Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462955#Comment_118462955

Seemingly Golfgate trial won't be resuming till next month

irishgeo

Next meeting of nphet is the 20th of January according to the article I read. Easing of restrictions based on that.

Captain_Crash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462447#Comment_118462447

Here’s one for ya, I had some sinus issues towards the end of last year and my GP gave me a letter exempting me from wearing a mask. Continued to wear one for a bit as I didn’t think it was worth the hassle explaining anything. Then one day I was having a bit of trouble with the mask so said f**k it and took it off….. and since then not one person even looked at me crooked let alone said anything.

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463036#Comment_118463036

We all know whats coming then

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462447#Comment_118462447

I wear the mask at half mast... Look at all of my wonderful nose 🤣

I gotta wear a mask at work, company rules, doesn't mean I wear it "correctly" though.

I go along with the theatre so I can get money as those holidays I got vaccinated for won't pay for themselves.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463129#Comment_118463129

I think unless you're being belligerent about it, most people will just follow a policy of live and let live.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462202#Comment_118462202

Considering the patronising tone of your response I shouldn't answer a damn thing. "Finally I'm thinking a bit", "will you go down the avenues I have thought of", frankly if you want to insult me then just call me a dickhead and leave it at that, it would be more honest.

But as to your questions my initial response is to say, hang on, why exactly do I have to justify the removal of this restriction? It is far more logical that people have to justify its implementation. You have it completely backwards.

And I know you will say masks work, you said it numerous times, "we know they work". But its always an assumption without evidence, stated as a given that nobody is allowed to dispute, they work and thats that, don't question it.

But I look at 20000 cases daily, all those months we were perfectly fine without masks, the fact that mask wearing countries have similar cases to those without masks and I say, "What exactly is working here?"

Now you will say "The evidence is all out there, go do some research, they work and thats that". Go on.

You are asking me to add weight to the argument that there are costs associated with mask wearing after I listed some quite obvious detrimental effects, but I don't need some randomer to lead me down an avenue to enlightenment, I could expand the argument if I wanted to. But why am I arguing that point when I still haven't been convinced that the current scenario has any benefits worth a damn?

And that will be the end of that since this is off topic. Call me a dickhead and leave it there.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458602#Comment_118458602

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118457452#Comment_118457452

The relevant Minister could use the EMERGENCY 😱 !! legislation to good effect by proscribing the likes of ISAG and interning it's mouthpieces to protect ordinary citizens from their dangerous nonsense.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458781#Comment_118458781

That is a very important point.

It is quite obvious that some of these types of poster have become more and more engaged with being seen & heard to support the "Authorities",even when that action cannot be borne out by events.

It is a form of neurosis which feeds upon itself,and tends to be totally unnoticed by the sufferer,but becomes VERY obvious to onlookers,often leading to self isolation and feelings of being abandoned by society as a whole.

It is a serious and potentially damaging outcome to almost 2 years of,what is now rapidly becoming recognised as manipulation and propaganda from coteries of people with agendas far beyond Public Health.

Sad,but very prevalent throughout modern day Ireland. ☹️

noraos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462449#Comment_118462449

Isolation starts from first date of symptoms.. and if no symptoms from first date of positive antigen, which should be the same day as we are to test when we have symptoms . Clise contacts will be sent antigen tests for free from hse website. But if none of that was done I would personally back date their isolation period from when you first saw the gastro issues.

I got my pcr result day 9 since symptoms, so I had only 1 day isolation left.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463464#Comment_118463464

It's condescending because your narrative has been the same from the beginning and hasn't changed as the pandemic has progressed, every country has put restrictions in place to various degrees to manage through the pandemic yet your reasons for dropping them are again nebulous and without evidence. Omicron (hopefully) changes the data and will allow restrictions to be dropped sooner than expected but your latest is to start claiming people have issues due to lack of smiles and being able to see facial cues and tics, if you are going to start claiming all sorts then you need to start bringing evidence accordingly (or not and continue being a hurler in the ditch).

Restrictions have saved lives, lockdowns saved lives, restrictions have kept the health system running since the vaccine rollout allowed lockdowns to end and restrictions to ease. Cases/hospitalisation/vaccination levels and deaths data all support the measures and show clear correlations (and there is an abundance of data here that's impossible to deny). Were they all implemented perfectly, no, I don't think so, but I don't think there is enough data available to do much better and every country is muddling through as best they can.

edit: my own feeling is that it would take a major incident, probably even worse than Palermo, before you would agree that lockdowns or restrictions were necessary, i.e. every response is to pretend the pandemic isn't having impact and we should get on with it and then looking for reasons why that should be the case, ignoring cases/hospitalisations/deaths etc.

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460122#Comment_118460122

Mentioning "Science" is quite apposite.

The South African Omicron experience and the manner of it's subsequent handling by the heavily Covid invested Western World,is quite revealing and,in time will hopefully be subject to deeper investigation.

Although the article is UK focused,the points stand for Ireland,all you have to do is see how both SAGE (UK) and NPHET (Irl) are flapping about ferociously as they strive to remain relevant in the minds of the General Public,thus ensuring a continuation of their funding and career progression goals. 😏

https://unherd.com/thepost/omicron-update-london-followed-gauteng-after-all/?mc_cid=fadf12124d&mc_eid=a11d6c084b

Now that the cases have peaked in London (since 23rd December in fact) and the hospital variables are in decline, it is possible to compare peak levels between London and Gauteng province in South Africa, where the Omicron wave began. There are very real differences between the two cities: Gauteng has relatively high prior infection levels and low vaccination rates, while London has lower prior infection rates and high vaccination rates. Gauteng has a younger population compared to London. Despite all this, the Case Fatality Rate (CFR) dropped 5-7-fold in both areas between Delta and Omicron.

