 'scaremonger' in order to ignore the data, actual real data and figures, that aren't made up or published by him in the first place.

He is scaremongering though.

The UK are seeing big increases in cases, but very modest increases in hospital or deaths. This is proof that vaccines work.

Same goes for Israel - he posted about an 800% increase in cases, but that increase comes from such a low base its incredibly disingenuous to frame things like that.

If we went from 1 case to 8 cases thats an 800% increase too.

Besides UK, USA and Israel have all taken the stance that there will be deaths in future, but with vaccines the overall risk of strain on health system or mass deaths just isnt a thing anymore.

Hurrache

brickster69 wrote: »

Incredible, fancy the 2 countries that are testing 10 times more than most other countries finding more cases than everyone. Amazing, maybe they should drop testing 95% so they don't look so bad to people on the internet.

You should propose your cure for any disease, just don't test for it.

C'mon would ya with that nonsense that people tried to use last year. Are you saying that they've decided to test more lately, and that's the only reason the numbers are increasing?

Tchaikovsky

With the low number of hospitalizations and no risk of death for the young and vaccinated, are we saying that it's now the equivalent of the flu? So we're counting the number of people who have an exotic flu to justify closing everything?