Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

MOR316

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Romanians, a great bunch of lads.

"HAGI!!! Where will he spring from next? Haha"

CruelSummer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s the law as far as I am aware.

???

Can you answer the question? Do you support this measure? Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine at Dublin airport?

Zebra3

Sammy2012 wrote: »

A miserable evening out now and so many places are empty.

That’s odd!! We were told on here yesterday that the hospitality industry (despite so many of their businesses still actually closed!) was doing a roaring trade!!!

CruelSummer

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

That’s completely beside the point

O Leary has been an absolute cretin for the entirety of the pandemic

Don’t be naive.

He cares about one thing. Ryanair profits.

Thankfully most ppl see through his agenda

So…because you say O’Leary has been a ‘cretin’ for this pandemic…for questioning the Government & comparing our response to others. I should believe you. Ya sure, you’ll have to stick to the Nphet /George Lee/ RTÉ worshippers for that one. They’ll prob believe you because you used the words ‘cretin’ & ‘profits’.

DarkJager21

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Zebra3

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Increased chance of pubs going out of business maybe.

Indoor hospitality in hotel, good.

Indoor hospitality in a pub, evil.

Archeron

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? .

It's given George Lee the opportunity to masturbate on live tv again while talking about a tsunami of destruction. There's that.

Multipass

Edz87 wrote: »

My wife and daughter are off to see granny and grandad in Italy today for the first time in a year.

Thank you Ryanair

I bought tickets yesterday for less than the bus fare to my nearest town. Michael O’Leary be praised!

agoodpunt

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can you answer the question? Do you support this measure? Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine at Dublin airport?

Facile comments troll, dosent ans anyone hit the ignore

normanoffside

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Given that we have some of the highest levels of infection in Europe, I would say so.
Keeping things closed is probably creating even more cases at this stage

MOR316

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Serious question - what has been gained by delaying the reopening? I’d bet nothing at all. What they have done is piss off the majority of people and potentially broken any compliance the younger cohorts might have. I’d wager there are plenty of house parties up and down the country right now as a result that are more of a spread threat than any pub could ever hope to be.

Seriously, no good!

I know the hospitality sector needed a decision but, for Government and NPHET to do it within less than 24 hours, on dodgy modelling (it is, don't try to deny it) is ridiculous!

If that's what NPHET wanted to present, you find a way to work together, long before this week, to open businesses up and to help the hospitality and entertainment sectors, whilst helping people who work from home, get back into office.

If they came out with a clear and concise plan, all of this would have been avoided. No hard feelings, it has to be done.
The introduction of antigen testing would have eased the mood a lot too...Making people feel united and part of Europe...
If things seem to start to go bad, you ease back on certain sectors. It's understandable. It hurts but, it would be understandable

That's the actions of a strong Government.

But no... In my opinion
Controversial as it sounds, it doesn't suit Cillian De Gascun to have that testing introduced. Tony is 100% using this to further his agenda on a change of culture, as he said in 2010 and "anything to reduce the consumption of alcohol" as he said in January.
Nolan's models are ridiculous.
There is no questioning of NPHET so it makes the Government look weak, as they openly admit and accept anything "the CMO tells us" so it feeds into public negativity and here we are.

Basically, no matter where anyone's loyalty stands, this is a massive **** show! It's only going to be rinse and repeat from here on in.

If people want to deny it, good on them but, doesn't change the fact that in August, in October, in January, that poxbottle will be sat in front of a camera, saying, "But, we're not there yet"

DarkJager21

normanoffside wrote: »

Given that we have some of the highest levels of infection in Europe, I would say so.
Keeping things closed is probably creating even more cases at this stage

Cases mean nothing, there is practically nobody in hospital which is the main metric we should be looking at

normanoffside

DarkJager21 wrote: »

Cases mean nothing, there is practically nobody in hospital which is the main metric we should be looking at

Tell that to Tony

Mullaghteelin

suicide_circus wrote: »

At what point does it become reasonable to doubt official numbers?

When was it ever reasonable to accept official numbers at face value? There should always be room for questioning and critiquing, and allowing second opinions.
Ireland used to have a culture of never questioning authority figures, whether they be doctors priests or guards. It seems we may still be like that.

maude6868

Deleted User wrote: »

The Romanians, a great bunch of lads.

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

gozunda

MOH wrote: »

I ignored the question because I don't think that? Why do you think the sky is purple?