From the very outset of the SA's experience,the Western World's Medical & Political elite along with it's hugely superior minded "Scientists" strove to downplay and undermine the bleedin'obvious outcomes in Gauteng.

It represented,to me,the very antithesis of what our Medical & Scientific professionals should have been doing,but instead chose not to,for fear of being the one's responsible for ending the Fear.

But across all of these measures, it is remarkable how small these differences are for two such different places on opposite sides of the world.

Just before 18 December 2021, when England was considering increasing restrictions from Plan B, SAGE warned that should the UK only persist with plan B, it could see 600-6,000 deaths per day. This works out at 0.9-9.0 deaths/100k. London appears to have peaked at a level of 0.17 deaths/100k which is 5 times lower than the lower bound and 50 times lower than the upper bound.

There's the value of a bit of good oul modellin for ya ?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463601#Comment_118463601

Seriously? The claim that people communicate non verbally is "claiming all sorts"? Claiming that masks are a litter problem needs more evidence? Sure thing sir.

I have to add though, this isn't the "latest" with the snide implication that came with it. Here for example is a post from October 2020 where I lamented being unable to see a smile. I might be an arsehole but I am consistent, at least allow me that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/114819408#Comment_114819408

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461343#Comment_118461343

Where is the Data Protection Commissioner in all of this ?

Ordinary people ,most of whom are not Data Security savvy,are reliant upon State Provided Protections to protect them from the Negligence of other branches of that same State !!

Perhaps it's time for a complaint on this very issue to be filed with the ODPC ?

AlekSmart

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462074#Comment_118462074

Sneering might be closer to reality ?

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461303#Comment_118461303

Except your example never happened. I do remember the one word 'Delta' response. I posted it myself.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463763#Comment_118463763

I could've sworn I saw that multiple times from a few different posters. Maybe I just imagined it though.

MizMix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463598#Comment_118463598

Thanks - we did get hse antigens but they were negative for the kids. My husbands pcr was positive despite numerous negative antigens so I’m assuming kids (or at Least the one with gastro issues ) will be positive. We got text today to bring them for a pcr (after not being able to get them tested Monday with us 🙄).

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463665#Comment_118463665

I didn't doubt it was a thing, I doubted that it's a good enough reason to ditch mask wearing during a pandemic and asked if you had any data that would show it's a good enough reason. Be evidence led!

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118461916#Comment_118461916

I can't multi quote on my phone but you can't be right Raind...someone posted half an hour before you that they won't even be relaxing restrictions at the end of the month...

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463601#Comment_118463601

Interesting take on the pandemic response. I would say though that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Have there been many studies to show how successful these restrictions/lockdowns have been?

The reason I ask is because they have been devastating to not only developed countries but also developing countries.

If we are going with the restrictions work narrative then let's see the data because all the pandemic response plans for the western world were binned in favour of a scorched earth approach.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463391#Comment_118463391

I don't but I'm all ears...?

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463774#Comment_118463774

Oh, it definitely happened multiple times, just not in response to your example.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463838#Comment_118463838

There has been numerous studies on the subject:

Ranking the effectiveness of worldwide COVID-19 government interventions | Nature Human Behaviour (one finding was the surface cleaning didn't make much difference, I mean, it's a good idea, just doesn't help much with SARS-COV2)

Interesting study that proposes that case rate dropping was linked to people locking themselves down during high case counts rather than the government mandated lockdowns:

Danish study suggests local lockdown had no effect on SARS-CoV-2 infection rate (news-medical.net)

Meta-analysis (this found that mask wearing led to a 45.7% reduction in mortalities among other findings):

Effectiveness of public health measures in reducing the incidence of covid-19, SARS-CoV-2 transmission, and covid-19 mortality: systematic review and meta-analysis | The BMJ

There's loads more (hence my abundance of data comment).

ElTel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463640#Comment_118463640

Great post.

I'm still optimistic they'll see sense!!!!!

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463872#Comment_118463872

Oh I see you're just being your self.

Obviously my parody wasn't a literal recounting. Thanks for the mind-mush. Happy Wednesday.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463898#Comment_118463898

I had a quick skim through those 3 studies but will spend some time reading them later.

First one mentions modelling a lot which instantly gets my bullshīt radar on high alert.

The second one is interesting and is probably one of the few controlled studies looked at. It's been established now that the people are ahead of the measures almost all the time, whether it's limiting or increasing contact with others.

Also agree that clear governmemt communications is also another important driver in bringing numbers down, see the point above.

On that last study, does anyone actually believe masks reduce covid mortality by 45%, honestly?

TalleyRand83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463665#Comment_118463665

Here is a little observation, on the Oct 2020 thread you linked here ⬆️ Notice the lack of posts from the religious posters on all things covid doom? None of that mob had one thing to say in that thread, plenty to say in everything and anything else covid but when it comes to posting in that thread……nothing, nada and do you know what? I knew I wouldn’t find certain posters respond when I had a scan back……does that tell you anything about certain mindsets of some fanatic posters here?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118464715#Comment_118464715

These are peer reviewed papers, there are many more (if you look into the meta-analysis sources in particular), as you said, if you're going to question the data, bring evidence.

TalleyRand83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459700#Comment_118459700

You’re a very condescending arrogant poster, did you a do a 6 week course on vaccines or something?

Drop the houlier than thou / smartest person in the room. You and I are most certainly not the cleverest people here, at least I’m self aware enough to know it, which incidentally makes me smarter than you!