Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411366#Comment_118411366

You as well?

darconio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411406#Comment_118411406

We don't know what triggered his reaction, we don't know what happened before. Regardless if he was high or not, how can you justify a police force beating a middle aged man on his own and actually hoping they cripple him so to make an example? In this together... 😥

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411152#Comment_118411152

The whole premise of the GBD was mad and that`s what invalidates it. Those such as Dr Gupta of Oxford university was well aware of the reason the U.K had dropped the strategy and that test results from others had shown it was an impossibility.

If she was so worried about the less well of she should not have added her name to a declaration funded and sponsored by a libertarian group that promotes the idea that sweatshops supplying multinationals is good for those working in them, but hopefully she donated her fee to the less well off.

At the very least someone with her qualifications should have done at least a bit of research into the people she was hitching her wagon to. A month before the GBD was signed by her, AIER`s "Senior Resident Fellow" published an article from AIER declaring "that the spread of the coronavirus declines to almost zero after 70 days - no matter where it strikes" Even Professor Notaf Uckingclue who also signed it would have know by October 2020 that was total B.S.

Like John Ionaddis, Stanford University professor of medicine and darling of FOX News and Donald Trump,all Gupta has achieve with the GBD herd immunity beliefs is trash whatever reputation she had.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411687#Comment_118411687

The whole premise of the GBD was standard pandemic response pretty much worldwide up until a couple of years ago..

timmymagoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118410544#Comment_118410544

The economy is being held together by the ECB and the tap will be turned off pretty soon because inflation is increasing and to stop inflation getting out of control they will have to stop printing money and possibly raise interest rates

There is tough Times ahead and don't believe anyone who tells it any different, we are entering a very dangerous period economically, politically and socially

Covid has weakened the hand Europe and the USA can play to deal with the dangers we face from Russia, China and more worryingly another economic crash

facehugger99

There have been queues out the gate - literally - at our local testing centre for the last few days.

Who are these people queuing up to get tested? Presumably they're all vaccinated and boosted at this stage.

I can only conclude they're looking to extend the holidays for another week or so by getting a cushy few days off work.

All they're doing is doing is giving more bullets to NPHEt to shoot the economy with.

I haven’t ever been tested and don't intend to.

I don't even recognise this country anymore.

Tony Manero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411681#Comment_118411681

If he didn`t want to get a few slaps then he shouldn`t have confronted the police. As I stated earlier he got off very lightly.

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411830#Comment_118411830

If he police get a few slaps then, will you be saying if they didn't want that they shouldnt have confronted the protestors?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411687#Comment_118411687

I’d say he isn’t far off wrong with the « 70 days » comment. If you take it that we have now, in the past 2 weeks, adopted the GBD philosophy of « letting it rip » (I know this is an oversimplification of the approach), I’d say we won’t be too far off flattening the spread within 2 months from now.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411687#Comment_118411687

I typed up a whole reply to your initial dumb post earlier, then deleted it. But since you persist:

a libertarian group that promotes the idea that sweatshops supplying multinationals is good for those working in them,

They conducted a study into sweatshops, and the study concluded that it is better for workers in developing countries to have "sweat shop" jobs than either no jobs at all or lower paid jobs with worse conditions. Comparatively rich Westerners like to blow hot air about manufacturing in developing nations, but when you seek to take that away you need to have a solution for the people you leave without the jobs that currently house, clothe and feed them.

"that the spread of the coronavirus declines to almost zero after 70 days - no matter where it strikes"

This was quoted from Isaac Ben-Israel, who wrote an article to that effect in April 2020. At the time, and at all times pre-Alpha variant, it was true that Covid waves rose and fell in around 70 days, regardless of what measures were taken in the locale where the wave was occurring. The point of Ben-Israel's article was to counter widespread claims at the time that Covid's growth was and would remain exponential.

GBD herd immunity beliefs

Herd immunity isn't some fantastical theory that popped up out of nowhere in 2020. The fact that you've been so thoroughly propagandised that "herd immunity" has become a dirty word is frankly hilarious.

"Focused protection" is only a reflection of policies that had been produced prior to 2020 over decades of research and scholarship in the fields of virology and epidemiology. The lockdowns that the GBD criticises are not scientifically proven and were never advised in any pandemic policy, but were imported wholesale from an authoritarian **** hole of a country because, to quote the UK's Neil Ferguson, famous for bad modelling and breaking his own lockdown rules, "we realised we could get away with it".

All of that aside, criticism of the AIER and your own disdain for massage therapists and other working class people being allowed to be "concerned citizens" are not in any way shape or form a robust criticism of the Great Barrington Declaration.

"You're stupid on Covid because I disagree with someone about the Brazilian rainforest" is exactly as braindead as it sounds.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411702#Comment_118411702

"Let it rip" you have made it clear over numerous threads has always been your preference. You have a history of running away when asked inconvenient questions, so this is most likely a waste of time.

