Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

Is there a list of people's rights somewhere that I could have a look at? People seem to have a misguided notion about what their 'rights' are.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454291#Comment_118454291

Why don’t you list the misguided notions that people have about “rights” then?

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454291#Comment_118454291

This can’t be a serious post. Just give up on all your rights then none of them are being infringed. Simple!

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454291#Comment_118454291

You could just google "human rights in Ireland" if you really wanted to, there are plenty of references to the Irish constitution online.

The right to bodily integrity is one of them, surprised you didn't know about it after the "Repeal the 8th" campaign.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454291#Comment_118454291

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454291#Comment_118454291

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/en.cons.pdf

Here ya go Pen.

P152 onwards deals with personal rights.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454291#Comment_118454291

If you need a list of your rights then they aren't rights but privileges granted by the state.

A person should demand their rights . Have standards.

darconio

I can't believe there is people still convinced that they are going to remove the covid cert. I posted an article yesterday that Ireland has already secured a contract with Pfizer to provide enough jabs for the next 2 years/2 rounds for the whole population (unvaccinated included): how are they going to keep track of how many jabs each one of us has received?

bokale

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454844#Comment_118454844

I presume its all in a database. Or maybe I'm not understanding your question?

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454291#Comment_118454291

It depends so strongly on personal philosophy that it would be near impossible to have one list of rights.

If you believe in a sort of Lockean theory of natural, inalienable rights (as I do), then ostensibly afforded legal "rights" are irrelevant to them. Under such a philosophy, laws (and the governments that create them) can be acting unjustly by abrogating or attempting to abrogate inalienable rights.

For example, I believe that the inalienable right to freedom of movement is fundamental with very few exceptions. When the Irish government instituted legislation to abrogate that right under the justification of Covid and restrict people's movement to within 2km of their home, that right didn't disappear—(I believe) it was being unjustly infringed upon by an overreaching government.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454844#Comment_118454844

As stated, in a database, one line of one database table for each of us to be precise, all organised by PPSN! As for the vaccine contracts well, they are just orders that show advance planning. 2m flu shots were ordered this year, I believe.

Penfailed

Maybe this would be easier - what 'human rights' have you lost?

@TomTomTim ? Care to answer? Anyone? I'm not looking for an argument, I'm just very curious.

aidoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454082#Comment_118454082

Here's hoping they stick to the January 30th deadline.

It'll be interesting to hear an argument for the retention of domestic passes when this currently wave passes.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455083#Comment_118455083

I'd be interested in hearing the official argument for their introduction in the first place.

aidoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455120#Comment_118455120

Good point. I recall it was argued at the time that vaccines were somewhere between 60-90% effective at blocking viral transmission (someone will be along now to lie and tell me the vaccines were never developed to block transmission of course).

As soon as it became clear that vaccines do not reduce transmission the domestic passes should've been dropped. Then again, that would almost be an admission by the government that the coercion and emotional manipulation (e.g. do it to protect others) they employed to vaccinate young healthy people was a complete lie. A lie that I and many others fell for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454513#Comment_118454513

1 all citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law. this shall not be held to mean that the state shall not in its enactments have due regard to differences of capacity, physical and moral, and of social function. 

4 1° no citizen shall be deprived of his personal liberty save in accordance with law. 

i the right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions. the education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the state shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the state.

ii the right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms. Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either house of the oireachtas.

Sounds like the constitution is more malleable than I suspected and far from exceeding constitutional remit during the pandemic, they have actually held off on some of what they could have done

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455177#Comment_118455177

Good point. I recall it was argued at the time that vaccines were somewhere between 60-90% effective at blocking viral transmission (someone will be along now to lie and tell me the vaccines were never developed to block transmission of course).

