Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

323

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118335827#Comment_118335827

Would be interested in seeing where you base your opinion that "the unvaccinated take up disproportionate resources from the health system....."

Particularly when the number for % positive cases not vaccinated has been has been in steady decline. Even the CSO statistics don't fit the narrative any more, Last week the had to publish a second revision to boost the unvaccinated numbers. This week looks like the just didn't bother mentioning them.

Those that died with covid now down to where it was in September when we were expecting restrictions would be removed in October. Didn't happen then wont be happening any time soon.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342092#Comment_118342092

Who knows but I’m sure Meehole was kept well informed when he was in Brussels during the week. 😉

sekiro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342113#Comment_118342113

There is no difference.

The problem is and always has been the capacity of our healtcare services. More cases means more hospitalizations.

What have we done to prepare for that? Absolutely nothing.

So since the government have done nothing at all to actually fix the problem, despite knowing about this problem for almost 2 full years, they now need to put on the appearance of "doing something". So here we are.

I seriously doubt they've put much thought into it. I doubt they've looked at numbers of people going to the cinema and noticed that 8pm to midnight is a particularly exceptionally busy time so they want to shut that down. I doubt they've even bothered to establish what kind of case numbers are a result of people going to the cinema.

Schools, workplaces and homes are the main drivers of cases so let's shut pubs and that down at, hmmmm, pick a number, 8pm!

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340867#Comment_118340867

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary,that is EXACTLY my arguement.

When unelected and previously largely unknown administrators are suddenly given,almost absolute,access to power,it can distort many of their faculties.

In my opinion,this distortion has been visible in many of the Top Tier NPHET people for some time now.

It certainly appears to be a worrying element of the CMO's,by now regular,appearances on the media (including the some irregular sharing of the Government podium yesterday).

Few,if any of the CMO's concerns now appear to be directly virus related,but instead focus on the FAR broader issue of controlling MASS Public Interaction and Alcohol consumption.

The indications are,and have been for quite some time,that he desires a huge and enforced change in Public Behaviour,with suitably stringent punishment for those who resist.

To return to your original point,I would suggest that members of NPHET should be asked to submit details of recent Investment decisions made by them or On their behalf ,to establish whether any "Insider Trading" type of behaviour has occured.

One CANNOT take an overview of the Western World's Pandemic response which ignores the Incredible good financial fortune it has brought to the already well funded Pharmacutical Industry.

Close relationships between Senior Administrators and equally senior CEO's rarely,if ever,equal good news for the Great Unwashed,and that stands for little ol' Ireland just as id does with Grosser Europa !

To sum up SafeSurfer....Follow the MONEY,it will lead you to enlightment ! 🤑🤑🤑

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342296#Comment_118342296

The * means they don't have the data yet or that it's not final, in the week of 3/12 they had double (edit: not sure if these numbers including under 12 cases which would change the maths) the chance of being infected over the rest of the population (and they caveat that it's self reported, so not wholly accurate).

And because Omicron seems to evade previous infections (boosters seem to work) that % is likely to increase. Watch what happens in London.

And the problem isn't cases, it's the high % of unvaccinated that end up hospitalised vs. vaccinated, if anything, the dropping % would show the COVID pass system is having the intended effect (which was probably not your intent when posting this, but that's the numbers).

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341857#Comment_118341857

If we got to 100% vaccinated the next step after boosters is self flagellation for all of us who forget to obey the commands of NPHET to the letter.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341672#Comment_118341672

You make an excellent point.

NPHET's make up comprises the best & brightest of Ireland Public Administrators and an assortment of other folks with Degree's and Cert's in exotic practices.

Many of these will have flitted in and out of the HSE's flickering flame over their years in "power" and so will be well accquainted with "How the system works".

These people represent EXACTLY why the HSE is,as you accurately describe it "A shambles & a Mess".

Right now,particularly after Friday's performance it is imperative that NPHET,as currently devised should be disbanded and replaced by a smaller,broader representative group,with a clear direction to focus on Living with and Exiting current Covid "Emergency Measures".

If not,then Lunatics running Asylum Ireland is the New Normal.

GiftofGab

One thing I learned in all this is that you need to be very careful who you elect into government in the future. The ease at which the current government / NEPHET take away our liberty is astonishing.