From all we now know from those that chased herd immunity and those that believed mistakenly they had achieved it, do you believe it was a possibility, and if you do what would the number of Covid deaths be at this stage ?

To the nearest million will do.

noraos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411780#Comment_118411780

This is also something that I cannot understand.. and I know people who work from home.. will get paid..have a slight sniffle and they are paying 100 for a test..

Personally I see the need for medical testing to get a diagnosis for treatment and or prescription..that, to me, it was a medical test is for..this has become some sort of weird obsessive status. Almost cult like..I get daily tests from people I haven't seen in weeks telling me they are positive..they don't share any other medical information with me.. and I don't care..if they need me to drop stuff to them etc..of course I'll help..otherwise I really don't care if you have a sniffle..

There is definitely a % of people in that queue..that want the results to be told what to do..like if I'm sick I stay away from small babies and older people..been doing that all my life..I don't need a diagnosis or test result to tell me how to live..

I asked a friend why is he getting tested, when triple vaxxed and staying at home anyways.. he had no answer..only that's what it says on hse website... so he is being responsible already...its mind boggling.

I can actually see why NPHET treat us like dumb children.. cos just look at us..

Unvaxxed apparently will get this more than vaxxed..therfore they now get the pass... makes pass invalid imo...

I understand the powers that be, need to monitor it..but all we are doing with testing is feeding the fuel for more restrictions ..its so frustrating

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411938#Comment_118411938

Did you miss the date when he said that ? It was in September 2020. Where in the world in September 2020 had this virus declined to nearly zero after 70 days or anywhere it has declined to nearly zero since after 70 days.

What happens in the future nobody knows. What we do know, and the likes of Gupta knew back then is, it was a dangerous nonsense to base a strategy on.

darconio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411830#Comment_118411830

Again : do you know what happened before? You mentioned that he looked high, I think instead that he was shaken because of a previous unprovoked attack by the police. Look at the other video, they are just beating unarmed women: for all we know the police attacked his friend/wife/son/daughter triggering his furious reaction. I've mentioned this before, but we should be careful what we wish for: one day you may find yourself in the wrong side of the barricade

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411780#Comment_118411780

They are sycophants looking for a pat on the head from Tony and Co. All just about being seen to be obedient to others. I see it on my Facebook local forum every day. People constantly asking what time the vaccination Centre is open or if it’s busy. Information they could easily get online themselves but then their fellow hunzos wouldn’t see how virtuous they are. Social Media Pandemic.

Stormyteacup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412139#Comment_118412139

Whether he’s right or not, the fact that he said it in September 2020 is irrelevant. He wasn’t assessing the nature of the virus at a particular point in September 2020. He made his claim based on data he’d analysed since data was available for the virus. Questioning where in the world this virus had declined to zero in September 2020 is a clear strawman - nobody claimed this.

So the OP probably didn’t miss the date of the claim - just that the date when the claim was made is meaningless in the context of the claim.

Quite sure no one knows for sure how many days it takes a wave to pass - but it is finite (albeit prolonged with mitigation measures), or whether it settles at zero (some variants) or at a low-level circulation (expected eventually).

morphy87

I have a friend that is getting married mid February, what way do ye think it will be regarding restrictions by then,will they be eased somewhat?

Stormyteacup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412034#Comment_118412034

Fair play for taking the time to reply to that with the facts. It’s interesting how ‘herd immunity’ or more popularly ‘natural immunity’ is becoming less of a dirty word and is attributed by governments and their health advisors to their countries experience of a less deadly outcome this wave.

Also heartened to see many are coming around to the idea of targeted protection as a long-term strategy. So very late but gives hope that we won’t see a repeating of history should a highly discriminatory virus come our way again in our lifetimes.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412034#Comment_118412034

When doing your research could you not find the article from AIER`s "Senior Fellow" not just reiterated the 70 day claim, but claimed it had been confirmed, or was it just inconvenient for your rant.

I can see where his quoting of a Stanford antibody seroprevalance study in Santa Clara County meant "the case for extreme measures collapses like a house of cards" would also be inconvenient. That was the study by Professor John P A Ionnidis beloved of Trump and Fox News that has been debunked by simple mathematics when it comes to herd immunity

https://www.aier.org/article/we-must-choose-liberty-or-lockdown/

Seroprevelance studies in numerous countries, as well as one that was chasing herd immunity showed it was unachievable. and even those who believed they had achieved it very quickly found out how incorrect they were. India with disastrous results from deaths due to their population believing it.

If you are happy supporting shady right wing libertarian groups that are big on climate change denial and you believe their study into sweatshops was for the good of those slaving in them rather than a propaganda vehicle for multinationals then that is up to you.

I have no problem with anyone signing whatever they wish, or indeed those that signed the GBD showing the farce it was where when those behind it could not even be bothered to sort the facts from the farce when it came to the qualifications of those signing.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412455#Comment_118412455

What are you on about ?