Because it was genuine question based on what you stated previously. But if you don't wish to answer no problem

MOH wrote: »

As to your question and to the graph showing case numbers "going up and down by day"
No, the daily graph just illustrates what cases happened to be counted on a particular day. It's know to fluctuate anyway since there tend to be higher and lower numbers of tests on particular days of the week.

Yes it does fluctuate. And those figures have been fluctuating up and down close to the same levels for months now. You'd expect for the numbers to have tailed off into the 100s or lower but they haven't

MOH wrote: »

And relative to what? They're a lot lower than they were before we had identified any Delta cases.

I already highlighted that. So whats keeping them up?

MOH wrote: »

Nice Tony Holohan move though. When most of the metrics don't agree with your message, pull another one out of your ass. 7-day average, 14-day average, current active cases, deaths, hospitalisations all apparently steadily decreased while Delta went from 0-55%.

Any half knowledgable person knows that our case numbers have come down from dramatic highs in January and February and have been seesawing ever since. Delta is relatively new and so far is increasing but as yet we've yet to see to dramatically push up numbers. And whilst Delta case numbers are rising we know the vaccination rate has also been steadily rising.

MOH wrote: »

I really think you're just trolling at this stage.
So pointing out the NPHET and a (not some) politician warned that the Alpha variant would make it very hard to keep cases below 500 is somehow an out of context rant, just because Alpha was superseded by another variant which should be pushing cases even higher?

We can all make the same type of puerile accusations. But let's keep this out of the sewer just for the moment. But yes jumping in and out of timeframes outside that relevant to Delta is of little use. Abd tbh estimates and projections are not data. But I think most people know that.

So 70% of our cases are Delta yet that's somehow not the prevailing variant?
I'm genuinely confused.

You better have a word with De Gascun then.

MOH wrote: »

Where are you getting that idea from?
You posted an RTE article and I pointed out that it quite clearly manipulates data.
I think you're trying to obfuscate facts because you're jumping through hoops to deliberately ignore the fact the most of the regularly used metrics dropped significantly between the time Delta entered the country and the time Tony sent his letter of doom. Which was based on data to that point.

I'm just trying to explain the anomaly of numbers steadily dropping over a period when they shouldn't have been, since the deputy CMO had warned that they'd remain high due to a variant which in the meantime was superseded by an even worse one.

I know metrics have dropped and yet our case numbers remain high (and yes I know some will say " who the fuk cares or wtte). The metrics dropped for two reasons 1. Vaccinations 2. Restrictions

The RTE article was linked primarily for the detail the evolution of the Delta variant here.

And yet you took that article and came up with the frankly bizarre idea imho that they were trying to manipulate data and "instill fear". Regardless of the fact the bit you alluded to was
atrociously badly written and indeed buried near the bottom of the a rather nerdy article where I guarantee very few even read it. If I wished to instill fear I think most could do hell of a lot better.

MOH wrote: »

I don't think there's any conspiracy, I think they're panicking. I think the daily case numbers have possibly been massively understated, and that they believe that. I think they were struggling anyway to get a complete picture of the situation after the hack, and Delta's given them a new problem. I think a lot more people have it, but are either mistaking it for hay fever, or vaccine side effects, or simply having much milder symptoms, and not bothering getting tested. I think they're terrified that it's already that widespread and if it starts hitting the older cohort who aren't yet fully vaccinated, we could see a lot of deaths very quickly.

Obviously that's all just wild speculation. But if that was the case and they just came out and said that, I'd obviously have no problem with delaying reopening while they finished the vaccinations. But they wouldn't, because admitting they don't actually know what's going on wouldn't look very competent.

That's about as far as I go on the conspiracy theory front with NPHET and the government.

You know what thats fair enough. I dont believe that is the case but Im sure we can agree to disagree.

Galwayguy35

RTE have George Lee back on a daily basis after a few months off to spread doom and gloom.

agoodpunt

maude6868 wrote: »

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

Low take up in romania and they have indoor dining opposite of here

JRant

maude6868 wrote: »

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

The heard about the hurricane of destruction coming our way.

Beechwoodspark

CruelSummer wrote: »

Can you answer the question? Do you support this measure? Fully vaccinated EU citizens being threatened with mandatory hotel quarantine at Dublin airport?

Hey cruel

If it is the law then the officers were obliged to carry out their duties

The politicians can change the law...

Personally - as far as I know- even a double vaccinated person can spread delta

Someone might confirm that??

lawrencesummers

maude6868 wrote: »

Why is it that they don't want the vaccines?