The other issue is Michael Martin completely afraid to stand up to NEPHET. When Nephet make a "recommendation" we all know it's an order and will most definitely be implemented.

brickster69

Starting up in the UK now. Honestly it will not take much for really serious things to kick off soon.

https://twitter.com/SikhForTruth/status/1472194613695991808

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341763#Comment_118341763

The prevalent NPHET (and Government) view appears to desire a population who will remain indoors for most of their non-productive time,as in Work then Home ,or Work from Home.

The future,as desired by these people appears to be that Travel outside a tightly defined zone will only be permitted if your are wealthy enough to pay a hefty premium OR you are a member of the Diplomatic Corps.

One can only hope that somebody like Micheal O'Leary will get enough head of steam up to resist these "Policies",most of which directly challenge the very principles of Freedom & Democracy.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342471#Comment_118342471

My question though is where have ANY of these protests actually worked? Governments have emergency legislation to do what they want, in the name of health, basically. Now, I don't think any of them are abusing that right, they are doing what they think is best in their situation (regardless of whether we agree with it or not). But realistically, none of the protests actually have the ability to change anything. Not in the UK, not Europe, anywhere. Its not as if anti-vaccine passport protests are going to happen and the governments of the world say "ok we won't bring them in then".

You need far, far, FAR bigger protests and outright violence to kick out a government who isn't doing what you want, and I don't think any country is anywhere near that yet.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341707#Comment_118341707

The Africa question is now appearing more frequently as an integral part of moulding public response in the Western World.

It is a tried & tested methodology,practiced over the decades with Famine,Civil War and inter cine strife all being a regular causative factor to unlock more Aid Funding and NGO supports for the region.

The statistics,such as they are,appear to suggest the African Continent's Covid experience may not be identical to the European one.

Ascribing Racism to the comparison you make is about as useful as a triple dose of Pfizer in a pandemic,and a large red herring to my mind.

Western attempts to first Govern,then rescue various parts of the Continent have never been anywhere near successful,and Covid will not be any different.

Totally ignoring the initial reportage and experience of the South African Medical Professionals regarding Omicron,and instead brushing aside their factual experiences in favour of wild-eyed panic inducing stuff is IMO,far more racist in tenor than our supposed lack of response to supposed Vaccination inequality.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-africa/

The bottom graph is perhaps the most interesting in terms of Covid-19 Deaths...

Mr. Karate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341747#Comment_118341747

They've completely undermined the vaccination process with this. They're not going to get 100% so they need to get over that. People who can't get them for medical reasons are not going to risk their lives or health when these clowns clearly have no intention to normal. Plus this will really put people off getting vaccinated at all. And who have already been vaccinated and boostered aren't going to be in any hurry to get any more since they have given off the message that they intend to permanently keep us in some state of restrictions.

shockframe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342557#Comment_118342557

Well and truly snookered themselves with the vaccine message.

Up until last night there was some reasoning for it but that argument has taken a major setback.

If we're facing into a 3 month severe lockdown then many right or wrong will question the worth of taking a booster. Especially when our restrictions have been one of the toughest in the continent.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342541#Comment_118342541

you are not dealing with My original post

is it right that an Irish 5 year old will soon get the jab while many poor and at risk Africans don’t even have a first jab

it’s as simple question. And it requires a simple yes or no.

corcaigh07

Something is off here guys, wtf, this is from Mehole:

When asked if a permanent team of vaccinators needs to be in place going into the future, he said: "We are going to have to work on that, yes."

scooby77

Reuters reporting Dutch going into some form of lockdown, announcement 6pm local....quick Google suggests positivity rate of 24% last 7 days...we at 14% according to App...

facehugger99

My job frequently brings me into contact with a Government department, they are one of our biggest Clients.

Although the individuals are conscientious, hard-working, nice people, there is a real culture of risk-aversion and unaccountability .They are happy to choose a more expensive and time-consuming way to do something if it reduces the risk of making a wrong decision - even if the cost of doing so far exceeds the consequences of getting something wrong.

It is a completely different culture than a private-sector one - the incentives that drive efficiency and punish waste are completely absent. Their greatest fear is making a decision which will reflect poorly on the relevant Minister.

