Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

MilkyToast

RTE patting themselves on the back for asking the HSE to make a distinction between "with" and "from" after TWO **** YEARS is some special sort of gaslighting bullshit.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118466656#Comment_118466656

Oh, that explains why the fully approved product to be labelled "Comirnaty" isn't being used in the US yet despite being approved months ago. only the supposedly the same but "legally distinct" EUA pfizer biontech label is available. Clever bastards these pharma companies.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468011#Comment_118468011

I find it strange how many dont understand that the "with not from" covid is a simple representation of the proportion of the population who have covid. If 10% of the population have covid, you would expect 10% of the hospital admissions for all other causes to have incidental covid. Similarly you would would only expect 1% of the population to have incidental covid when 1% of the population have covid. So it should be a surprise to no one when we have 20k plus cases a day that the proportion of incidental admissions goes up.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467484#Comment_118467484

Why would he?

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468404#Comment_118468404

It's not a simple representation of the proportion of the population who have covid because we're not just talking about admissions. If there is a covid outbreak in a hospital, either because of cross contamination or a missed infection, then it will spread within that facility and infect more people such that the number of people "with" rather than "from" covid ends up higher than in the general population where people aren't in close quarters a couple of hundred people at a time 24/7. We know this from the (less transmissible) norovirus outbreaks that happen in hospitals every year.

And regardless of how strange you find it, there are a large number of people who don't understand that there is a "with not from" distinction, and our national media patting themselves on the back for asking about it after two years is **** ridiculous.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468011#Comment_118468011

But what difference does it make though ? (genuinely asking, as I've wondered for months and just can't logically see it)

If someone in hospital has COVID, they need to be isolated and dealt with differently. If the HSE have XX amount of "beds" (for want of a better phrase) that are suitable for a COVID positive patient, available, and lets say there's 1,000 of them in use today, leaving whatever the balance is, still available. It doesn't really matter how or why someone in one of these beds got it, they're still using up a finite COVID resource. Surely that's the whole point, that the HSE can cope with whatever the number is of COVID positive patients, and at a point in time there's an amount if these being used up.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468522#Comment_118468522

Fundamentally, we are all having our lives affected in order to help stop people dying from covid.

If they are not dying from covid, but in fact are dying from something else, then that is extremely relevant.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468522#Comment_118468522

The difference it makes is the level of fear that people have about Covid, which has an impact on their mental wellbeing, their standard of living and (most likely the reason it has been the ignored elephant in the room for so long) people's willingness to comply with various restrictions.

If 40% of people in hospital with covid are there with incidental cases after going in for other reasons, that is a very different thing to 99% of people being there on supportive oxygen because of severe covid pneumonia.

If you are happy with the bare minimum "people in hospital with covid" number, good for you. But this country is ours, the health service is paid for by us, this government is elected to represent us, and we have a right to know the full picture when we are living under emergency legislation and diktats.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468134#Comment_118468134

The FDA controls all of that very closely, they still refer to it using the old name in their literature but specify that the marketing name is Comirnaty, no "clever bastards" involved at all.

Comirnaty and Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine | FDA

Not sure if they have to re-label existing stocks in storage (obviously it couldn't be done for those already distributed), but legally, they'll be the same.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468666#Comment_118468666

They arent the same legally. The FDA approval explicitly states that they are "legally distinct". The ones labelled as pfizer biontech are still under an EUA and therefore pfizer are not subject to liabilty for those (?). See page 2 footnote 8 here.

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download

Unfortunately (or fortunately for pfizer), the fda also stated that there are insufficient stocks of the Comirnaty one available for use but sufficient amounts of pfizer biontech. Seems like a ploy to evade liability to me but maybe I'm too cynical.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468580#Comment_118468580

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not sure it ultimately matters though. It might be a very different thing on an individual level, but if we go back to the original "flatten the curve" graph/mantra of 2020, I know some might ridicule it etc, but was it ever really about stopping deaths or illnesses per se ? from vague memory it was as much about spreading them out over a longer timeframe so the capacity of the hospitals wasn't breached at any one point in time.

I mean hypothetically if we've the ability to deal with 2,000 covid positive patients (total guess, no idea what the actual number is) in our hospitals, and 1,800 are there one day, does it matter how they got there ? They're still there and still need to be isolated and dealt with differently than a non covid positive person who can be on a regular ward. That's really all the hospitals number is IMO, a measure of usage of a given, limited, resource.

Of course, I don't buy the whole "fear" narrative, so there's that too I guess, but can readily see your point about the compliance with restrictions angle even if I don't agree with it.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468895#Comment_118468895

I understand why you think it doesn't matter.

I think you are wrong.