They probably do but just feel sorry for us and our third world health system.

JRant

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Hey cruel

If it is the law then the officers were obliged to carry out their duties

The politicians can change the law...

Personally - as far as I know- even a double vaccinated person can spread delta

Someone might confirm that??

An unvaccinated person is like Dairygold straight from the fridge, it'll spread easily.

A vaccinated person is like Kerrygold straight from the fridge, it's a nightmare to spread.

Ya see, unvaccinated = Dairygold, vaccinated = Kerrygold. Simples.

I like Michael O'Leary's line, "In fairness to NPHET, their job is to keep us locked down as long as possible".

He then goes on to argue what most of us have argued here: that government should not focus on NPHET, but to instead take a broader approach to evidence and society / comparisons with other EU countries, and not just the terminal risks ventilated by the NPHET organism.

facehugger99

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I like Michael O'Leary's line, "In fairness to NPHET, their job is to keep us locked down as long as possible".

He then goes on to argue what most of us have argued here: that government should not focus on NPHET, but to instead take a broader approach to evidence and society / comparisons with other EU countries, and not just the terminal risks ventilated by the NPHET organism.

He's dead right.

Much as I despise Holohan, he is being allowed to dictate policy by the weakest politicians in the history of the state.

The total abdication of responsibility has been absolutely shameful to watch.

As an electorate, we have reaped what we sowed. A bunch of local-issue gombeens without a backbone between them.

We will pay a very heavy price for this in the coming years.

lawrencesummers

JRant wrote: »

An unvaccinated person is like Dairygold straight from the fridge, it'll spread easily.

A vaccinated person is like Kerrygold straight from the fridge, it's a nightmare to spread.

Ya see, unvaccinated = Dairygold, vaccinated = Kerrygold. Simples.

Does that make the fridge NEPHT?

Because if it is the fridge is broken and the butter will be like cream in no time.

lawrencesummers

facehugger99 wrote: »

He's dead right.

Much as I despise Holohan, he is being allowed to dictate policy by the weakest politicians in the history of the state.

The total abdication of responsibility has been absolutely shameful to watch.

As an electorate, we have reaped what we sowed. A bunch of local-issue gombeens without a backbone between them.

We will pay a very heavy price for this in the coming years.

It’s a valid point, if Holohan didn’t advise what the worst case scenario could be then he wouldn’t be doing his job.

It’s just that the government are happy to implement restrictions based on his medical analysis and stand back while a log of the population blame nephet for those restrictions.

JRant

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Does that make the fridge NEPHT?

Because if it is the fridge is broken and the butter will be like cream in no time.

Not on your Nelly.

Zebra3

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I like Michael O'Leary's line, "In fairness to NPHET, their job is to keep us locked down as long as possible".

He then goes on to argue what most of us have argued here: that government should not focus on NPHET, but to instead take a broader approach to evidence and society / comparisons with other EU countries, and not just the terminal risks ventilated by the NPHET organism.

Very difficult to argue with that.

It really looks like we need a second opinion when what’s been given here looks so different to so much of the rest of Europe.

As we live in a democracy, members of NPHET would have no objection to this, right?

Allinall

Zebra3 wrote: »

Very difficult to argue with that.

It really looks like we need a second opinion when what’s been given here looks so different to so much of the rest of Europe.

As we live in a democracy, members of NPHET would have no objection to this, right?

We already have a plethora of opinions from all the experts on Boards.
Is that not enough?

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In a much earlier iteration of this thread, I recounted the case of a family I know who had to seek legal advice to get 'Covid 19' removed as cause of death from their middle-aged father's death certificate. The father was overrun with cancer and in his last visit with the consultant had been given a matter of weeks to live. Sure as such, he passed within weeks as at least 4 different cancers spread throughout his body. In a postmortem, he tested positive for Covid 19 and all of a sudden cancer(s) didn't matter.

That was a year ago. Ever since then I've doubted official figures. Plus, never mind my anecdotal account - It's almost a year to the day since we had the findings of a HIQA report about the likely overestimation of Covid 19 deaths up to that point. It was our government's first admission of 'Died of Covid/Died with Covid' not making a difference to the official figures, as Varadkar commented...



Many people in Ireland have unfortunately succumbed to this virus, but not 5,000 thankfully. As our Tánaiste admitted a year ago, the numbers are skewed.

Thankfully overall we have had one of the lowest death rates when listed against our closest European neighbours and thatc by quite a significant factor. Looking at the data I dont believe that's an underestimation.