It was clear in the Autumn that this was the case. I raised this point on various platforms and the majority of the time my point was deleted.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455208#Comment_118455208

As with all things in the Constitution it really comes down to interpretation and existing case law. In a way, nothing us against the Constitution until it is held up in the courts.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455208#Comment_118455208

i covers sedition - you can't start a radio station calling for the overthrow of the government

ii covers banning protests, which did happen here within the last 2 years and people were arrested for protesting

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455177#Comment_118455177

Well, vaccines do reduce transmission (that seems to be one of the most repeated wrong/alternative facts on this thread, so not surprised to see other posters parrot it), the main reason for the certs is to keep the unvaccinated away from locations where they are likely to get infected and end up hospitalised and that worked pretty well for Delta.

With Omicron, all that maths changes and the certs shouldn't be needed anymore internally, the hospitalisation risk seems to be substantially lower and if the current wave abates, there's no reason they need to be kept.

But, what needs to be watched is economics, it was posted a few pages ago, but it's cheaper to run a vaccinated population, cost of care is less, less health capacity needed, that may be one of the main future drivers of policy, also with 94% vaccinated and a crazy high uptake in teenagers (will see if children get above 50%) none of the parties really need to care about votes from the disaffected, it's not as big an issue and doesn't impact as many as things like water charges did. A single issue candidate in the USA might make some hay with it (but the GOP have it locked in over there) in Ireland, people want roads and hospitals and low taxes.

Per Darconio, the EU has a multi year agreement with multiple vaccine companies, they don't plan to be surprised by a new virus in the future, the contracts have the option not to be taken up, but unless there's a drastic change, there will be annual boosters, the vulnerable might even get it twice a year.

And Foxsake had such a reasonable post until the veil slipped about the vaccine changing the body (which is true as it aids the immune system to learn about a new virus, but I would win a bet that you think it's something more nefarious than that despite all evidence to the contrary).

bokale

Why are the hospitality groups so quiet? Seems odd.

PTH2009

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0111/1272977-south-african-clinical-trials/

NPHET will see this and want us to wait the period out regarding restrictions

BuildTheWall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455542#Comment_118455542

Long for the days when a mild cold was going around the advice was two paracetamol and a lemsip, not restricting major portions of the economy for months on end.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455007#Comment_118455007

in addition to growleaves post , the right to travel. the 5k and 4k fine for leaving the state without due reason and all that.

The notion that one must obtain the approval of a garda on their comings and goings outside of the home.

all that jazz.

you spent a life time arguing on the definition of lockdown so no doubt you'll argue no human rights were harmed during the experiment.

But it is what it is

also let us not forget the idea was floated that the garda were to be allowed enter a home to count the occupants.

or national hero Senator Ollie Crowe who wanted the army on the streets.

Sure they didn't actually happen and Thankfully we didn't go full retard

but best always keep it in mind.

aziz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455525#Comment_118455525

Getting plenty in government grants

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455382#Comment_118455382

And Foxsake had such a reasonable post until the veil slipped about the vaccine changing the body (which is true as it aids the immune system to learn about a new virus, but I would win a bet that you think it's something more nefarious than that despite all evidence to the contrary).

That's unfair comment.

I clearly said that is neither good nor bad - I was clear not to pass judgement on the vaccine being good or bad.

my words

Ireland took a vaccine (at a 94% rate) which changes your body (I mean that in good or bad terms )

I've been frank in saying everybody who wants to take it should. I do have misgiving about the long term implications but so do my peers who rushed to take it. The risk/reward ratio etc..

It was a reasonable point.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455218#Comment_118455218

since day 1 there has been a continual watering down of the effects of the vaccines. The vaccines trial data has to be suspect.

The claims that testing was a robust as a vaccine 10years in the making are looking weak as piss now.

interestingly while the initially claimed powers of the vaccines waned the demand for everybody to take them increased.

weird.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455525#Comment_118455525

last year I was getting annoyed on their behalf, they dont seem to care so why should I? at least there were a few bolshi gym owners that put up a bit of a protest.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455604#Comment_118455604

Currently? Anything happening at the moment?

Penfailed

Restrictions on large scale outdoor events in Scotland being lifted from Monday. Soccer and rugby fans back to full stadia again.