I'm not trying to convince you to agree with me.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468895#Comment_118468895

If we're not afraid then why have we eradicated our culture and destroyed our way of life? Especially since we're also lectured to that 'nobody' is in favour of these restrictions. No one is in favour of them - no one! - but they have to go on continuously for years (soon to become year three) and posters like yourself will spend those years rebutting anyone who argues for their repeal in a sort of ping-pong debate that's never resolved.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468838#Comment_118468838

I think I see that bit here, do they have to have separate vials for the non-Comirnaty use cases? (under 16) or can they use Comirnaty vials everywhere? The expiry date should see them moved on relatively quickly (i.e. 6 months from the first Comirnaty vials appearing in the US)

COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is licensed for individuals 16 years of age and older. There remains, however, a significant amount of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine that was manufactured and labeled in accordance with this emergency use authorization. The authorization remains in place with respect to the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine for this population.

brickster69

Draghistan to fine anyone 50+ 100 Euro who has not has had a booster by 15th June

https://www.thelocal.it/20220113/over-50s-in-italy-without-covid-booster-face-100-euro-fine/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468991#Comment_118468991

None of the vials are labeled Comirnaty, that's the point. No one I know has received that, even as recently as December. It is still labelled pfizer biontech (these are adults but pretty sure 12-16 use the same vials as 16+ for now but they won't be able to use comirnaty for that age group when it is available). Interesting about the expiry dates. Surely we should be seeing some comirnaty labelled products by now in that case?

All I can find is this quote

"Given the current ongoing pandemic, a gradual transition to new labeling with the COMIRNATY brand name will occur at a later date."

There must be a reason they are delaying this, they arent stupid and I'm sure its for liability reasons.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468926#Comment_118468926

We've eradicated our culture and destroyed our way of life now?! Fúck. Nobody told me.

TomTomTim

A bit late in the game for sorrys, but it's better than nothing, and more than we will ever see from our own media class

https://twitter.com/JanGold_/status/1480886686045384706

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468418#Comment_118468418

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468926#Comment_118468926

".....posters like yourself will spend those years rebutting......" WTF ?? Get a grip. What am I rebutting ? I asked a poster a question and we have different opinions, and that's ok. Is debate now only a one way thing on here ? I don't really give a flying f--k what anyone on Boards argues for, its completely meaningless, I thought it was a place for a bit of debate and exchange of views and very occasionally gaining some interesting information or opinion.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469077#Comment_118469077

Head in the sand post of the day.

It’s going to take a lot of time to deprogramme people after this (probably after booster 25) I fear many are permanently damaged and I’d rather not think what the effects will be on children.

I hope I’m wrong but we could be looking at a generation of neurotic hypochondriacs.

Someone I know who used to be perfectly sane, well balanced and intelligent was giving out stink the other day about the way Premier League footballers celebrate a goal, imagine being that ****ed up!

Maybe Gary Lineker will announce ‘socially distanced goal of month’?

He is not an isolated case and there are thousands and thousands of loonies like him.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469171#Comment_118469171

Getting angry about a post and posting that anger is self defeating. It means you have...lost. At least that is how i see it. Just let it go. There is no headmaster tut tutting and sending anyone to the corner. It looks like a newby mistake. Dont get angry, ignore and move on.😺

Stormyteacup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468895#Comment_118468895

Wait a sec - now you’re using ‘flatten the curve’ to actually mean flatten the curve and spread the level of illness and death, not prevent it?

That’s your ‘vague memory’ from 2020? So when we had close to zero in hospital positive with Covid and a handful of cases we were still flattening the curve?

High hospital numbers - need to flatten the curve to protect hospitals. Very low hospital numbers - need to, em, flatten that curve with restrictions through the Summer months.

”..but was it ever about really about stopping deaths or illnesses per se”.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469271#Comment_118469271

I said newby but you are obviously not w over 5000 posts. Strange..

MOR316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469079#Comment_118469079

Never getting that from Richard Chambers...

Well, maybe in his next book that I'm sure will be out for the next Christmas market.

Absolute cretin!

brickster69

Covid passports were introduced in July in France. It really seems to be doing a grand job protecting the great unwashed going to hospital.

Penfailed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469236#Comment_118469236

Cop on. None of what you have described is an eradication of culture and destroying our way of life. It's pure hyperbole. It's bullshíte.

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468418#Comment_118468418

Jesus fcuking Christ! Why would he!!?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469073#Comment_118469073

I don't think that would be the reason, they could have continued existing as was, same as Moderna and Janssen, and not gone for full approval, I guess Europe leads the way in this area and everyone was giving out about the EMA being too slow :)

Hey boy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469476#Comment_118469476

I’m wondering what normal life was like for you before covid if that is truly what you think.

I remember, for example, at one stage something like 13 beaches in Donegal were closed to the public due to covid!

You must love the restrictions - good for you but some of the rest of us want to move on. You can choose to continue mask wearing, not going out to pubs after 8pm etc if you want.

You do remember having the freedom to choose I hope.