The first Covid case was reported on 31st. Dec 2019. He wrote that 9 months after data was available, so where if he was correct had Covid spread dropped to almost zero within the intervening 70 days ? It was nothing more than another "let it rip" merchant`s baseless rambling.

Looks more the case of you attempting a strawman argument than me making a strawman point.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118409380#Comment_118409380

It's 13 years ago...and freely available.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/publications/clinical-strategy-and-programmes/towards-excellence-in-critical-care-report.pdf

Neither was it a "suggestion"...it was but one of a number of recomendations following on from a significant review of the broad Adult Critical Care system.

Yet,I have not heard of one single reference to it during any of the NPHET / Government Press events.

That alone,speaks volumes for the state of our 4th estate 😰

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411104#Comment_118411104

the minimal restrictions we have keep the amount removed from the economy low over all meaning the majority of it can work away perfectly fine.

all of the guidance and isolation etc is perfectly sustainable because it will always be a minority involved so it's fine really while it is actually needed which it still is for the moment.

covid is normalised in society but realistically the show has to be kept on the road and minimal restrictions will be around for a while yet so as to insure that can and will happen.

there is no rife stigmatisation in irish society surrounding covid, unless you are referring to conspiricy theorists and those who refuse to get vaccinated, who quite frankly deserve no sympathy as they have been trying to hold the country to ransom so deserve to be encouraged to get on the right track.

look, we are getting there, it's going to take a bit of time but we are on the way out of this and we will get out of this.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411152#Comment_118411152

no but the fact it is not based in reality does invalidate it.

it was never deliverable or workable, hence most countries stayed away from it.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411780#Comment_118411780

You got it in one !

I can only conclude they're looking to extend the holidays for another week or so by getting a cushy few days off work.

NPHET most likely did'nt have the smarts to indulge in a bit of oul "Modellin" on this .

Those of us who do actually labour at the coal-face will know,only too well,of the types now angling for a bit of Covid scrip to avail of the Social Welfare's largesse.

It's all about the Money-follow it !!

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118411780#Comment_118411780

they are responsible adults who are taking personal responsibility and getting themselves tested.

they don't want to be off work but understand that if that is what is required then that is what is required.

all they are doing is doing their bit and are insuring nphet and the public are getting the true picture.

this is the same country as it has been for a long time, where the majority aren't buying what you are selling.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412541#Comment_118412541

Some people think we're going into lockdown, some think we're getting more restrictions, others think it'll stay the same and yet others think it'll have eased up. The reality is, no one knows because, as usual, we don't know what the criteria is for increasing or decreasing restrictions.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412594#Comment_118412594

You're bringing back India all the time to further your argument. But its not really backed up by any data.

India population 1.38 billion. Ireland 5 million. Factor 276.

India cases to date 35m - translated to IE 126k - we actually have 845k

India deaths to date 482k - translated to IE 1746 - we actually have 5900

India daily deaths at peak 5k - translated to IE 18 - we actually have 50

India vaccination rate around 50% give or take today. When they had their big wave it was under 10%.

This their case curve.

(Just keeping you honest)

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412594#Comment_118412594

Utter idiocy, and still no criticism of the Great Barrington Declaration.

If you are happy supporting shady right wing libertarian groups that are big on climate change denial

I hate to break this to you, but people can actually go to the site, read the articles themselves, and see that they're not "big on climate change denial". Just a bit more nuanced than wanting to give extinction rebellion the return to the dark ages that their death cult lusts after. Not that their articles on climate change are related in any way to the GBD and their

I'm also not going to feel any way about supporting anything based on the hyperventilating judgment of a left-wing extremist authoritarian on an internet forum. Sorry, not sorry.

you believe their study into sweatshops was for the good of those slaving in them

You have piss poor reading comprehension and a knack for signalling virtue without any consideration for the consequences of your desires. Close all the sweat shops and **** the poor brown people who'll be left to starve. Lockdown everything and **** the collateral missed cancer diagnoses, increase ischemic events, mental health problems, addictions and deaths.

Bit of a pattern there.

India with disastrous results from deaths due to their population believing it.

India has 346 deaths per million population from covid, compared to Ireland's 1,186 deaths per million population.

Dempo1

Well well, Surprise, Surprise, ASTI proposing a delayed, staggered reopening of schools , stating it would be an unacceptable risk without additional safety measures put in place .

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118412754#Comment_118412754

there is no rife stigmatisation in irish society surrounding covid, unless you are referring to conspiricy theorists and those who refuse to get vaccinated, who quite frankly deserve no sympathy as they have been trying to hold the country to ransom so deserve to be encouraged to get on the right track.

LOL

"There is no rife stigmatisation in Irish society... here is some rank stigmatisation to prove it!"

You have to be a troll.