This manifests itself in many ways, the people who are promoted are the most cautious, most risk-adverse.

The response to Covid is what I see every day, just on a far greater scale. Why make a decision that has even a tiny chance of being the wrong one when you can spend billions of someone else's' money to avoid the risk?

Make no mistake, we will all be paying for this for decades to come, our children and our grandchildren will still be paying fo this when they start working. Interest rates are only going in one direction and we are royally fcuked when our debt becomes ever more expensive to service. This is nothing to do with pubs closing early - this is our quality of services and our quality of life for years and generations to come - that is what is being played with here.

Mr. Karate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342584#Comment_118342584

That is something very diabolical. If not all out evil. Why does he feel the need for a permanent team of vaccinators? This is clearly set up to never end no matter how many jabs we get.

kirk.

This is crazy when nothing has been done to increase ICU capacity

Billions thrown at the health service and we can't get extra capacity so the country has to shutdown

Mr. Karate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342577#Comment_118342577

Make it 6 months. No way will they let us out for St. Patrick's Day or Easter.

rm212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342902#Comment_118342902

The biggest issue with trying to expand health capacity in the short term is not even building new hospitals or sourcing scarce equipment and machinery - which are challenges in the themselves - but staff. It takes at least 6 years for someone to become qualified to work as a nurse or doctor, often longer. They can’t double the nursing workforce in a year, it’s not feasible. Improvements to capacity should be a medium to long term plan, they won’t help in the short term. You can argue all you like about whether previous governments should have invested more in capacity, yes, they probably should have, but those currently making the decisions must work with what they have now, and rolling out two or three times the capacity overnight is not possible in the timeframe we have. We are not a world power who can strong arm these things, we are a small island nation, sometimes people forget that.

rm212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342900#Comment_118342900

Why? Because the current government is trying to actually be prepared for future possibilities. This is still a very new virus, a new vaccine, we simply don’t know whether or not we will need annual COVID jabs to keep immunity levels strong.

If it turns out we do and we didn’t have the capacity to roll out quickly, you’d all be complaining here about the terrible government not planning ahead for this: “Now we have to do full lockdown while the slow rollout of jabs happens, why didn’t they prepare for this?!”

You strike me as the same type of person who would have been complaining if we had doubled ICU capacity 5 years ago at a cost of billions, because it was wasted money which should been used on… housing, transport or some other sector that needs funding but we only have a limited amount of, even though it’s apparently so obvious to everyone now that it should have been priority 1.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342929#Comment_118342929

It would have been possible to teach non-specialist nurses to cover covid-specific ICU beds in under a year and then have them working under more specialist ICU nurse supervisors. Same with doctors.

rm212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342952#Comment_118342952

And then you leave the rest of the medical services understaffed. It’s not a viable long term solution.

We also can’t dump all of the problems on existing nurses and doctors by working them to the bone, they’ve had the toughest time of anyone during this pandemic. We don’t want to lose them or we’ll have an even bigger mess. We need to support them in times where there is very high risk.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342366#Comment_118342366

it seems elbow bumps are only for the plebs, they don’t seem to be too worried about this deadly pandemic.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342318#Comment_118342318

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342318#Comment_118342318

From that you seem to believe our government is taking instructions from Brussels. If they are then every other country must be to taking instructions from Brussels as well as their is no great difference in their approach either. But perhaps you believe somebody else is giving Brussels instructions ?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342207#Comment_118342207

In my experience the first priority for the majority of politicians is to get re-elected. They are not going to get well paid as T.D`s if they fail to achieve that and as I said, I don`t see what the up-side for them with restrictions is. I cannot see it being a great vote getter.

Why would any politician, let alone members of a governing cabinet be worried about Tony Holohan ? He does not have any power whatsoever, he is an adviser. The elected government make decisions, not advisors. The only way he will ever be able to make decisions is the very minimum of getting elected as a T.D. and I cannot see him even putting his name on a ballot paper. There really is a lot of nonsense on this threads about this power Tony Holohan supposedly has..

votecounts

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1472242450290950150

Could be a stricter lock down, more than likely will be here in a week or so.

Fathom

California governor extended indoor mask wearing mandate another month. Omicron probably the motive.